Public Requests Thread

[rPSIvysaur]

Public requests (via PM, thread, etc.) go in here.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11255357&postcount=11762

This is a good idea. I'll see what I can do.

Vids compiled:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_SqCuuo1Co&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZO7R...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAcWHzc7jRQ

Anyone got the replays still? In case they ask me for them, which they will most likely do.

We'd be very grateful if you guys could come up with an explanation for this, with the frame data for us to follow, and a how-to-recreate if it is possible.

PS: I was the yellow Kirby. :D[/QUOTE]

Request from Kewkky. Any takers?

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Can someone test GW's hurtbox while floating in his parachute and moving? Because the norfair lava doesn't hurt GW while he is doing that, and that has been known since 08 but I've been getting my GW ready for teams and I've been recovering like armada does in melee by just leaving the chute open and floating down with it because he sways a lot and it can be hard for the opponent to hit you.

But while doing this I noticed several times it seemed like moves just..went through me. Like I was invincible. Move hit me out of it a couple of times but others just went through it and I'm really confused as to why. I'm guessing at some point during the animation his hurtbox shrinks to almost nothing..or something like that heh.

Sort of a request from Hylian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkvLt2fM97c
That's my video of the phenomenon. I'm near positive it's because of him going into the Z-axis during the second swing. Looking at his bones in Brawlbox, his TopHaveN (I think that's what it was) bone during the parachute animation seemed to go in the z-axis at points that would match up with his frame data.

If someone could verify that this is the case, it would be awesome.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Request from Kewkky. Any takers?

It appears that he is glitching in the same spot where you grab the ledge but don't grab it. I can't remember what the tech is called. -_-
Anyways, in every video it was at the left ledge of battlefield. Maybe it can only be performed there. I haven't used the hacking program for over a year and I honestly don't remember a darn thing about it.
So can someone please look at the stage data and see if there is something out of the ordinary at this ledge?
And another thing, does anyone know if any other characters can do this? You would think that maybe D3 or Ike would be able to do the same thing. Kirby would have the only useful one though. lol

Also, is there a thread teaching how to use the hacking program? I need to relearn.

 

[GimR]

I request invincibility frames for 1 character it doesn't matter who.

A comparison of invincibility frames from a character's normal get up attack, stand up, and his invincibility frames from his stand up, get up attack, and roll, after tripping.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

long time lurker here.
iirc you're the leader of the smash research group, or whatever it is called (it's 2 am as i'm writing this and my memory fails me). i was hoping you could help me by answering a simple question about hilldashing.

i had originally posted my question here but i have no doubt that i will make little to no progress asking in this way. if you could please see my post and get back to me i would really appreciate it. right now i'm wondering if there might be something useful to the metagame with this awkward mechanic as it seems to be everywhere i wouldn't expect to find it.

I guess I'll try to make a frame map when I get time.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Frame map for hilldash:

00 : 00 Input left
01 : 98 Hold left
02 : 96 Hold left
03 : 95 Release left; DeDeDe begins falling; input down
04 : 93 Hold down
05 : 91 Release down; DeDeDe begins fast falling; input stick between the southwestern and western position
06-17 : 90-69 Hold stick between the southwestern and western position
18 : 70 Release southwest west; DeDeDe lands
19 : 68 Slide begins; landing visual effects appear
20 : 66 Controller rumbles
21 : 65 N/A
22 : 63 Landing sound effect

It's evident that this slide happens because you heavy land on a elevation difference; I've been doing this stuff on Corneria and Pokemon Stadium 1 since forever. Holding the stick in the SW/W position is only necessary so than you hit the elevation difference cretaed by the curb and the street.

 

[Remzi]

For Kewkkeys kirby thing, Marth has something similar where if you UP B the ledge from a certain point, you land right on top of the stage, so your vertical distance is about a 4th of its normal self. I may be able to look into that later.

 

[thexsunrosered]

oh yeah I meant to look into that o.o

 

[Yikarur]

Double Post, my bad!

This post was too long. Something for SL to look into /summary

Why is this formula important? It dictates the amount of pummels each character is guarenteed to get at any percent. By figuring out general % brackets you can get a great idea for guarenteed pummels, which can help every character in the game.

The formula would likely be something similar to:
Base Damage + (Damage Multiplier * % of Enemy) + Additional frames from Pummel Damage / # of frames each input removes from timer (AFAIK, only 1 input may happen per frame. I don't know how many frames of a grab each input removes from the timer)

Then using the number you get from that formula, you'd divide it by the # of rames your pummel is. We can find pummel frames by using each characters frame data which can be found in the following link:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258564

So what do you think?

