Project M Social Thread

[Roxas215]

After watching the trailer Project M is going to be amazing. I can't wait to play zss

 

[DarkDragoon]

I think trying to "Melee-ify" Snake would be a big mistake. Even if his game is to camp and then kill when they get to the right percentage, he now has to deal with other characters catching up to him and (I assume) fastfaller comboing him. I really don't think a campy character would ruin the game, especially if he's mid-tier.

XD master: Snake's ground game is ridiculous right now with the addition of a wave dash. Really, I'm not sure what to do with him...

Right now he's Snake+ with more gravity.. which is to say that his overall metagame is still very similar to Brawl's zone with projectiles until kill with a tilt / bair/ uair. Not necessarily very "melee" but maybe that's not a problem, I dunno.

I'm sure MuBa will have plenty of ideas.

Snake is versatile. He can do one or the other. Heck, so can Fox and Falco. Its just all about matchups/stages. If anything I would lower some KBG slightly on some of his killing moves, because the speed he can move and operate on the ground makes him a force to be reckoned with.

But hes one of the brawl characters that aren't centralized around something. Wolf WAS centralized around BAir/DSmash/Blaster, now he isn't, Olimar around Grabs->USmash, among others. We'd like to sponsor diversity and excitement. :3

-DD

 

[GP&B]

Debatable. Depends if you use Brawl's standard textures or not. Sure, they're more detailed than Melee's, but they are way too desaturated for a Nintendo game. Plus, Melee Falco's sexy Red Jacket.

This. I know a particular number of textures called the "FIXED" series that actually added some great color saturation to Mario, Luigi, Bowser, and Peach's main outfits. It looks really nice. Otherwise, I didn't like the duller, more "realistic" colors. Magic Armor Link or OoT Link texture > regular ol' Brawl Link textures (or Zero Link, but I'm really hoping we can get some developments on model alteration so we can get a true Zero). There's also a texture for SF:Assault Fox and Melee Fox as well as Melee Falco (plus, I do know that someone here is working on a Melee Falco model change) and Melee Falcon.

Melee's graphics may be dated, especially for the Gamecube but the color was good. Twilight Princess gives me the same feeling as Brawl, but even a bit more. If we had (decent) texture hacking for that, I'd saturate all of TP properly too.

 

[Team Giza]

Ideas for Snake:

1) Slow down start up for nades and then make some of his attacks have IASA frames that cancel into it. This can make it so it will be more useful to use varied tactics into camping.

2) Certain moves have IASA to set off the C4. This would make for very interesting combos.

 

[DarkDragoon]

Ideas for Snake:

1) Slow down start up for nades and then make some of his attacks have IASA frames that cancel into it. This can make it so it will be more useful to use varied tactics into camping.

2) Certain moves have IASA to set off the C4. This would make for very interesting combos.

Also, C4 explode on Snake's death. Strategy even in death!
-DD

 

[shanus]

I always wanted to be able to C4 stick out of things.

 

[MuBa]

Also, C4 explode on Snake's death. Strategy even in death!
-DD

What I would like to see is the land mine blowing up on Snake's death. That would be interesting.

 

[DarkDragoon]

What I would like to see is the land mine blowing up on Snake's death. That would be interesting.

>_> Landmine + C4 explode on Snake death then.
-DD

 

[BG3]

I think the hardest part about this is trying to make the game look like Melee. In Melee, the animation was so much more smoother and clear, but in Brawl, everything looks so huge and cartoony. Another thing that was mentioned earlier was that Melee's costumes are more saturated(IMO, this is exactly what makes Melee's costumes look better than Brawl's).

@Gamedominator: Can you show the FIXED costumes if you can?

 

[MuBa]

I would also like to see Snake be able to throw a grenade as an item when grenade is pulled out in the air or at LEAST be able to air dodge drop the grenade when in "grenade stance."

I think the hardest part about this is trying to make the game look like Melee. In Melee, the animation was so much more smoother and clear, but in Brawl, everything looks so huge and cartoony. Another thing that was mentioned earlier was that Melee's costumes are more saturated(IMO, this is exactly what makes Melee's costumes look better than Brawl's).

@Gamedominator: Can you show the FIXED costumes if you can?

We're making this game look like Melee in terms of physics, not color. Of course the shades of Brawl is much darker due to the nature of making them look a bit more realistic. But in terms of animation, as long as we're able to obtain the fast paced action and technicality that Melee offered I believe that should be sufficient enough for a successor.

