Raziek's Robin Research Room & Repository (Moveset, Mechanics & Frame Data!)

[Raziek]

25 vs. 0 - 16 (front), 20 (back)
50 vs. 0 - 24 (front), 29 (back)
75 vs. 0 - 32 (front), 38 (back)
100 vs. 0 - 40 (front), 48 (back)
75 vs. 25 - 24 (front), 29 (back)
999 vs. 0 - 326 (LOL)

Based on some trial and error, Nosferatu heals you for approximately 13% (from the front, no mashing) + [(Your HP - Opponent's HP) * 1/3].

It gets a bit wonky when the numbers get large because smash likes to use invisible partial percentages.

Neither Nos2 or Nos3 scale AT ALL.

Nos1 confirmed the best.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

Nosferatu 1 definitely seems like it has the most going for it. The healing is just too good to pass up and the short range doesn't seem like an issue due it being a command grab.

 

[Unicorn]

Hmm so we are like the White Mage variant of Lucario... The more damage we take, the closer we get to becoming Super Saiyan healers. This discovery seemingly makes Nos1 the best choice by far. Healing for 30 percent can be backbreaking for the enemy at those high percents when it's a pain to get a kill.

Also thanks a ton Raziek for all this great info and these vids. It's really hard to learn anything new about Robin by watching the streams.

 

[•Col•]

I feel like the scaling on Nosferatu may be correlated to the new 'Rage Effect' recently discovered in Smash 4.. They have a similar idea behind them (the higher your %, the more effective a move becomes)..

 

[Delzethin]

Wow, this is a hell of a find. At first I thought opponents took damage equal to what we healed, and I was psyched as hell. Then I found out only the healing scaled, and now I'm...only a little less psyched. Unlike what I initially thought, we can't use it to give us a massive advantage if we get a stock lead, but it does let us get more mileage out of a stock lead, which is still huge.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

Wow, this is a hell of a find. At first I thought opponents took damage equal to what we healed, and I was psyched as hell. Then I found out only the healing scaled, and now I'm...only a little less psyched. Unlike what I initially though, we can't use it to give us a massive advantage if we get a stock lead, but it does let us get more mileage out of a stock lead, which is still huge.

Damage scaling would, unfortunately, be totally overbearing and probably very overpowered. The healing scaling is really nice, though; both the ability of characters to stay alive for a fair amount of time and his ability to safely rack up damage from a distance mean that opponents will have to be very afraid of Nosferatu when Robin is at high percent. I can already see the frustration as Robin constantly resets his health down to below 100% while opponents slowly get bumped up by Thunders and Arcfires.

 

[Raziek]

That rage effect business also explains why I was getting much higher kill values for B-throw, jab and the like.

 

[slimjim]

Robin doesn't get angry though Raziek, he just gets even.

 

[Raziek]

Robin doesn't get angry though Raziek, he just gets even.

So true. Choice quote from the Skype group last night while I was testing:

[12:42:06 AM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: "Robin, why are you blowing yourself up with Bob-ombs?"
"SCIENCE!"
[12:42:19 AM] wallchicken: XD
[12:44:15 AM] shrooby: "I can only blow myself up so many times. Which is why I carry my Nosferatu tome!"
[12:44:20 AM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: (y)

 

[Iron Maw]

Elwind in the right hands can be deadly. Sometimes when I try to edge-guard with it, it'll just bounce them up. However, occasionally it'll launch them sideways into the side of the stage and they'll fly down and get KO'd. Even less frequently, they'll fly with the Elwind and get dragged down. It's not reliable per se, but if you can use it safely without leaving Robin vulnerable, I say go for it. Worst case scenario, you still deal ~10% to them (or you save them, but in that case, you shouldn't use it at all). Also, the trick is to aim nearer to Robin's body with it. I find myself miscalculating all the time and accidentally floating too high up and missing them completely. (EDIT: I've been experimenting in training mode with it and it's hard to hit with, but it's much easier to do so on a stage with a box shape, like Gerudo Valley's Final Destination. This makes even the sideways hits much more deadly since they'll bounce off the stage's edge and fly downwards often)

However, I've meteor smashed/spiked (I'm not sure of the difference but the opponent went straight down) with Levin Sword Dair. Yeah, it can launch the enemy sideways (sometimes for a nice KO), but if you get the timing right, it can send them plummeting downwards. I almost prefer it to Elwind as an edge-guarding tool. I haven't seen this mentioned here...

Thanks for answering. I guess I can try alternating between Levin D-Smash and Elwind depending on how far the other player is and see how that works before committing to one of the two.

 

[Fire Tactician]

Thanks for answering. I guess I can try alternating between Levin D-Smash and Elwind depending on how far the other player is and see how that works before committing to one of the two.

That was a few days ago, and after a lot of Robin playing, I can say that Levin Dair is much more reliable than Elwind. That said, Elwind does have its uses, but much less so after you've figured out how to Levin Dair correctly.