 

[SuSa]

For Kewkkeys kirby thing, Marth has something similar where if you UP B the ledge from a certain point, you land right on top of the stage, so your vertical distance is about a 4th of its normal self. I may be able to look into that later.

I do have some speculation as to what causes this to happen.

PS:
Battlefields Left Edge is different than it's Right Edge. I can go digging for the proof, but it's been proven by some community somewhere at some time... Pretty sure it was actually the Link community that proved this? I'd have to go digging for a few hours.

What the Link Boards tested:

"Ghost Boomerang"... let's see if I can find a vid..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZwmODzcdD0

Aww, well that's FD and only on the right side... =\ not what I wanted.. but yes, edges are different on stages. That's the point I'm trying to make at least.



Okay, so the edges being different means this could be a specific-side technique like the phantom boomerang I just linked to. It only happens on Battlefield's Left side, so it could be something special about this ledge.

However my thoughts involve Wolf's Scar technique.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxlbKUow4zc

Please note that this technique isn't actually Wolf dependant, he's just the easiest character to do it with. He also has something called the "Semi-scar" which causes him to fall upon touching the edge of the stage, this is actually shared among the cast and can be replicated with many characters (Fox, Ike, Link, Snake, Meta Knight, Jigglypuff, and others)

Now that was just information to share with everyone. This is only somewhat important to my idea about what is happening.

Scarring seems to happen because of a programming error with ledges, or at least the shape of them. Your character is seen to be "on" the stage when they are not, setting you into a standing position or glitching you through the stage. My hypothesis deals with the latter.

You can test this by building a custom stage and placing 2 square blocks at a 90 degree angle. Using the right angle and speed, you can glitch between the two blocks - even though you shouldn't be able to. This idea is now applied to the ledge.

You are glitching through the ledge, and it is now saying you are on the stage. This is very similar to Platform cancelling. This glitching of the ledge could cause the game to assume you just touched the surface.

Kirby's Up-B ends when it lands on a surface, if you can space it properly you can land onto a platform without actually doing the "falling" part of the animation. This leads me to believing that when you glitch through the ledge, it's treating you as if you just landed on the surface.

Once I get my new copy of Brawl (this weekend, hoping tonight.. but parents are busy) I'll be able to run a frame-by-frame using the three videos as reference to exactly where and when Kirby uses his Up-B and try to find the frame this can occur on.

Hope this information was useful as welll.

 

[Kinzer]

I do have some speculation as to what causes this to happen.

PS:
Battlefields Left Edge is different than it's Right Edge. I can go digging for the proof, but it's been proven by some community somewhere at some time... Pretty sure it was actually the Link community that proved this? I'd have to go digging for a few hours.

Confirming that Battlefield's ledges are not proportional. The reason I know this is because Sonic Can D-Throw "spike" King Dedede on the right side of the stage facing inwards, while the same cannot be on on the other side. It's highly impractical but there you go.

 

[SuSa]

So it was the Sonic boards on Battlefield! XD I knew it was one of the boards....

Thank you for the confirmation.

EDIT @ Bengalz

Marth's up-b thing happens on any ledge I thought? It's just a "perfect landing" through a ledge. Similar to scarring, but for Marth.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Actually SuSa, platform canceling isn't related to stage scarring. Veril and I(the old new smash lab leader) have actually been discussing this quite a bit. We're on a hunch that specific bits in aerials cause this, along with model distortion. We've even been looking into bone/hitbox/frame relations, but it's just crazy.

I have also been looking into scarring. Although I gotta admit, I didn't know jigglypuff/snake/ike/double rainbow guy could do this. Though I've already found the frame windows for scarring with Fox and fall and land scarring with Falco and Wolf. It very interesting, and I'll try to post data/shots tomorrow.

As for Kirby's thing... that's a pain. I haven't been able to replicate it in frame advance or otherwise.

 

[SuSa]

Well, not everyone can scar but everyone

Spoiler

(I use "everyone" not meaning everyone... but a large majority that I know about)

can semi-scar which is the "touch the lip of the ledge and gain your double jump and up-b back" one. Scar is "glitch through the stage with soopah powahs".

Of course, semi-scarring with most characters is practically impossible. I spent days trying to recreat it with Link when I first did it, only to have it happen once... then again this was attempting it real time. <_<

Okay, not related and it's probably far above my head. XD Glad it's being looked into though.