 

[Sterowent]

i would hope those aren't the only steps planned towards changing the game's appearance.

graphics also include a few other important factors that i think deserve to be changed for this project, such as graphics for attacks. brawl made for a light show, but the explosive nature of melee and the campy form of 64's collision effects bring much needed character to this 'realism.' when an attack ends, i'd much rather have that character than some light show. the transparency through fire and electricity on hit was upped in brawl also, so models are more easily seen, but i don't know which way to go in that regard. the SFX has these problem too, actually, sacrificing the character of the sounds for more realistic tones.

another level of display is the ratio of characters and their hitboxes and then the battlegrounds. i don't like how brawl set things to have such small centralized play. that is, take a look at the trailer, the waveshine to be exact. that seem unusual that the model moves a lesser distance than melee's? the ratio between character hitbox and hurtbox and stage layout was wider, giving a delightful illusion that players could move across the stage at a rapid pace (the melee camera complemented this very well).

brawl ratios fill some of this gap, and i can't help but see this as a bit clunky and bulky. i hope this is changed before it is too late to do so...

 

[humble]

For snake, here are my ideas;

His utilt and ftilts hitboxes should be attached to his legs instead of randomly using the force to hit. However they should be faster to make up for it.

He should have a faster dash on the ground. His Fsmash should be sped up alot but weakened a bit. His Down-b should have super armor. His aerials should have less landing lag, so they have more uses. Grenade upon pulling goes into item holding animation, like links bombs as opposed to his current use.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Graphics aren't important at all. Gameplay is. Quit whining. -.o

Anyways, that trailer was pure gold. I haven't been this excited since...Hm. -_o

It'd be cool if we got other small teasers like this as time progresses. Great job so far guys. :3

 

[Sterowent]

graphics are important. besides, this is more than that.

 

[cubaisdeath]

why do graphics matter when you can just change them yourself? its not like its hard or anything lol

 

[DarkDragoon]

We have a DLC team as part of the WBR. There is more than likely to be a melee-themed skin pack at some point by the time this is released.
-DD

 

[Zodiac]

brawl made for a light show, but the explosive nature of melee and the campy form of 64's collision effects bring much needed character to this 'realism.' when an attack ends, i'd much rather have that character than some light show.

Yea I agree, I always felt brawl was way to flashy with its graphics.

 

[ShootingStars]

fix peach.. her dsmash was way nerfed in brawl

 

[RandomLax]

For snake, here are my ideas;

His utilt and ftilts hitboxes should be attached to his legs instead of randomly using the force to hit. However they should be faster to make up for it.

He should have a faster dash on the ground. His Fsmash should be sped up alot but weakened a bit. His Down-b should have super armor. His aerials should have less landing lag, so they have more uses. Grenade upon pulling goes into item holding animation, like links bombs as opposed to his current use.

For the tilts: this would probably make snakes go in for more close combat, but considering most snakes dont rely on the "random" hit frames and space properly this would probably be too big a buff depending on how much the move was sped up

for the dash : this seems unnecessary as a lot of his combo game revolves around being vertical or in the air and the dascus is already a quick form of movement for him,and with the addition of the agt (aerial glide toss) his mobility doesnt seem hindered in the least

for the smashes : this also requires elaboration because this move right now... is POWERFUL(or we give it sa like warios fsmash) and i concur about the dsmash but only on the frames where he is actually planting the mine

for the aerials : this should be fixed if l-canceling gives 50% reduction to all characters

for the nades : this is perfect

We have a DLC team as part of the WBR. There is more than likely to be a melee-themed skin pack at some point by the time this is released.
-DD

Ah, I was going to ask about this

 

[ETWIST51294]

I think after the final build is out we should start changing the stages, graphics, and sound effects. Lets worry about the physics first.

 

[DarkDragoon]

I think after the final build is out we should start changing the stages, graphics, and sound effects. Lets worry about the physics first.

=P That's what we're doing.

But they can't talk about Physics.
-DD

 

[ETWIST51294]

Yeah, I know. I was just saying it because there's a lot of people talking about it when you guys aren't even close to that phase yet.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Is DJC going to be given to all the same chars? Including Peach?

I still feel Lucas would be a fine candidate for it.

Nice trailer.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Yoshi, Ness, and Peach can all DJC.

