PYP mafia! Game over!

[Thirdkoopa]

I don't think Role Cop is that strong compared to Roleblock as its interference is indirect, meanwhile Roleblock has the potential to ruin any and all Power Roles.
But I'm not strong on either one either way, as long as Hider and Disguiser are out, and that seems to be the consensus so far.

Anyone that votes or keep their votes on Hider or Disguiser are on my hit list.

Alright, the main topic of discussion is do we entertain Poisoner. The second topic is, what do we entertain with it, if we think Poisoner is worth the risk. I think we just need to have a discussion on if we're going yes or no with Poisoner...

Role Cop means a more silent but deadly approach and giving the Mafia more information as the informed Minority. Roleblock means silently stopping PR's, but only if those PR's claim - That is, assuming we decide that Poisoner is worth entertaining.

I'm honestly at a loss if we keep Poisoner on the table as an option. I need the night to think it over.

If we end up deciding that the jailer stuff isn't worth entertaining, what would you pick to go with Poisoner?

 

[Maven89]

I think it's a high probability we received a jailer. Because of that, I'm a hard no on poisoner. Poisoner and Disguise are the only 2 hard counters that have no purpose without their corresponding role, while nullifying the role they match. Simply based on numbers alone, we know that we either have a tracker, cop, or jail. Of all of those, I find jail the most likely. It's the only one that cannot give a confirmed clear/guilty on any player except for a mylo situation.

Roleblock + rolecop does give the mafia the ability to shut down one of our PRs, but in reality, the mafia will need to kill the PR as soon as they discover them in case their RBer is lynched. Roleblock is the weaker of the two.

 

[Fandangox]

Disguised and Hider are the only two I DEFINITELY am goimg to say no to. The former doesn't just completely invalidate two potential Town roles, but it can give us straught up misinformation and lead to a mislynch. And even then, it's going to be a lot of wine that any positive Tracker results are basically useless.
The latter just straight up takes away information from us, there's no benfit to choosing it and it's the only role that's guaranteed to be effective.

So, between Role Cop, Roleblocker and Poisoner...
Role Cop is probably the "weakest". Sure, it can sniff out PRs but it can't directly mess with them.
Roleblocker isn't as strong without Role Cop but the combo of Role Cop+Blocker could lead to Mafia just silently shutting down a power role. Still, if used correctly, it can shut down any of the power roles so it's more of a Hard to Master type of role.
Poisoner is like Disguiser in that it directly counters a power role, but it's just one role and it doesn't completely negate it(Jailkeeper can still block the other Mafia PR). And even then, at least two PRs are guaranteed to not be affected by it.

So I'll go with

Vote: Rolecop

Vote: Poisoner

These two roles don't really synergize with each other and are the least disruptive overall, regardless of our own Power Roles.

I see where you are coming from, but Poisoner would still allow mafia to get a nightkill while at worst, the combination of roleblock + rolecop would prevent town to use something that they shouldn't be entirely relying on.

And unless I am misinterpreting something that combination would take them at least 2 nights to perform , while poisoner would assure a nightkill on a player they want.

 

[Deleted member]

#HBC | Nabe
It counters just one role that might not even be in.
I don't see Role Cop with Roleblocker as that weak as the former is what maked the latter so powerful.

But I guess I can see where you guys are coming from.

Unvote: Poisoner
Vote: Roleblocker

Won't be here for most of tomorrow so don't expect more from me.
i still think we should give them a dayvig tho

 

[Fandangox]

Vote: Rolecop

 

[Z25]

Well by easier I mean it compared to the other ones.

Mafia already knows the town roles so with the right sleuthing it be easy for them to find the right one to roleblock.

I also do not want the mafia to be able to disguise themselves. It will get as bad as nabes claims last game and the mafia will fool too many townsfolk at the right time with it.

And I sure as hell don’t want them getting a role cop. That’s arguably the worst possibility as mafia being able to learn a persons kit while killing someone else would literally sweep the town up like a tornado.

 

[Z25]

Maven89 aoparently smash boards didn’t want to copy your post to my above one

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Hey Guys, sorry I'm late to the party. I've been working the past 2 days nonstop as 3 peeps just quit and I had to cover for them.