Oh, and Big O is helping me with my grab formula stuff, it appears he and Ref had tested it a lot. (As expected of the Dk and Ness boards, considering grabs are important to both of them... and the Lucas boards never do jack ****...)

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Well, not everyone can scar but everyone

Spoiler

(I use "everyone" not meaning everyone... but a large majority that I know about)

can semi-scar which is the "touch the lip of the ledge and gain your double jump and up-b back" one. Scar is "glitch through the stage with soopah powahs".

Of course, semi-scarring with most characters is practically impossible. I spent days trying to recreat it with Link when I first did it, only to have it happen once... then again this was attempting it real time. <_<

Okay, not related and it's probably far above my head. XD Glad it's being looked into though.

Oh, and Big O is helping me with my grab formula stuff, it appears he and Ref had tested it a lot. (As expected of the Dk and Ness boards, considering grabs are important to both of them... and the Lucas boards never do jack ****...)

Wow. I've never heard of semi-scarring. Why am I not surprised MK can do this?

Dayum. The callout.

 

[SuSa]

Both need to be renamed... neither is a really good name for what it is, and both were decided on by the Wolf Boards at time of discovery - because Wolf's side-b is the easiest to scar/semi-scar on purpose nearly every time due to it's angle I would assume? Something about it makes it easy to do however.

Scarring is more of "Ignoring the ledge and glitching through the stage"

Semi-scarring is "Stage Lip Reset"...It resets you with your second jump + up-B while you fall straight down. I believe it works by essentially "being on the stage" for what I believe to be 1 frame, when you aren't actually on the stage. So your model is put into a falling state off-stage as if you had just walked off the lip of the stage.

EDIT:

Wow I fail with terminilogy.... Wolf's have "semi-scar" as two things. =| One is just "holding down while you side-b onto the stage to ignore the ledge"..... I'll find a video to show what I mean

Whatever, I found a vid of Samus doing it:
Clicky me

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Wait, nevermind, I know what semi scarring is then. It's what I refered to as "fall" with Falco/Wolf.

Like I said, I can post frame maps and images tomorrow.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I thought that it was called edge cancelling.

 

[SuSa]

People like to have a billion names for things, and there are two forms of edge cancelling as well.

One is what I mentioned, and another is "being pushed in your shield off the edge" =|

So glad one of the jobs we have is to create a standard for terms....

EDIT:
Example with Samus

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Awright, so that's related to Fox's scar, and exactly like Jigglypuff's sing cancel, which Veril also looked into in '08 I think.

This could also be connected to that thing where you cape someone at the right time to get the to hold the edge inside the stage. Which I've suspected for quite some time now; edges aren't static points or lines, but rather spheres of grabbability.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I'd ask Dant about that one there Sturds.

 

[Yikarur]

don't call this things scarring :/ scarring is Wolf specific and describes SideB from the edge without grabbing the ledge.

this is with Yoshi but I wasn't able to do this at all yet lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmVMOij6HdM 0:55

"Veril and I(the old new smash lab leader) have actually been discussing this quite a bit. We're on a hunch that specific bits in aerials cause this, along with model distortion. We've even been looking into bone/hitbox/frame relations, but it's just crazy."

with this you mean "platform canceling" ?
Platform canceling has nothing to do with the aerial because you platform cancel by holding down and release/negate down input while passing the platform.

 

[Luxor]

Well there is te Dair variant of platform cancelling, and Veril does have hus EAC pseudowavelanding tech or w/e that works through the hurtbox extension mechanic, but I'm not sure it's the same thing as platform cancelling.

 

[Yikarur]

of course there is a dair variant of platform canceling.

"you platform cancel by holding down and release/negate down input while passing the platform."

when you pass through the platform and press the c-stick down the game reads it as "down for one frame" so you released if afterwards, voila, Platform cancel.
You can also Platform Cancel by holding down and then Press the C-Stick in another direction.
C-Stick has priority over controlstick so the controlstick gets ignored for one frame.
so you pass the platform, hold down and when you know press the c-stick in another direction the game reads it as "released down" for one frame and platform canceling occur.
If you shield in platform canceling height while holding down you will also platform canceling, Shield input seems to negate the down input.
that has nothing to do with the aerial but I don't know why it exactly happens.

There is one additional weird thing I don't get to work in frame advance.
in real time I can fulljump down + shield about simultaneously and drop instantly through the platform without really being on the platform.
but I wasn't able to reproduce it in frame advance yet :/

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Do you have a dazzle or something that you can record yourself doing it on? I can probably look @ it in Virtualdub and tell you what frames stuff happened on and that might help you.

