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Rate crash's luigi: Self gimps ahoy.

CR4SH

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
1,814
Location
Louisville Ky.
New stuff from me, I'm getting better all the time, but I'm still not as good as many of you. This stuff is from the regional circuit event in ohio. My opponent is bloodhawk, the best lucario in the midwest.

I'd love to hear your comments and critiques. This is my best stuff, aside from the fact that I flat out ruined my own recovery twice. Comments on that front are welcome, but won't do anyone any good lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdQr2wupFz4
 

LuigiKing

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
1,304
Location
Towson MD/Moscow ID
Hey good stuff dude, your spacing is getting pretty beast. The self gimps were a bit much though >_< But it happens to everyone.

Anyway I like how you were doing Dair -> Fireball. I <3 this setup. Umm.... its 1 in the morning here so my mind is sort of broken right now. I think you should try out a little crawldashing too, its pretty neet with Ftilt spacing. Aaaah and needz moar Usmash homie. Much more. But that was a good Lucario and you played pretty solid when you weren't destroying yourself =p

Looking forward to more vids!
 

CR4SH

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
1,814
Location
Louisville Ky.
Prodding for more input; where would you put those usmashes? Generally the places I would put a usmash get shut down by lucario's dair. But I would love to hear some other ideas (I.E. Times when your opponent isn't coming down on top of you, or directly behind you) As for crawldashing, I really haven't tried it at all honestly, I've been working on my zss game, and my weeg fundamentals. I suppose that's next on my list =D.
 

elheber

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
Messages
1,074
Location
Los Angeles, California
NNID
elheber
No you can't uSmash a good Lucario. But you can sometimes OoS uSmash or Shield to uTilt. Moreover, I would have loved to see some Hyphen Smashes if we're gonna talk about uSmashes. Crawldashing isn't a super great AT, IMHO. I bet one could be the best Luigi in the world and not know how to crawldash.

Lemme start off by saying, that was some good Luigi handling you did there. Spacing, sheilding, timing spotdodges... your defensive game is pretty tight. And you mix up your shorthops really well too; I saw you pull off pretty much every move in Luigi's shorthop handbook.

Strategy-wise, I would really like to point out 0:48-0:54... Lucario was at 88% and you did only a single technique; Spotdodge Up-Tilted fSmash. And then you celebrated the KO with some rapid-fire Up-Tilted fSmashes to let him know how dangerous you are when he's at 80%. I think you could have really capitalized on that. Whenever he'd get around 80%, you could have throw a couple of 'em at him so he'd think twice about aproaching you and take him out of his comfort zone.

Recovery-wise, you have some issues. One problem is our (everyone's) instinct to want to recover ASAP when we get launched off, so we hold the control stick to the direction of the stage as soon as we finish DIing. What happens is 0:58-1:04, 2:20-KO, and 2:54-KO. You had pretty low damage on all those examples and even the first one could have been a KO too. My point is, you do some pretty good spacing on the ground... why not in the air? Luigi is one of the few characters, such as MK and DDD, that can delay his recovery if he wants to. You can, while falling, tilt the analog away from the stage if the opponent is coming toward you and avoid the certain WoP.

That Lucario was a beast. You were gonna take damage no matter what. You did a really good job of avoiding his KO moves. The only way you could have done better is by getting KO'd a little later. Recovering well could have been the little nudge that'd put you just over the top.

I know I made a pretty long post; but if you notice, I only had two complaints. That's a great Luigi you have there.
 

Delta_BP26

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
Messages
606
Location
NYC
What the hell was with the end of the second game? XD

Anyway, your recoveries were bad. Err, work on that.
 

hippiedude92

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
5,981
Location
Wishing Apex 2012 happened again.
OOS upsmash trades off with Luc`s dair, but Luc receives a bigger blow due to its bigger hitbox, knockback.

Elh`s post on the Fsmash mindgames er conditioning, was impressive forgot all bout it.

Crash should be lucky fighting one of the best in MW :)
 

CR4SH

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
1,814
Location
Louisville Ky.
Strategy-wise, I would really like to point out 0:48-0:54... Lucario was at 88% and you did only a single technique; Spotdodge Up-Tilted fSmash. And then you celebrated the KO with some rapid-fire Up-Tilted fSmashes to let him know how dangerous you are when he's at 80%.
Not to mention when I celebrated with the fsmashes I sang a little "disco weegee, disco weegee" lol.Why I did that? I know bloodhawk, and I know he hasn't seen that **** before. So I figured, as long as he's going to try to grab me out of my spot dodge, I'm gonna keep making it dangerous. I wouldn't do that again =P.