Disclaimer: I haven't read the thread yet, but my initial thoughts are these.

NO: on 1 Shot flip and Disguised Mafia. Reasoning being that I severely dislike less information. As town you don't have a lot to go on as it is and the inability to know what happened is terrible.

Role Blocker potentially hinders town for a night and effectively a better role cop late game unless they picked the day vig. But this is the weaker No of the 3. I would swap this with Role Cop if we had to compromise.

YES: Poisoner it's def the weakest of the PR's. Role Cop. It's not that good imo. And if there's a tracker in the game it's another target to hit in the mafia. It also doesn't do much late game with no hits and the early game it's hard to find any targets anyways.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I really did try to reduce the size of that 2nd picture trust me.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I've read the thread now and my views haven't changed. Tho Maven can persuade me on the poisoner. I kinda like where he's going, but I would rather not give mafia 3 night actions with Role Cop, Role Block, and NK. and I'm a hard NO on flip hider and disguised.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Flip Hider and Disguised are just not good ideas. I’m keeping my votes where they’re at right now.

Can someone get a vote count going in here?

 

[Vult Redux]

I'm at a wedding today and haven't caught up on the new roles or votes or anything. If any of you demons kick in a role before I can read them you are being deliberately anti-town and I'm voting you out.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Flip Hider and Disguised are just not good ideas. I’m keeping my votes where they’re at right now.

Can someone get a vote count going in here?

I have decided for the rest of the game I'm only reading Thirdkoopa's posts, so if you have a queston please ask Thirdkoopa to ask me.

Poisoner: Z25 (1)
Flip Hider: Z25 (1)
Disguiser:
Role Blocker: Thirdkoopa, Fire Emblemier, Maven, Pokechu, Fandangox, Shishœ (6)
Role Cop: Pokechu, Maven, Shishœ, Fandangox (4)

 

[Deleted member]

Flip Hider: Z25 (1)

I know I said I'd trust you next time but you're really making this hard buddy

 

[Moydow]

Vote: Roleblocker

Seems like the least worst by far.

As for the others, disguise and janitor are horrible and we should avoid them like the plague. Disguise in particular basically invalidates two of our potential roles, and anything that creates confusion or withholds information just gives the mafia a massive boost, which is the last thing we need.

So between rolecop and poisoner, I could go either way. Rolecop and roleblocker in tandem could be really dangerous, the mafia could just track down the PRs and shut them down while picking off other townies along the way. While poisoner just invalidates the jailer. I'm leaning towards rolecop at the moment because giving the mafia a hard counter to any role doesn't sound like a good idea, but I think they're both equally dodgy.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

giraffelasergun

Are there majority lynches in this game, or does the phase always run its course?

Same question applies to role voting right now.

 

[giraffelasergun]

giraffelasergun

Are there majority lynches in this game, or does the phase always run its course?

Same question applies to role voting right now.

Phases run the course. After the first few days all days will be 24 hours which I think should be enough to prevent the game from going stagnant

 

[Maven89]

Phases run the course. After the first few days all days will be 24 hours which I think should be enough to prevent the game from going stagnant

Can the mafia preform their night kill and their night PR action at the same time?

 

[Kantrip]

Hey guys. Town has three PR's guaranteed, correct?

 

[giraffelasergun]

Can the mafia preform their night kill and their night PR action at the same time?

Yessir.

 

[Kantrip]

I think I'm on board with the consensus idea of giving the mafia rolecop and roleblocker. Both roles are trackable and jailable and don't render any town PR's obsolete/untrustworthy like Poisoner/Disguiser do. I'd be potentially open to considering the one-shot Janitor but otherwise I'm good with

Vote: Rolecop
Vote: Roleblocker

 

[Z25]

I know I said I'd trust you next time but you're really making this hard buddy

Ok this role wasn’t what I thought it was. And I guess I can go with the idea of a roleblocker.

Re reading the thread makes it a better choice. At least if they have a role blocker then can easily block vanilla townies without knowing.

Unvote: flip hider.