 

[Yikarur]

http://www.file-upload.net/download-2877594/DSCI0143.AVI.html

I hope that link works for you.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

00 : 00 input jump
07 : 88 airborne
24 : 60 land on platform
25 : 58 drop through begin

That is what I got. The video ended up being in 30fps, which I couldn't bump up to 60fps due to it being a camcorder. So those are the estimates based on what I saw. It seems just like a regular platform cancel with shield into platform drop. I know from dealing with Snake that you can do the platform drop with shield, but have no shield come out. It is very sensitive, so just pressing down won't work in frame advance, you have to find the right sensitivity.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

don't call this things scarring :/ scarring is Wolf specific and describes SideB from the edge without grabbing the ledge.

The point is, you're inputting an action, and it negates the ledgegrab animation, which was interrupting the move initially. The Yoshi, Samus, and Jigglypuff things work on the same mechanics as Space Animal "Scarring", except that they occur beneath the ledge-grabbable area, while scarring occurs level with/above it.

00 : 00 input jump
07 : 88 airborne
24 : 60 land on platform
25 : 58 drop through begin

That is what I got. The video ended up being in 30fps, which I couldn't bump up to 60fps due to it being a camcorder. So those are the estimates based on what I saw. It seems just like a regular platform cancel with shield into platform drop. I know from dealing with Snake that you can do the platform drop with shield, but have no shield come out. It is very sensitive, so just pressing down won't work in frame advance, you have to find the right sensitivity.

Man 1000 times that. The sensitivity FA adds to shield platform dropping is what's been hindering my research into the Snake grenade thing and instant shield platform drop.

Also, thanks for the tip rPSI. I'll make sure to ask Dant.

 

[SuSa]

don't call this things scarring :/ scarring is Wolf specific and describes SideB from the edge without grabbing the ledge.

this is with Yoshi but I wasn't able to do this at all yet lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmVMOij6HdM#t=00m52s

"Veril and I(the old new smash lab leader) have actually been discussing this quite a bit. We're on a hunch that specific bits in aerials cause this, along with model distortion. We've even been looking into bone/hitbox/frame relations, but it's just crazy."

with this you mean "platform canceling" ?
Platform canceling has nothing to do with the aerial because you platform cancel by holding down and release/negate down input while passing the platform.

Protip: add #t=xxmxxs to the end of a youtube URL to start it at a certain time. M is minute, S is second. 01m55s starts it at 1 minute 55 seconds for example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmVMOij6HdM#t=00m52s

Like that. It'll start at 0 minutes, 52 seconds. Saves time from having to buffer/find the correct timing in the video.


Left ledge of BF with Marth, similar to the Kirby thing.. almost..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0BbOl_XQoc

 

[Luxor]

Turns out a lot of stages aren't quite symmetrical. BF isn't, we know, and neither are a bunch of others. That stuff is actually reflected in my stage data, which is kind of neat.

 

[thexsunrosered]

o.o I didn't know that. are there any that are really bad?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Hello Competitive Brawlers. I was wondering if there was someone here who could do a frame test for me? I am using Peach and trying to figure out some quick-fingered possibilities

Request #1:- If I use a floating dair -> up throw turnip. Then asafa (as soon as frames allow) do a ground floated uair, is there anything Dedede or Donkey Kong can do about it? *Nair, jump, air dodge*

Here is a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JVkpCt5Rxc


Request #2:- If I chain grab Snake from 0%, fresh dthrow, up to ~ 24% - 29%, can I instantly ground float uair after the dthrow? Or can snake do anything about it?

Thanks again for anyone who can and is willing to help

 

[Kinzer]

Once this week is over and I take my SAT exam, I can take a look.

That is assuming nobody else gets to this request before I do.

 

[DeLux]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=290559

Specifically look at post two. PM me if you want to help on this project. It's pretty big.

 

[Luxor]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=11605102#post11605102
OMGWTFBBQHAXSAUCE

 

[Luxor]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11607736&postcount=31
No need no more no how

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Already gave my thoughts on the down input that's necessary. Makes sense imo but it could easily be argued that that's biased.:stupidfox:

 

[KayLo!]

Also is there like an actual hit bubble thing image for Din's??

No.

Is it possible to get one? Or is it just too difficult?

Zeldas want a visible hitbubble for Din's Fire if anyone's up for the task. I dunno how to do that hack stuff. ;;

 

[KayLo!]

Got asked about this again. Oh Biooooo~