Rate And Discuss Their Chances: Closed

[kisamefishfries]

Ah, mewtwo the main legendary of the first generation. While I stand by my previous predictions of Zororak and with Mewtwo having not much chance I enjoyed him in Melee as one of the few characters who had a diagonal throw,
Want: 3.2
Likelihood: 3
Lets face it we all want him but putting his likelihood about 3.5 is madness. This spot is going to be dedicated to newer pokemon not nostalgic kinds, I doubt he could hey in, but it would be nice to have him. Predict with unclouded eyes.
I predict chibi robo with a 1.2

nominations
Lloyd Irving x3
Paper Mario x2

 

[DakotaBonez]

Although I'd like to see some pokemon that aren't generation 1, you can't deny how cool Mewtwo is. Up there with Charizard. One of the few legitimately evil pokemon (I dunno if Rayquaza is truly evil).
Seeing as how the only reasons he's not included are due to time constraints, seems like even the devs agree with him being in smash bros.

Want: 4.0
Likelihood: 3.5

Prediction for Chibi-Robo: 2.6

NOMINATIONS

Ness x5

 

[Deleted member]

@samusrules93: I would say that they have already undid cuts before from the roster (by that, I mean planned characters being cut that are brought back in another game). Mewtwo and Bowser were planned for Smash 64 due to time constraints but were removed. They both appeared in Melee. King Dedede was also planned for Smash 64 but didn't show up until Brawl.

There's also the matter that Mewtwo was planned for all three games, which could indicate that Sakurai wanted Mewtwo to be a staple of Smash, but other factors prevented it. Hopefully, Mewtwo returns and sticks.

Also, over representation shouldn't be a concern with Pokemon. It didn't stop Sakurai from adding six Pokemons in Brawl and I can see us getting two more 'mons to the roster.

Assuming that we get 53 characters (transformation included), we could keep Brawl's roster and add Mewtwo and a new Pokemon (Zoroark, Genesect, or 6th gen) while still having room for a fifth Mario rep (Toad, Bowser Jr., or Paper Mario), King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Ridley, Krystal, Samurai Goroh, Roy or Krom, Palutena, a retro rep (most likely Takamaru or Mach Rider)), two new series (Little Mac, Isaac, or Saki most likely) and another third-party (most likely Mega Man). Representation isn't exactly an issue here.

 

[jigglover]

Ok, SSBF, is it OK if I save my 10 extra nominations until after my holiday, since if I nominate someone 10 times now, I'll probably miss their voting time due to being on holiday.
On that note, could I ask everyone that Bowser jr. and Zoroark not be nominated largely during my holiday (until next Monday) please?
Edit: I'm so honoured that I'm the first person to predict the exact score. (Not really, but It'll be interesting to see if anyone ever does it again, I didn't think it would ever happen anyway.)

 

[Deleted member]

@jigglover: I cannot hold back a character because you are on vacation. If a character is up and you miss it, you miss it.

Also, you are free to use your extra nominations whenever you feel like it. So you can wait until you get back to use it.

 

[jigglover]

SSBF, you forgot to edit the OP, it still says Palutena's score before you added MelMoe's (forgot what it is 3.92 or something) just as a heads up.

 

[Deleted member]

SSBF, you forgot to edit the OP, it still says Palutena's score before you added MelMoe's (forgot what it is 3.92 or something) just as a heads up.

Fixed the OP.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Mewtwo:
Want : 5
Likelihood: 4.5
Mewtwo is the character cut from Melee that deserves to return the most. He's still one of the most popular Pokemon, not to mention probably THE most popular legendary(source: this IGN poll, where he came in number 2). Who else could get not one, but TWO films dedicated to him? He also continues to be featured prominently in spinoffs, including the recent Pokemon Conquest.