Vote: role blocker


Granted it will suck if they use this right but if they don’t its good for us.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

You guys do realize that this gives Mafia a really good combo of Rolecop>Roleblock. This is super strong. They wouldn't even have to kill the PR's because they could just RB them until they had no use for them.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Something weird here.

Well those are rough.


So I guess:

Vote: Poisoner

Vote: 1 shot flip hider


Poisoner is easy to deal with, but 1 shot flip isn't fun, but is the lesser of the remaining skills imo.

It's important to remember that the 1flip hider works on lynches too

...Unvote: One Shot Flip Hider since Mafia can jan their own lynch.

Alright, Poisoner, Roleblocker, and Rolecop. Those are the least worst.

Also I'm glad we're all in agreement that Disguiser is awful.

Disguised and Hider are the only two I DEFINITELY am goimg to say no to. The former doesn't just completely invalidate two potential Town roles, but it can give us straught up misinformation and lead to a mislynch. And even then, it's going to be a lot of wine that any positive Tracker results are basically useless.
The latter just straight up takes away information from us, there's no benfit to choosing it and it's the only role that's guaranteed to be effective.

So, between Role Cop, Roleblocker and Poisoner...
Role Cop is probably the "weakest". Sure, it can sniff out PRs but it can't directly mess with them.
Roleblocker isn't as strong without Role Cop but the combo of Role Cop+Blocker could lead to Mafia just silently shutting down a power role. Still, if used correctly, it can shut down any of the power roles so it's more of a Hard to Master type of role.
Poisoner is like Disguiser in that it directly counters a power role, but it's just one role and it doesn't completely negate it(Jailkeeper can still block the other Mafia PR). And even then, at least two PRs are guaranteed to not be affected by it.

So I'll go with

Vote: Rolecop

Vote: Poisoner

These two roles don't really synergize with each other and are the least disruptive overall, regardless of our own Power Roles.

I know I said I'd trust you next time but you're really making this hard buddy

Determining what's strange is left as an exercise for the reader.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Pokechu especially with the post above.

giraffelasergun
When Roleblocker and Jailkeeper interact, if one blocks the other, then the other's block will be blocked rather than reaching its target, right?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I think a relevant note about the poisoner is that, if there is a jailkeeper in the game, the poisoner will be one mafia member consistently making kills at Night.

Thirdkoopa Moydow @Shishœ Fandangox Sephiroths Masamune regarding the above.


I have another thing to say about that, but it can be left for a moment.

 

[Z25]

Something weird here.







Determining what's strange is left as an exercise for the reader.

Just because Emma is your avatar, doesn't mean you can play detective.



But in all honestly, I don't understand what your trying to convey, nor do I think others will. And let's be honest after the last game, getting a town to work with you won't be easy lol.


Also the game hasn't even started, how can you scum hunt? Assuming that's what your doing here.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I'm trying to get at what you're finding weird here. The big thing I noticed on my end is, as usual, I skimmed too hard (not a healthy habit). The biggest thing I noticed though are the poisoner votes.

I'm curious at your opinion, Nabe, considering you have yet to note.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I see your point. If we have a tracker then we can easily catch the NK.

I'm not liking Z25's kneejerk reaction there. Kinda just tried to shake off suspicion before anything was even said.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I slept on this, but, thought: If we go with Poisoner, I'm thinking Roleblocker. That way, Scum have less information.

Just because Emma is your avatar, doesn't mean you can play detective.



But in all honestly, I don't understand what your trying to convey, nor do I think others will. And let's be honest after the last game, getting a town to work with you won't be easy lol.


Also the game hasn't even started, how can you scum hunt? Assuming that's what your doing here.

Actually, in PyP, you can scumhunt early but... I'm not really focused on that right now. I'm focused on picking apart roles since this is the ONLY chance we'll get to do so. Once we get to Day 1 we can start the real scumhunting.

I can see what he's trying to do here, but, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. I think he's onto something. That said, I'm not gonna let him sit on the fence. Especially since we need to pick our roles and we've got about 6 hours.

(Thank god there's no post restrictions this time around)

I see your point. If we have a tracker then we can easily catch the NK.

I'm not liking Z25's kneejerk reaction there. Kinda just tried to shake off suspicion before anything was even said.

