Project Vertical: Kill Percents, Stage Ceilings, Character Usmash/Uair Knockback

[Crizthakidd]

dude this is such a good thread. ill be having to come back here. lol not so good wiht numbers but knowing this will help. good job/ effort

 

[Airgemini]

Wow this must've taken hours.

 

[Earthbound360]

This is kinda wrong I think. I am POSITIVE Ness' uair kills earlier than Wario and DK's uairs.

I did Bowser on FD. Bowser died from Ness' uair on the ground at 133
Wario at 134
DK at 134 also

 

[UTDZac]

G&W Uair Kills at low percents. It reminds me of the old fox. I do not know if the initial hit has set knockback or not, but the second hit has very good knockback.

Also I don't see: Pokemon Stadium on the list at all, I thought that one would be important seeing as it's a neutral.

 

[Boolossus]

Good stuff, nice thread.

 

[KMAY]

Thank you very much man, good stuff to know, and Ivy's upsmash is just crazy

 

[A2ZOMG]

Why are Dedede and Snake (wtf?) heavier than Bowser? Stupid? (Not an insult to TC but to the programmers.)
How could Snake be heavier than Bowser???

But very good research, awesome work, man.
It just annoys me, that Bowser is neither the best killer nor the best survivor. -.-

Falcon is heavier than ganondorf??? >.>

Wow

Wow, did both of you guys just completely forget that characters have completely different falling speeds?

Oh wait, maybe it simply never occurred to you that falling speed actually affects how easily you die vertically.

Character WEIGHT affects how far you fly both horizontally and vertically on the other hand.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

This is kinda wrong I think. I am POSITIVE Ness' uair kills earlier than Wario and DK's uairs.

I did Bowser on FD. Bowser died from Ness' uair on the ground at 133
Wario at 134
DK at 134 also

dk's uair is actually one of his better killing moves (when not diminished), and it kills quicker than ness (gets other DK's in the 120's)

 

[Earthbound360]

dk's uair is actually one of his better killing moves (when not diminished), and it kills quicker than ness (gets other DK's in the 120's)

I never said it was a bad killing move. I just said it has less knockback than Ness' which it does. If you dont believe me, test it out how I describe below. Ness' uair is a lot stronger than people think.

I just tested it again. Ness' uair kills an idle Bowser at 135% on the floor of FD.
DK's kills at 137%
Both were undiminished and used on the ground.

Turns out I was wrong about Wario's. His kills earlier at 134% and Ness' at 135%. Ness' has much less lag though and chains and combos better IMO.

 

[SoliceTK]

Wonderful work on the stats! Thanks a lot for getting this info for us, now I know exactly when to U-smash with my Fox. No more stale U-smashes for me!

 

[leafgreen386]

If you wanna know exactly when to usmash with your fox, this thread will probably be much more useful to you.

 

[Thinkaman]

I'd like to bump this thread to call attention to the downward spiking stats I added.

 

[KeyKid19]

Random nuggets of info (all against Marth, not Mario unfortunately):

Falcon's Dthrow kills vertically at 530%
Falcon's Gentleman kills vertically at around 600%

Just thought you'd like to know that.

 

[Crizthakidd]

finally i found it lol was looking for this thread for a while now. anyone knows m2ks char weight list? * is doing brawl reasearch

 

[KeyKid19]

finally i found it lol was looking for this thread for a while now. anyone knows m2ks char weight list? * is doing brawl reasearch

It's listed in one of the stickied Info threads here.

 

[0RLY]

Can you run tests to see how strong Lucario's upward killing moves are when Lucario is at 50%, 100%, and 150% respectively? Intervals of 30%, up to 150% would be nice if you'd like to put in the time and effort.

Also, instead of running tests on just Mario, perform an additional test with d3 and jiggs, just so we know what damage our foe has to fall in between. I mean this for all the characters, not just Lucario. If you don't feel like doing this one, it's alright.

 

[Adapt]

You forgot Zamus's uair. It gets a lot of star-KOs

And all her spikes. (I'm curious how strong the down-B spike and up-B spike are in relation to others)

 

[JLynn943]

Fantastic work

the only thing I'd like to see added are the %'s for G&W's and Peach's u-airs

which I could just figure out myself anyway

 

[_clinton]

Um...I was testing how much % you would need to get a vertical kill with Samus' up tilt...I don't know if it is that helpful now...but I'll post it anyway...I chose Samus' up tilt because the knock back of it is only straight up when they are on the ground...no curve at all...I think sense we are testing the vertical kill defense...that a move that only knocks you up (If you are not in the air) would be better then a move that does it mostly...

Dedede=180
Snake=176
DK=174
Bowser=170

C. Falcon=168
Ganondorf=167
Ike=166
Link=164
Charizard=163
Wario=162
Wolf/Yoshi=161

ROB/Samus=159
Ivysaur=157
Lucario=155
Pit/Sonic/Mario=153
Luigi=152
Ness=151
Lucas/Diddy=150

Marth/Toon Link=149
Ice Climbers=146
Falco=144
Peach=143
Olimar=142
Pikachu/Zamus/Zelda/Shiek=140

Fox/Metaknight=137
Kirby=136
Game and Watch=133
Squirtle=130
Jigglypuff=125

It turns out...according to my info...that Luigi is the one in the middle for this game...I mean the mean for this data comes out to be 152...+ Luigi is the one who has 19 above him and 19 below him...