Nominations:
x2 Mega Man
x3 Bandana Dee

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Mewtwo-

Want: 5

Likelihood: Hard to put my finger on it, but I'd say somewhere in the neighborhood between 3.5 and 4.5 or so. Maybe a little higher than the latter, but I guess I'll go with 4.0. Most of what I have to say on the reasoning has already been said, but aside from his increased support, his opposition from the Melee/pre-Brawl days has diminished for the most part from what I've seen. It's still there, but not as dominant. I think he can coexist alongside Lucario, and Zoroark as well if he's in, though I'm not particularly worried at the moment about the latter's inclusion being at Mewtwo's expense.

Beyond that, Mewtwo's inclusion in SSB4 would be better than it ever would've been in Brawl if he had made it into that game since Psystrike, Psycho Cut, etc. didn't exist as PKMN moves during the pre-Brawl era, which needless to say gives him plenty more options for an improved moveset and more or less contributes to my likelihood rating for the genetic psychocat as well.

Not sure what remaining characters there are I'd want to nominate that haven't already been discussed in this thread..

Want: 1.12
Likelihood: 2.45

Honestly at this point Mewtwo is probably not going to return, especially considering it was already cut in one game, has a lot of competition for a slot, and is a pretty atrocious character in it's own right. Not to mention Game Freak is a bit hard to negotiate with considering their 2nd party status. The only thing going for it is it's abnormally large support from brainless baboons.

Ha HAA, you're one to talk.

 

[Deleted member]

Mewtwo:
Want : 5
Likelihood: 4.5
Mewtwo is the character cut from Melee that deserves to return the most. He's still one of the most popular Pokemon, not to mention probably THE most popular legendary(source: this IGN poll, where he came in number 2). Who else could get not one, but TWO films dedicated to him? He also continues to be featured prominently in spinoffs, including the recent Pokemon Conquest.


Nominations:
x2 Mega Man
x3 Bandana Dee

Technically, the same can be said for Victini since it also got two movies and it's one of those semi-frequently mentioned characters I am seriously willing to bet money against being playable. But you are right, it does show how popular Mewtwo is.

 

[Phaazoid]

@samusrules93: I would say that they have already undid cuts before from the roster (by that, I mean planned characters being cut that are brought back in another game). Mewtwo and Bowser were planned for Smash 64 due to time constraints but were removed. They both appeared in Melee. King Dedede was also planned for Smash 64 but didn't show up until Brawl.

There's also the matter that Mewtwo was planned for all three games, which could indicate that Sakurai wanted Mewtwo to be a staple of Smash, but other factors prevented it. Hopefully, Mewtwo returns and sticks.

Also, over representation shouldn't be a concern with Pokemon. It didn't stop Sakurai from adding six Pokemons in Brawl and I can see us getting two more 'mons to the roster.

Assuming that we get 53 characters (transformation included), we could keep Brawl's roster and add Mewtwo and a new Pokemon (Zoroark, Genesect, or 6th gen) while still having room for a fifth Mario rep (Toad, Bowser Jr., or Paper Mario), King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Ridley, Krystal, Samurai Goroh, Roy or Krom, Palutena, a retro rep (most likely Takamaru or Mach Rider)), two new series (Little Mac, Isaac, or Saki most likely) and another third-party (most likely Mega Man). Representation isn't exactly an issue here.

Wait, was mewtwo planned for brawl? man, I haven't been keeping up with smash news for years. Your other arguments are very convincing as well.

That would probably drastically change my opinion on his likelyhood. I might have to bump him up to a 3.

Oh, btw, I didn't get to vote for palutena, but I don't understand why people think she'll be in, even after reading the pages here on her. Pit was a retro rep. like ice climbers, G@W. they don't get second characters, so far. idk. I feel like it would break a pattern.

*edit googled and found mewtwo stuff lol

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Wait, was mewtwo planned for brawl? man, I haven't been keeping up with smash news for years. Would you be able to cite that? (as well as other planned non includee's?)

That would probably drastically change my opinion on his likelyhood.

Mewtwo was the most complete of the forbidden 7

 

[Deleted member]

@samusrules93: Yes, Mewtwo was planned for Brawl. He had the most data out of the Forbidden Seven (he did have a victory file and some other stuffs I can't remember). Sakurai also mentioned that he had other characters he wanted to put in Smash, but couldn't do so due to time, so it adds up.