 

[sunfallSeraph]

Thanks for answering. I guess I can try alternating between Levin D-Smash and Elwind depending on how far the other player is and see how that works before committing to one of the two.

I think the Elwind edgeguard, while promising, will need to be viewed through the risk/reward lens due to tome durability. If the opponent manages to cross up with their recovery and get Robin offstage, you could really end up missing those extra uses, especially at high percents when it will be more difficult to regain stage control. From watching some early matches between veteran players, it does look like a strong edgeguard game will be enough to stall Robin out of Elwind uses. I suspect using it to edgeguard may be more profitable when Robin is at lower percents and not at high risk of gimping strats.

 

[Soft Serve]

Does Robins Bair turn him around?

 

[Fire Tactician]

Robin doesn't get angry though Raziek, he just gets even.

Is it bad that this picture is what convinced me to get a Japanese 3DS?

It's interesting that people have been complaining about being brought up to high percentages before getting KO'd, but now suddenly they're finding out that these high percentages will make it easier for them to KO. I've also gotten last minute KOs with Arcfire, so this could explain why.

 

[slimjim]

Does Robins Bair turn him around?

Nope.

Is it bad that this picture is what convinced me to get a Japanese 3DS?

Nope. I would have gotten a japanese 3ds if they weren't gone on japanese amazon. : /

Further questioning: Does 1 up-b consume 2 elwind durability points since it fires 2 shots?

And what are y'all's thoughts on a Robin/Ness team for doubles. Lucas/ZSS was good (until the Anubis strat came out) since ZSS could heal Lucas with spammed dsmashes. Now since Robin has an energy projectile side-b, neutral b, and up-b, we have a lot of options able to heal a ness buddy. Also if he's at low percents and we're high, hello nosferatu healing. Of course the damage the ness gained would be healed off from our projectiles afterwards. Thoughts?

 

[Raziek]

Not a bad theory for the doubles team. I could see it, for sure.

As for the Elwins question, it's 9 uses where you shoot both blasts. So technically 18 if you count them individually.

Single uses should only ever really happen if you get hit or are using Elwind3, I think .

 

[Fire Tactician]

Does Robins Bair turn him around?

No?... Let me check... nope, it doesn't.

Nope.

Nope. I would have gotten a japanese 3ds if they weren't gone on japanese amazon. : /

Further questioning: Does 1 up-b consume 2 elwind durability points since it fires 2 shots?

And what are y'all's thoughts on a Robin/Ness team for doubles. Lucas/ZSS was good (until the Anubis strat came out) since ZSS could heal Lucas with spammed dsmashes. Now since Robin has an energy projectile side-b, neutral b, and up-b, we have a lot of options able to heal a ness buddy. Also if he's at low percents and we're high, hello nosferatu healing. Of course the damage the ness gained would be healed off from our projectiles afterwards. Thoughts?

Well, sorry about that... I was part of the problem... Have a sheep.



Nope, Elwind's two shots only count as one usage.

I like that idea and might play with it myself- I like Ness and a friend of mine wants to use Robin too. PK Fire would be great for setting up Robin's Levin Sword attacks too. Robin has so many stunning moves but is too slow to reach some opponents, so I think that characters who hit like trucks would be great partners too (Ike comes to mind first), but Ness also has some solid attacks that he wouldn't mind letting Robin set up.

 

[slimjim]

As for the Elwind question, it's 9 uses where you shoot both blasts. So technically 18 if you count them individually.

Single uses should only ever really happen if you get hit or are using Elwind3, I think .

I figured it might be something worth noting since our wind jab consumes durability in increments of 1. So it may happen theoretically that our up-B runs out of durability between the two blasts. Useful info to know.

EDIT: If you guys couldn't tell, I was a theoretical physics major in college, and I'll be contributing heavily to the development of the Robin metagame once the US version debuts. Until then, I'll just be probing with questions about durability semantics and tournament tactics. QQ

 

[Hong]

Ah, so theoretically, if you ledge-stall with Elwind, you could only consume one casting (or a half, depending on how you look at it).

EDIT: If you guys couldn't tell, I was a theoretical physics major in college, and I'll be contributing heavily to the development of the Robin metagame once the US version debuts. Until then, I'll just be probing with questions about durability semantics and tournament tactics. QQ

And you represent The Swarm. I like you.

 

[Phantomshadows]

What are good ways to use Nosferatu? Whatever video I see of people playing Robin barely use the move.

 

[slimjim]

And you represent The Swarm. I like you.

<3

What are good ways to use Nosferatu? Whatever video I see of people playing Robin barely use the move.

Welcome to the boards! (And maybe think about using a font color that is a tad bit more readable)
1) Catch them in an airdodge frametrap
2) Jab --> nosferatu
3) They tech on a platform? Nosferatu.
4) Bait a counter from a sword-user? Nosferatu.
5) Read a roll? NOSFERATU.