 

[FooXero]

Special attacks with vertical knockback: What about Snake's grenades? I frequently kill with those for a star KO.

Spikes: ZSS's down-b attack? It spikes at the tip of the toe however I will have to check if you can bounce them.

 

[Adapt]

None of ZSS's spikes will bounce you. If you hit the down-B on a grounded opponent they will go sideways (with decent knockback too)

I did a quick test in the waters on pirate ship and I get her down-B spike to come somewhere in between Ike's dair and Snake's fair in power. If anyone wants to get the exact value that'd be awesome

It's more powerful than I thought

 

[Star Ryan]

Great Idea!

Hopefully this'll come in handy.

 

[MysticKenji]

Special attacks with vertical knockback: What about Snake's grenades? I frequently kill with those for a star KO.

146% (Grenade)
85% (C4)

Using his criteria.

 

[-NEOLINK-]

Thanks for working hard on this thread. What beast Ivysaur is!

 

[Dynomite]

wow this is really gona help, great post.. btw, do u think that rainbow ride's celing should be higher knowing that it goes up 1/2 the time? and where is pokemon stadium 1... on ciling hights.. and what are the slashes in between like :frigate 81-77?

 

[DanGR]

Olimar's purple upthrow is stronger than his blue upthrow. You might want to change that in the last section.

 

[iLink]

Lucario's uair is a surprisingly good ko attack at a decent percent. Maybe try some at 50% and 100%? Same for usmash.

Actually I'm gonna try this and come back with the info.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Could you post some results of Lucario at Max power and what he does with his attacks? and at 100% where I mostly see him? Might help out a lot with showing how powerful he gets.

 

[iLink]

I'm currently testing Lucario's uair, usmash, utitl and dtilt at intervals of 30% stopping at about 180% (What I believe is max) Then maybe I'll try his uthrow and dthrow

Usmash might not be terribly accurate as the sweetspot is above lucario in about the center of the aura and I'm mainly trying them while mario is grounded.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Ah, Gotchya, Lucario reaches max power at I think 192% damage, so you might need to do one more test past 180%, also, for each stock he is behind, he gets another multiplayer up to I think 4 stocks? So you might have to do that. Lucario is difficult to get great data with.

 

[iLink]

Dang I forgot about the stocks >_> I always thought the multiplier was up to 3 stocks however. I might do the stock multiplier another time. I just want to get the basic percent multiplier. Whenever I have time, I'll be sure to post it in the Lucario section.

Well then I'll stop the percent at about 210% just to be sure.

 

[MK26]

Nope, stocks are up to 2.

And go up to 210% to be sure, good idea

 

[iLink]

Ha finally finished. I didn't try the stock multiplier as that would take way too long since I did all this in practice where your attacks don't weaken.


=========================
At 0%

Usmash - 177
Utilt- 209
Uair- 211
Dtilt- 237

=========================
At 30%

Usmash - 165
Utilt- 198
Uair- 198
Dtilt- 224

=========================
At 60%

Usmash - 137
Utilt- 170
Uair- 166
Dtilt- 192

=========================
At 90%

Usmash - 117
Utilt- 151
Uair- 145
Dtilt- 170

=========================
At 120%

Usmash - 103
Utilt- 138
Uair- 130
Dtilt- 154

=========================
At 150%

Usmash - 91
Utilt- 126
Uair- 117
Dtilt- 140

=========================
At 180%

Usmash - 84
Utilt- 119
Uair- 109
Dtilt- 132

=========================
At 210%

Usmash - 84
Utilt- 119
Uair- 109
Dtilt- 132

=========================
Throws deal same knock back at all percents

Dthrow - 399
Uthrow - 401

=========================

All attacks tested on Mario on Final Destination

Uair were tested using a ledgehop

Utilts were sweet spotted on an ideal Mario

Usmashes were done with Lucario overlapping Mario which may not be were it deals the most knock back

=========================

So there's what I managed to get.

 

[Max Ketchum]

This is very helpful, thanks a ton.

Also, it might be worth noting that attacks are weaker in training mode, so you might want to re-run some tests in versus. <_< (sorry if this was already mentioned, I didn't read any other posts)

 

[TheSMASHtyke]

Wow, this is an awesome guide

Luigi's Down-Air spike and down taunt seem to be missing from the spike list. I don't know about his D-air since it is ridiculously hard to land the spiking hitbox, but his down tilt can K.O. through the pirateship's water at zero.

 

[MasterDaveNo1]

thats some cool stuff.

 

[infernovia]

Fantastic, but I am wondering how powerful ivysaur's spike is. You don't have that listed either.

 

[Adapt]

Fantastic, but I am wondering how powerful ivysaur's spike is. You don't have that listed either.

it's rather weak, its just a bit stronger than Lucas' Dair, and weaker than CF's side-B

 

[Storm_Fox]

Are you able to add Dash Upsmash because its power varies from normal uncharged smashes

 

[XienZo]

Are you able to add Dash Upsmash because its power varies from normal uncharged smashes

hyphen smashes or DACsmashes?

DAC smashes are guaranteed to be the same as standing ones in power.

Its possible the programmers may have put something random that raises hyphen smash's power though. But still unlikely.