As for Palutena, might want to check the support thread or hit up the Social General Roster Discussion Thread to discuss that as her day is over.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Technically, the same can be said for Victini since it also got two movies and it's one of those semi-frequently mentioned characters I am seriously willing to bet money against being playable. But you are right, it does show how popular Mewtwo is.

I haven't actually been keeping up with movies(or the anime) since after Gen III, and I did my research pretty quickly. Actually, he was one of the Pokemon who appeared in "The Mastermind of Mirage Pokémon", which I didn't count since the movie isn't dedicated to him, so technically you could say he had 3 movies.

 

[Deleted member]

I haven't actually been keeping up with movies(or the anime) since after Gen III, and I did my research pretty quickly. Actually, he was one of the Pokemon who appeared in "The Mastermind of Mirage Pokémon", which I didn't count since the movie isn't dedicated to him, so technically you could say he had 3 movies.

Victini didn't appeared in that one since that special appeared in 2006. Unless they had a new one released sometimes during the 5th gen.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Want:5- One of my fave pokemons ever

Likelyhood: 4.5: 2 (3 movies if you count the mirage one), new signiture move, one of the most popular characters on the planet.

Chibi-robo predictions 1.41

noms: Isaac x5

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Victini didn't appeared in that one since that special appeared in 2006. Unless they had a new one released sometimes during the 5th gen.

I think he was talking about Mewtwo appearing

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Mewtwo


Not much to say about Mewtwo: he's one of the most biggest characters when it comes to considering the returning characters. Being planned to appear in all Smash (at which he managed to appear in one), he's meant to be part of the cast. He's also the most popular (and also most character-driven) legendary, and is both requested heavily in both West and the East.

Personally, I'm not that interested to him, but I'm quite seeing him as one of the most likeliest returning characters to be added.

Want: 2.5
Likelyhood: 4.5

Predicting Chibi-Robo to get 1.41.

Noms:

Starfy x2

Saki x3

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Victini didn't appear in that one since that special appeared in 2006. Unless they had a new one released sometimes during the 5th gen.

I meant Mewtwo. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Also fixed some grammar for you.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Mewtwo?

Well, I would certainly want him in!

He's 1st gen Pokemon, and I'm a big fan of 1st gen. He's also a villain-esqie Pokemon, so it'd be great to have him back to fulfill that role again.
5/5 want.


Likelyhood? It's possible. Mewtwo has a big enough fanbase, I believe. Sakurai intended on bringing him back in Brawl. He's still a pretty relevant Pokemon, and his size and proportions are good for Smash.
3/5 Likelyhood to return.

 

[Deleted member]

Want: 1.12
Likelihood: 2.45

Honestly at this point Mewtwo is probably not going to return, especially considering it was already cut in one game, has a lot of competition for a slot, and is a pretty atrocious character in it's own right. Not to mention Game Freak is a bit hard to negotiate with considering their 2nd party status. The only thing going for it is it's abnormally large support from brainless baboons.

As for Chibi-robo, I'll throw out a simple 1.22.

Nominations are Starfy (x2), Megaman (x2), and Zoroark

Please don't count this vote. He's talking out his ***.

"Cut in one game". There is no rule that states scrapped characters can't return, let alone ones that would have been in the game with enough time. I guess we shouldn't be expect Bowser or Dedede to return. Afterall, both were cut from SSB64, and Dedede from Melee.
"has a lot of competition". Not really. Pokemon is fully capable of having two added characters, and what should we expect, TWO 5th Gens? Hardly. The 5th Gens are competition to each other; Mewtwo is in a whole different league.
"pretty atrocious character". Welp guys, Ganondorf shouldn't come back. He's a pretty atrocious character in his own right.
"Game Freak hard to negotiate". What does Game Freak have to do with this? Mewtwo was cut due to time. Aside from that, Game Freak has been advertising Mewtwo out the wazoo as of late. If anything, they'd probably DEMAND Sakurai to put Mewtwo back in.
"abnormally large support from brainless baboons". [CONTENT REMOVED TO AVOID MODERATION] It's one thing to dislike a character and be foolish with your words, but to insult others because they aren't as closed minded makes you pathetic.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

One point I think he has, it might be hard for Sakurai to consider Mewtwo since he's already been left out of one game

 

[Deleted member]

One point I think he has, it might be hard for Sakurai to consider Mewtwo since he's already been left out of one game

For time.
Also, didn't stop him from considering Bowser and Dedede.