 

[Soft Serve]

What are good ways to use Nosferatu? Whatever video I see of people playing Robin barely use the move.

If you send them up and they land on a platform, use it to platform tech chase if you can't Uair them and kill.

 

[False Sense]

What are good ways to use Nosferatu? Whatever video I see of people playing Robin barely use the move.

Judging by the recent discovery of the scaling mechanic, I'd say save it for right after you've taken the opponent down a stock, leaving them at 0% and while you'll likely have a fairly high damage percentage. The large difference in damage between you and the opponent would allow you to make the most out of the move's healing and give you a good lead.

Also, I'd assume that most people barely use the move due to not being familiar with how to really use Robin and Nosferatu just yet. Once people become more familiar with the game and get more skilled with using Robin, I think the move will see a bit more frequent usage.

 

[Hong]

What are good ways to use Nosferatu? Whatever video I see of people playing Robin barely use the move.

It's a command grab.

A command grab in Smash Bros is HUGE, because you can use it while airborne. See, one of the most basic counters to an aerial attacker while you are grounded in Smash Bros is to shield them, and then grab them while they are in landing lag.

A command grab throws this all out the window, because you grab them as you land, punishing their shield.

The same is true for Inhale, Wario's Chomp, and Koopa Claw. as you can use these moves to get around defences.

 

[Phantomshadows]

Sweet this helps a lot. Thanks.

 

[ADAPT Chance]

Interesting finds and really useful information in this thread.

Didn't know about the Rage aspect in Smash 4 till now.

 

[Raziek]

It's a command grab.

A command grab in Smash Bros is HUGE, because you can use it while airborne. See, one of the most basic counters to an aerial attacker while you are grounded in Smash Bros is to shield them, and then grab them while they are in landing lag.

A command grab throws this all out the window, because you grab them as you land, punishing their shield.

The same is true for Inhale, Wario's Chomp, and Koopa Claw. as you can use these moves to get around defences.

Bingo!

 

[Conda]

Healing means a character can stay at a higher % for longer on average without heading into the 'beyond the line' kill-point. It's not a brand new mechanic, but Rage Effect makes it more useful to heal - because you can stay buffed, yet not at 'kill' %, for an extra bit of the match on average.

 

[Delzethin]

Combine that with how Robin kills earlier than average and we may have someone that reaches Lucario levels of giving fits to characters who have trouble killing.

 

[Raziek]

Found the Meteor on Elwind! It's on Robin's hand when she shoots the first Windslash. Works for both Elwind1 and Elwind3. Didn't bother testing Elwind2 at the moment.

 

[isoZero]

I'm fairly certain your percentages are wrong, OP.

Thunder = 5%
Elthunder = 15%
Arcthunder = 25%
Thoron = 40%

If you run your tests with these percentages, I think you'll find I'm removed all your wiggle room. There's no more breaking at 92% or whatever with my values.

 

[Raziek]

That's probably right. I didn't test it suuuuuuper carefully.

Will verify, update and credit after I get home from work.

 

[slimjim]

Combine that with how Robin kills earlier than average and we may have someone that reaches Lucario levels of giving fits to characters who have trouble killing.

Hence why I've been a large proponent of using 3-stocks instead of 2; gives us a higher % of the match played in our advantage zone. ; )

And I also hope that this gives us a tool against Sheik because she very well looks like a character that could give us a lot of trouble and she's going to be quite popular in the competitive scene...

EDIT: Also Raz or Fire Tactician, any chance we could get some frame data rolling up in here? Would be great to know when some of Robin's hitboxes start and how the endlag frames are. Need to know what aerial to spam to get us out of juggles, as well as options out of shield. BSuair especially important to know endlag and hitbox windows for since it will likely be combo-able.

 

[Raziek]

I have no means of accurately obtaining frame data at this time. However , I have a friend who has promised record Robin's frame data withina few days of the actual launch.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Dunno if it's been mentioned here already or not, but there ya go.

 

[PK Gaming]

According to the commentators on the smash_24 stream, the ZSS infinite against Robin was also fixed in the recent patch that fixed Peach in For Glory.

I hope it's true.

 

[Hong]

I really think they are more in-tune to public voice than people give them credit for.

I know that many of the folks over at Bandai Namco can be super competitive and passionate about fighting games. All it takes is one person to notice it being discussed somewhere to bring it up. Not to mention the fact that the folks at Treehouse can notice it being discussed on big forums, such as SmashBoards and NeoGAF. It was more likely to be fixed than not.

 

[Raziek]

Ooh, neat! Tomes do have a hitbox as well. Will add.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Makes me assume the sword also has a hitbox.

I'll leave that one for you to find out

xoxo

 

[Raziek]

Makes me assume the sword also has a hitbox.

I'll leave that one for you to find out

xoxo

It does. Already found it.

xoxo