I'm not liking it either, but, it's his first PyP (probably?). What I said applies up above; I'm looking at these roles right now.

To the people asking why they feel Rolecop is weak, I'm curious to more.

 

[Maven89]

Something weird here.







Determining what's strange is left as an exercise for the reader.

I’d rather let them continue tightening the noose instead of being scared off

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Maven, what are your thoughts of Poisoner/RC or RB vs RC and RB.

 

[Z25]

I slept on this, but, thought: If we go with Poisoner, I'm thinking Roleblocker. That way, Scum have less information.



Actually, in PyP, you can scumhunt early but... I'm not really focused on that right now. I'm focused on picking apart roles since this is the ONLY chance we'll get to do so. Once we get to Day 1 we can start the real scumhunting.

I can see what he's trying to do here, but, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. I think he's onto something. That said, I'm not gonna let him sit on the fence. Especially since we need to pick our roles and we've got about 6 hours.

(Thank god there's no post restrictions this time around)


I'm not liking it either, but, it's his first PyP (probably?). What I said applies up above; I'm looking at these roles right now.

To the people asking why they feel Rolecop is weak, I'm curious to more.

Yeah I've never played any mafia in this style. On top of that, knowing the specific role names isn't something I'm great at either, but I know the actual effects.

Regardless like I said, I'm clueless as to what he's trying to suggest though.

And I fully agree he should at least vote or share concrete opinions first rather than being vague on something.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I don't think a first pyp is an excuse. This is my first pyp and it's just common sense to play the game with the time you're allotted. This seems to me more like trying to deflect rather than a newbie's first mistake.

 

[giraffelasergun]

.

giraffelasergun
When Roleblocker and Jailkeeper interact, if one blocks the other, then the other's block will be blocked rather than reaching its target, right?

Yes, if those two roles are both in the game then they block each other.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Yes, if those two roles are both in the game then they block each other.

To clarify, if JK/RB A blocks JK/RB B, who blocks Role C, then Role C is never blocked, regardless of which of the two A is and which of the two B is. Is that correct?

 

[Z25]

I don't think a first pyp is an excuse. This is my first pyp and it's just common sense to play the game with the time you're allotted. This seems to me more like trying to deflect rather than a newbie's first mistake.

Alright if your not going to directly answer me but then criticize me.

Explain yourself. What's so wrong with my post?

I've played plenty of previous mafia games, and we literally just proved last game that apparently no matter ****ing what I'm always suspicious, and it's always not the case. My posting etiquette may not be a best, but to nitpick that ****ing hard is honestly stupid and more like targeting, especially when the game hasn't fully started.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I don't think a first pyp is an excuse. This is my first pyp and it's just common sense to play the game with the time you're allotted. This seems to me more like trying to deflect rather than a newbie's first mistake.

Hey, you're welcome to keep it up, by all means, but we have plenty of time to do that in the day phase once we've decided on roles.

I'm thinking Nabe's onto something but I'll wait for Giraffel's answer first.

 

[giraffelasergun]

To clarify, if JK/RB A blocks JK/RB B, who blocks Role C, then Role C is never blocked, regardless of which of the two A is and which of the two B is. Is that correct?

If the role blocker blocks the jail keeper the jail keeper does not block his target.
If the jail keeper blocks the role blocker the role blocker does not block his target.

I think we’re saying the same thing I just wanted to write it out to be totally clear.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Just because Emma is your avatar, doesn't mean you can play detective.



But in all honestly, I don't understand what your trying to convey, nor do I think others will. And let's be honest after the last game, getting a town to work with you won't be easy lol.

I don't foresee that being a problem, so I'm surprised that you do.

But let me put this to you in a very different way than Seph, since presumably he hasn't read the previous game. Rather than classifying this as a nitpick, I would call it a specific concern, and it's about phrasing. When a player says, "I don't think people will understand you," and, "getting a town to work with you won't be easy," those are both phrases that could suggest to other players that I shouldn't be listened to, regardless of the actual content of my posts. So you can see how, if that player weren't you, you might look at that phrasing with that same specific concern. Right?

Also, if I were to tell you that you weren't the subject of that post, and that it was about what went on around you as an object, would that give you any interest or ideas in providing insight?