Habanero has no point. None whatsoever.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I haven't actually been keeping up with movies(or the anime) since after Gen III, and I did my research pretty quickly. Actually, he was one of the Pokemon who appeared in "The Mastermind of Mirage Pokémon", which I didn't count since the movie isn't dedicated to him, so technically you could say he had 3 movies.

I remember that Mirage Pokemon episode. The best part about it probably was when the Mirage Mewtwo obliterated the Mirage Mew. The former was nigh invincible and only lost due to a stupid plot device, but it had attacks Mewtwo normally couldn't have himself in-game, and was a lot more physical than the real anime Mewtwo.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mirage_Pokémon

Him having things like the Quick Attack, Mega Punch, etc. as listed would make for some good Smash material IMO, as part of some of the physical moves for his moveset. Oh, and before anyone thinks to speak out against the idea, Mewtwo normally can't learn Teleport in the PKMN metagame himself either, yet he had it as a special in Melee.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

Well, if we are "mindless baboons" for supporting Mewtwo, I wonder what are the people who support characters such as Mr. Peepers or Starfy.


...

 

[Starphoenix]

Well this is going to end well...

 

[FlareHabanero]

What the point of getting flustered in a dandy game like this?
Seems like a waist of time and energy to me.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Your concession is well accepted.

 

[Starphoenix]

What the point of getting flustered in a dandy game like this?
Seems like a waist of time and energy to me.

Don't agree with your opinion, but I respect this.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

What's a dandy game? Sounds interesting.

 

[BKupa666]

Does anyone know how popular Mewtwo is among casuals? Roy clearly is widely used by that demographic because of 't3h ph1r3', but I haven't sensed the same sort of fanbase for Mewtwo. By casuals, I don't mean message board users, because that fanbase goes without saying.

No one addressed this yet, but if it's a choice between including Mewtwo or Lucario, Sakurai might opt for the latter, simply because he's more fresh in casuals' minds. I still think Pokemon won't have three characters over Mario (or even four, if the latter receives no newcomer). Even if we're not comparing those top two series, Sakurai has gone on record saying he doesn't want to saturate the roster with their characters. I do think a line will be drawn sooner or later, at the expense of either Mewtwo or Lucario.

Referring to someone as a 'boob' for supporting an awesome character? Don't SWF users have to be at least 13 years of age?

 

[Deleted member]

@GoldenYuiitusin: Habanero's vote does count. While I disagree with his opinion on Mewtwo and feel his reasoning is flawed, he actually explained why he feels Mewtwo's chances are lower than we think and that is enough that I expect out of a vote.

What I do not accept is flaming other people, which by you telling Habanero to go "**** himself", is what falls under flaming. Please don't do this again.

 

[Starphoenix]

Does anyone know how popular Mewtwo is among casuals? Roy clearly is widely used by that demographic because of 't3h ph1r3', but I haven't sensed the same sort of fanbase for Mewtwo. By casuals, I don't mean message board users, because that fanbase goes without saying.

Considering I work with 26 year old men who don't play SSB (or Pokémon for that matter) that know and like Mewtwo, probably say it's better than you think. There is a reason Mewtwo is one of the top most requested characters, globally, for the next Smash,

No one addressed this yet, but if it's a choice between including Mewtwo or Lucario, Sakurai might opt for the latter, simply because he's more fresh in casuals' minds. I still think Pokemon won't have three characters over Mario (or even four, if the latter receives no newcomer). Even if we're not comparing those top two series, Sakurai has gone on record saying he doesn't want to saturate the roster with their characters. I do think a line will be drawn sooner or later, at the expense of either Mewtwo or Lucario.