Otherwise thats really great stuff elh. I'll definetly keep those points in mind next time I step up to a controller. I really do need to back off the wops, not to mention I wasted my jump in it.
 

ALiAsVee

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
739
Err one thing you can do with the hyphen upsmash that works in the same way as the Fsmash is to threaten your opponent with it. The instinct your opponent has against an hyphen upsmash is to shield or sidestep and then punish the ending lag. One thing my friend Dusty (as Mario) and I did at one of Inui's tourneys in princeton was HOLD the hyphen upsmash.

In the high paced game of brawl (lol, i said high paced and brawl in the same sentence) smashes are thrown out quickly to reduce dead time (time you can't do anything...lag? w.e). Your opponents are tuned to these kind of smashes and have the reflex of defend and punish.

Idk if you know my snapshot theory, but the general gist of it is to probe your opponent's reactions given certain situations. If you throw out a fireball, he'll likely powershield/shield. If you buffer something out of a short hop, do they counter attack, shield, spot dodge, or roll away if they are within range? Stuff like that.

In the case of the hyphen upsmash, if you find your opponent side stepping these, you can trick them by holding the smash while you slide. At Inui's tournament, I caught LOADS of people with this. I find myself getting caught in this all the time, and I'm fully aware of this strategy. It's reflex, and it's pretty **** hard to compensate for your opponent charging their smashes to throw you off.

Unless you're metaknight, who can just downsmash in answer to every situation.

Say you mix this strategy up...you have your opponent retreating to their shield. This becomes a game of shield pressuring now, and you have a high reward low/medium risk in doing so. You charge your hyphen smash the second stock after killing him the first time. Your opponent will not likely sidestep the second time, because this gets beat. He'll either shield or roll away. Varying the lengths you charge your smashes puts your opponent on the offense, which can be used to your advantage.

Of course this isn't an end all be all strategy, but you're sure to catch people by surprise by mixing it up.

Oh I'm sure EVERYONE does this :p (Sarcasm on internetz? can't tell you if it's true or not).

Oh yeah, I kind of sidetracked with the upsmash discussion, i'll rate your video later, just wanted to answer your "when should you use it" question...even though i don't think i did xD>
 

TheMann

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
824
Location
Michigan
Yup Cr4sh you are constantly improving. I'm still mad we didnt get to play at circuits but there'll be more. Your spacing has improved and use of kill moves. I have only one question though. Why did you counter pick rainbow cruise? That level is awful for weegee lol. Well at least to me it is.
 

elheber

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
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1,074
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Los Angeles, California
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elheber
I don't know why he picked it (he's probably just really comfortable with it), but I bet Rainbow Cruise is worse for Lucario than for Luigi anyway.
 

CR4SH

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
1,814
Location
Louisville Ky.
Why did I pick RC?

Well, usually I pick one of three metroid stages. For some reason he knew to ban brinstar against me (seems to be more and more prevalent a move by my opponents), and for WHATEVER reason, I don't remember, I decided against norfair. Why did I do that? goofy. Also, I didn't want to take him to frigate, because that's one of luc's best stages, the wall cling shennanigans are stupid and I didn't want to deal with them. A couple people I know that play lucario HATE RC, so I figured why not.

Not to mention when I lose the neutral to people who are somewhat better than I am, I tend to go into "**** it, I'm just gonna have fun" mode.
 

zhao_guang

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
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1,118
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Nova Scotia, Canada
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zhaoguang1
Norfair is an extremely overrated Luigi counterpick in my opinion. I've heard that Lucario doesn't mix well with RC either, so smart CP.
 

Delvro

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
530
Location
Lexington, KY
Why did I pick RC?

Well, usually I pick one of three metroid stages. For some reason he knew to ban brinstar against me (seems to be more and more prevalent a move by my opponents), and for WHATEVER reason, I don't remember, I decided against norfair. Why did I do that? goofy. Also, I didn't want to take him to frigate, because that's one of luc's best stages, the wall cling shennanigans are stupid and I didn't want to deal with them. A couple people I know that play lucario HATE RC, so I figured why not.

Not to mention when I lose the neutral to people who are somewhat better than I am, I tend to go into "**** it, I'm just gonna have fun" mode.
Norfair is a GREAT stage for Lucario... you made a good choice, believe me. Not goofy.

This is from the guy that picks norfair no matter what
 
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