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Really, how could you switch to brawl now.

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GreenKirby

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People already found a possible new AT in TWO FREAKING DAYS! >_>

And most people here are being just as bad as those on the Brawl boards. Such hypocrites.

Brawl Boards: WAHHHHHH! THE GAME WILL SUCK WITH THEM
Here: WAHHHHHHHHHH! THE GAME WILL SUCK WITHOUT THEM

And then, it's everything else they say.

Self proclaimed pros: Without wavedashing Luigi will suck.
Me: Uhhh hello? Odds are Luigi is gonna be CHANGED! Idiots!

Self proclaimed pros: Brawl will suck without the AT
Me: Didn't Gimpy said that the game was 'freaking fun?' Also he already found like the new ATs. >_>

Self proclaimed glitch avoiders: LOL glitches are gone
Me: Result from something =/= glitch

Self proclaim glitch avoiders: Without wavedashing, I now have a chance
Me: There not pros soley for wavedash you know. Prepare to get *****
 

IstariAsuka

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
Messages
27
Location
Tucson, AZ
Brawl will be superior to melee in every way and *gasp* Melee was meant to be a party game too. :O Those who deny this are, in a nutshell, ignorant.
Why are we guaranteed that Brawl will be superior to Melee in every way? This is just a foolish statement. It is very often the case that sequels are generally regarded as inferior to their predecessors, and even if about par or even better, often certain aspects aren't as good.

That's basically the argument here. No matter how good Brawl turns out to be of its own accord, it seems like it would have been better with wavedashing left in. Wavedashing brings all softs of options into the game that otherwise don't exist, as M2K, amongst others, has pointed out already in several threads. Even if we assume that WDing wouldn't be as important in Brawl as it is in Melee, like Gimpy and others have postulated, that doesn't mean that it would be worthless.

Unless WDing would somehow... just break Brawl in half with brokenness, which given the gameplay we've seen it's very hard to think that it would, then there seems to have been no legitimate reason to remove it other than a preference for momentum-based airdodging to directional airdodging by the development team. Now, personally I'm of the opinion that direcitonal airdodging is probably a generally deeper tactic than this new momentum-based airdodge, being able to be used to recovery, movement stopping (WD down out of dash, for instance), triangle jumping, and etc. Even if this isn't the case, and it turns out that momentum airdodging is actually really cool and interesting, then I'd still hold that it doesn't outweigh the benefits of the old airdodge system AND the ability to WD, combined.

Everyone knows Brawl is a new game, with new mechanics, and new techs. That's totally irrelevant to the argument though, so why people keep harping on it is beyond me. The core of the argument is simply that the removal of the WD removes a host of options from Brawl, adversely affecting the game. Whether or not Brawl is better than Melee despite this doesn't matter. It's simply saying "hey, it'd have been EVEN AWESOMER if WD was in there with all that other awesomeness, too."

As for L-cancelling, it was a mere technical barrier in the game. You always wanted to l-cancel. So, removing it doesn't lessen strategy in any way. Yes, it removes the punishment game from missed l-cancels. But, honestly, that was a very niche since good players so rarely miss l-cancels, and honestly, pure technicality doesn't make for an interesting multiplayer game. So, while it is a bit aggravating, and to some small extent effects the competitive game by no more possibility for missed l-cancels, the net effect is really very negligible. Removing it really does make a lot of sense and is justifiable, even if it's not everyone's personal preference; and in the end it doesn't matter that much anyways.

Other things that were added to the game, such as auto-sweetspotting, also seem to me to have dumbed down gameplay unnecessarily as well, not merely the removal of WD. Basically, it seems a case of confused game design. Why is Sakurai removing strategic elements of the game for no good reason? Before you yell at me, yes, probably we'll see a good reason for some of the changes eventually. But are you going to tell me with a straight face that all these changes are actually good? I doubt it. Sakurai seems to be too obsessed with his "vision" for the game and how it ought to be played to see that maybe, just maybe, some of the unintended features of previous games actually made the games better. I've seen this problem in other game designers as well. Most game designers simply are not competitive gamers, and so don't fully grasp the negative consequences of some of their changes. It seems like a good idea to them, since it fits into their framework of how they think the game should play, or it's just "cool," but they don't understand the full ramifications to high-end gameplay, often the result of changes that, to their mindset, are absolutely trivial.

I mean, just see the Brawl forum and you'll witness this in many of the random scrub posters. They simply don't grasp how a change they see as ridiculously minor could negatively impact the game in any meaningful way, and so think that players complaining about removal of the WD are simply *****ing because they are afraid of change. It's a matter of perspective. They just don't get that what they see as really minor has far-reaching consequences to high-end play. It's hard to grasp subtleties in any game when you're so far from that level of play yourself. And I think that's the problem we're now facing with Sakurai, and why we're seeing so many potentially disappointing changes. And this is why I think every development team needs a legitimate ridiculously skilled player on-staff in any competitive game, but now I'm going on a tangent.
 

Red Exodus

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I don't plan to play Brawl competitively, I plan to continue playing Melee competitively after Brawl comes out because even if there is a competitive side it will take years to develop.
 