Or how about we just have Mewtwo and Lucario? I hope everyone realizes that is the likeliest situation.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Does anyone know how popular Mewtwo is among casuals? Roy clearly is widely used by that demographic because of 't3h ph1r3', but I haven't sensed the same sort of fanbase for Mewtwo. By casuals, I don't mean message board users, because that fanbase goes without saying.

I think that IGN poll I cited shows he's still popular.

And I know people don't like it when this argument gets used, but all my casual friends LOVED Mewtwo.

 

[Deleted member]

Or how about we just have Mewtwo and Lucario? I hope everyone realizes that is the likeliest situation.

I actually do agree with this, but I'll throw in my own reason once we get to Zoroark (as he'll inevitably be the first Pokemon newcomer up for voting). And this is coming from someone that would be ecstatic to see a Pokemon newcomer.

@BKupa666: Basically what shinpichu said. Mewtwo was #2 on that poll, Lucario was in the 30s, and Zoroark was in the 60s. There was also over ten million votes, which is a great representation of what people like.

I am going to sleep. Result will be announced tomorrow very early in the morning before I go to work. You may continue to rate and discuss Mewtwo until then and while I sleep, please prevent another flaming incident.

Thank you.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Considering I work with 26 year old men who don't play SSB (or Pokémon for that matter) that know and like Mewtwo, probably say it's better than you think. There is a reason Mewtwo is one of the top most requested characters, globally, for the next Smash,

I can relate to knowing people like that who like him too, as well as casual players who loved using him in Melee. Sometimes because of that, I think Mewtwo would be cooler or more liked to some other people if he wasn't a Pokemon, ironically.

@GoldenYuiitusin: Habanero's vote does count. While I disagree with his opinion on Mewtwo and feel his reasoning is flawed, he actually explained why he feels Mewtwo's chances are lower than we think and that is enough that I expect out of a vote.

What I do not accept is flaming other people, which by you telling Habanero to go "**** himself", is what falls under flaming. Please don't do this again.

And what Habanero referred to Mewtwo supporters as wasn't flaming, my good sir? Kinda odd that you call out Golden for his flaming and not Habanero, who was the one that drew first blood in this discussion, but I suppose I'm digressing.

 

[Deleted member]

Depends, is he going to basically call me and nearly everyone on this board a "brainless baboon" again?
That alone should be the sole reason his vote doesn't count.

EDIT: Funny, all this time I never quite understood the definiton of "digress". I ought to look it up.
EDIT2: "Leave the main subject temporarily in speech or writing." Ah, I see.

 

[Phaazoid]

basically, leave flame war crap outta this thread, it's for people who wanna play a fun game, take it to the PM's plox :D

we love all of you

 

[BKupa666]

I'm not going to attempt to use casual popularity as an argument for or against Mewtwo, I was just interested in hearing this thread's perspectives.

Because I consider a 5th generation Pokemon a lock, alongside Pikachu, PT and Jigglypuff, I do not think Mewtwo -and- Lucario will both return for the reasons I previously mentioned.

Here's the exact quote, from a 2008 Nintendo Power interview. Because of this mindset, I doubt Pokemon will have three more characters than the second highest represented series.

As far as choosing which characters, we had to really look at the series that would be represented in the game and create a balance that would make fans of all the series happy. We didn't want to have all Mario characters, all Pokemon characters... We looked at each series and tried to pick the characters that would have the widest appeal to the largest fan base.

Granted, while I do think there are reasons Mewtwo could be left out, I think he's close to shoo-in territory at this point, if not already in it. It's Lucario whose position is in jeopardy, the way I see it.

 

[Deleted member]

That is, if Sakurai finds a 5th Gen viable.

I mean, Sakurai didn't see any of the popular 2nd Gens to be viable during Melee's time, and Pichu was added soley to help boost the Roster by being a cheap clone.