I dunno about Lucas. I WANT him to be able to DJC but I don't know if it's in.

 

[kupo15]

It was up-B specific. Some characters could change directions at the peak of their up-Bs. Others could not (poor mario).

I can certainly see the argument that removing backwards grabbing adds an element of skill. On the other hand, the characters that can / can't grab backwards in Melee seems rather inconsistent.

I personally think that most of the problem was brawl's huuuge grab range, and that once this is fix'd it'll feel pretty good. My plans are to try...

1) see how backwards grab plays once grab ranges are melee-sized, however....
2) if this is still a problem in some way remove backwards grabbing but make sure that every character can grab the ledge backwards at least at the peak of their up-B.

Some quick points about backwards ledge grabbing. It should be removed and kept like melee. Backwards ledge grabbing destroys the effectiveness of the cape for edge guarding like nothing else. It makes any move that sends backwards less effective (like peach's dsmash) because that move forces you to face the wrong way and puts you at a slightly more disadvantage.

To clarify, only characters that had turning up b's could grab backwards...but this is ONLY if they are near the ledge during the cool down of the move. Once they hit blinking state, they can't grab backwards.

This adds an addition level of mindgames and rock paper scissors to the ledge game especially in relation to cape's and mirror shields. Even for characters who can't grab backwards, you can risk it all by predicting getting caped, thus you should up b the wrong direction so the cape flips you the right way so you can grab it.

It also makes things like scar jumping and ledge craziness easier (in a good way) in general. You don't have to have the edge snapping get in your way if your scar jumping or anything.

You are ruining the offstage game by keeping reverse grabbing by simply falling normally. Trust me.

Originally Posted by SHeLL View Post
@Gizka... of course! The real question is.. what makes someone "melee?" Here are my guesses, feel free to make suggestions:

1) Moves that flow together to promote a general combo game
2) Interesting tech-chasing options
4) Technical ATs

Yes, a general combo game where moves flow is good to an extent, but you have to be careful they don't flow together too well otherwise its EZ mode.

To me, what makes characters melee are the following:
-An appropriate power curve for moves where you have a small window to perform combos good combos
-You should have a reliable kill combo (or at the very least nearly death combo that really gives you an easy edge guard) that is 2 HITS when you approach the 120% ish mark with good DI.
Comboing should be HARD past 120% only really having 2 hit combos unless you pull something out of your ***.
-100% should be a scary percent for your opponent




I'm looking at the trailer, Falco's shine needs more kb (like ALMOST 2x as much) and it probably needs more growth as well. This might mean that falco needs a higher jump....in fact, that is what I am suggesting that way he can't get to the ground THAT quickly from his dair. His dair looks pretty wack. In melee, ganon can escape a shine to dair at that percent and he doesn't even go that far from the dair at that percent. I'm not sure if that ganon was trying to escape but that falco was comboing him as if he was fox instead.

But the weird thing is that the last clip of jigs getting falco shined seemed somewhat correct which could mean that the shine is the wrong KB or Ganon is too heavy or not floaty enough

I think fox's shine could use a bit more kb...but then again it was against DK and you rarely see DK in melee. It just doesn't seem like it sends as well as melee. Not sure

 

[Rain the Link Main]

Please take out grabbing the ledge backwards. It takes away a lot of depth from edge guarding. Not to mention it makes characters like Shiek who can turn around have no apparent advantage

I'd also like to see characters smaller or stages bigger like in Melee.

 

[metaXzero]

Honestly, I think we should wait until after the ledge grab distance is shrunk before we we consider removing backwards ledge grabbing.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

^brawl had some good advances and grabbing the ledge backwards is one of them so it should stay in, marios cape will still work as long as the ledge magnets are not s strong. Also i think brawl's RAR should also stay it would not hurt the game at all and gives another way to approach and there is nothing wrong with that.

Now about all of the people who are asking for the characters to look as they did in melee i say If u want that get a texture hack for it let the people making this project deal with the more important things like game play.

Ok so i have for the st time in a long time been playing melee and for the 1st time ever playing ganon(didn't play him before for two reasons but wont go into details unless someone really wants to know.) anyway being new to ganon i went to training mode to get use to him and i put him right next to the cpu and up-smashed and it did not hit i mean i was right next to the computer and i think it was DK. seeing this i wonder why people want ganon's old up-smash back when the new one hits futher away. (i know the old one can connect for a lot of dmg but i don't see why u can't just adjust the new one to do fit into this game instead of replacing it)(if i am missing simething importent tell me b/c i am new to ganon and might be missing something).

one last thing someone earlier asked for u to replace ganon's d-tilt with his old one this seems unnecessary if u just make the new one faster and change the knock-back to what it was in melee no point i a cosmetic change and doing all the extra work when u can just adjust the current move there. that is my opinon and i am sure many will disagree but i still say embarrassing some of brawls changes is a good thing (and i see u have been doing that i.e. dacus, glide toss)

 

[ETWIST51294]

You have to be EXTREMLY close for both hits of Ganons usmash to hit. But when it does....****.

Backwards ledge grabbing is stupid imo. It just makes recovering and edgehogging easier. IMO the harder the better, which is probably the reason I love melee in the first place.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

well if u lesson the amount of time the ledge can't be grabbed b/c in melee it was a little to long then backwords edge hogging would not be to easy, plus anyone could wavedash edge hog so i feel this wont make things any easier.

ok so i thought thats what the deal with ganon's up-smash was besides people just wanting this to be as melee as possible i see no reason to change his up-smash back to what it was maybe the brawl one will do a little less dmg but has a longer reach i see nothing wrong with it be kept plus i like the idea that all ganon needs is to lift one leg up and u get recked

 

[ETWIST51294]

A LITTLE DAMAGE CHANGE!?!

Ganons usmash in melee does 53% tops. How much does it do in brawl? Not nearly as much i'm sure.

 

[stRIP]

This vid made me spill my manly goo all over the desc

HOLYSHIIIIT

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

^well what i am saying is they can make the new up-smash do more dmg maybe not 53 but they could have it do a good amount. why not have it do 43% or something i mean they can adjust this kind of stuff so why change how the move looks?

 

[ETWIST51294]

Who cares? It won't really matter. Just let them do what they want.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

^true. (to be completely honest i would not be against a whole new moveset for ganon. one of the reasons i did not play him was b/c i did not like he was a clone made no sense to me, but that is not for this thread or for this game. (the other reason i did not play him is b/c a friend of mine did and i try not to play the mains of my friends)

 

[camelot]

A LITTLE DAMAGE CHANGE!?!

Ganons usmash in melee does 53% tops. How much does it do in brawl? Not nearly as much i'm sure.

In Brawl, it's a single kick that does 22% if the enemy is hit by his leg, or 19% if they're standing in front of Ganon, and it always sends them flying upwards.

Melee's u-smash is always 22% on the first hit and 19% on the second, and sends them flying sideways instead of up if they're hit while in front of Ganon. (This is what we changed it to in Melee 2.0)

So yeah, not nearly as much.

It's still a decent smash in Brawl, but it really didn't warrant a nerf (especially with Metaknight in the game, hurr hurr).

 

[ETWIST51294]

Mybad, I was 10% off. My memory isn't very good...

 

[Sovereign]

^true. (to be completely honest i would not be against a whole new moveset for ganon. one of the reasons i did not play him was b/c i did not like he was a clone made no sense to me, but that is not for this thread or for this game. (the other reason i did not play him is b/c a friend of mine did and i try not to play the mains of my friends)

Although he was a clone, Ganon had to be played a totally different way than Falcon. I loved his Melee moveset, and much prefer it over his Brawl moveset.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

^yes i m aware of that but before i did know that his being a clone upset me. After i actually learned how to play the game i did not try him b/c my friend played him but still he should not have that move set it makes no sense and its just a small thing that bugs me, i mean no energy ball he always had a energy ball. but yea thats not got this thread so i should not go on about it.

I will say that i am pretty confident that whatever they do to ganon he will be a very fun character to play (even in brawl were he sucks he is fun so its an easy task ) but i do expect him to be pretty solid in this and he might be the first character i try out when this is released to the public

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Please take out grabbing the ledge backwards. It takes away a lot of depth from edge guarding. Not to mention it makes characters like Shiek who can turn around have no apparent advantage

BS. People actually pay attention to crap like that? Backwards edge grabbing should stay. Period. There's no good or logical reason to take it away in the first place. It should've always been there. >_>

And I'm all for a complete Melee Ganon overhaul rather than a new moveset. Couldn't really call it Project M if he's completely different from Melee Ganon after all. XD