NES n00b

Smash Master
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May 19, 2007
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Oxford, Mississippi. . . . permanent n00b
IstariAsuka. Thank you. I have been saying that for awhile about how do we know Brawl will be better and that alot strats have been removed so don't be "it doesn't matter cause it is a neew game."

However, everything might work in the end anyways. Maybe it will be more deep because of glitches, exploits of new mechanics and physics, and more intersting character movesets and matchups. We will just have to wait and see.
 

Shadower

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
32
Location
Florida, USA
No L cancelling.

Ill play brawl, it looks sooo fun, but heck no I am not going to compete in a smash game with no L cancelling.

Automatic = no miss = less of a game = boring for competitive play.

Do what you will, Im not trying to preach here, I just wanna find out what you guys think now that we know what the damage is.
You'll be missing out if you can't learn to get over it now that we have stuff to replace it.
 

Red Exodus

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Competitive play doesn't just stop when a new game comes out, it's perfectly normal for people to stay behind after a sequel, it has happened with Halo, Warcraft, Counterstrike and even Smash.

People will still play Brawl casually so it doesn't really matter.
 

Goldkirby

Smash Ace
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Dec 11, 2006
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529
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I'm gonna wait until Brawl comes out before I make a decision if it is good or not. It will take at least a couple of years of playing the game to figure out a lot of techniques in the game, but it should take a little less time then that to see if the game is good for competetive play. I'm sure Nintendo is gonna to a good job on this game, and it will be fun still. Plus how can you not be excited for snake or sonic?
 

saratos

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
96
Well, as far as L cancelling goes, it really was either everyone or no-one did it. It added nothing, merely slightly speeding up a small part of the game.
 

Frozenserpent

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
394
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Saratoga, CA
Actually, L-cancelling does indirectly have a positive effect on the game.

Casual players don't know about L-cancelling, so only people who start getting into the competitive scene would learn L-cancelling. This resulted in them suddenly improving radically and getting faster quickly after starting to get competitive. This jump in improvement, as new competitive players start learning advanced techs, encourages these new players to continue getting competitive/learning the game.

It's kind of like rediscovering melee. I liked smash casually, but after playing it for long periods of time, I'd get bored, because it seems like the same thing over and over. But after learning/practicing advanced techs, I saw the game with different eyes, and it gave me new motivation to play the game.

That said, I'm not saying L-cancelling is absolutely essential to a good game. But it certainly is more than just clicking buttons, and this is why technical barriers can be useful, even arbitrary ones.
 

Foxy K

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well we can hope that the rumor about brawl's lack of l-canceling only being the demo is true. why they'd do that is beyond me, but i hope it's true.
 

Weed

Smash Lord
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Mar 2, 2007
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So,
You're saying you'd never get bored of Melee's roster of characters, stages, and techniques? Same old **** every day?

I find it incredibly hard to believe that you'd keep playing the same game, with the same advanced techs, when a new, completely undiscovered game (with more of everything, minus L-cancelling) would be sitting right in front of you.
 

Red Exodus

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Ill play brawl, it looks sooo fun, but heck no I am not going to compete in a smash game with no L cancelling.

Automatic = no miss = less of a game = boring for competitive play.

Weed, he never said he wouldn't play it, he said he wouldn't compete.
 

BentoBox

Smash Master
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You don't know that yet. Neither do all of those people claiming that they'll main X char in 2 years.
 

Red Exodus

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But the point is he'll play it, whether or not competes isn't the question. I was just clearing up the misconception that he was not going to play Brawl, which everyone was flaming him for.
 

cubaisdeath

Smash Lord
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Concord
Ill play brawl, it looks sooo fun, but heck no I am not going to compete in a smash game with no L cancelling. Ive got a lot of reasons for not playing brawl, but Im going to stick to the L cancel argument here because L cancelling is universally accepted as an extremly well placed technique that divides the good players from the bad.

Also : If L cancelling is automatic (and it is) then how will you miss one? And where does the punishment game go?

Automatic = no miss = less of a game = boring for competitive play.
Dear God I hope you don't play any other fighting games. **** near every other fighter than Smash that I've played never had any sort of land lag reducing mechanic. Honestly, I don't care if L-canceling is out. All my other fighters don't have it, they all seem balanced and worthy of competitive play.
 

Blackadder

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The first few pages of this thread were epic fail. No, they hit a whole new level of stupid.

Know why I'm switching to Brawl? Because Gimpyfish informed us all that "THE GAME IS FREAKING FUN". A friend of mine went to E4A, and told me it's "****ing awesome!", and a while back Phoenix Fire said the games "***** Melee". Everyone that played the Demo said it was incredible. Even the often incompetent IGN had some real info to give us on how it’s great! Now, I hate the argument that "Brawl isn't Melee 2.0!", and while it's technically true, Brawl is built on essentially the same concept as Melee and N64. But I do agree when they say that the lack of WD or L-cancel won't kill the game, because...my God, it won't!
*Gasp*
It is a new game, in it’s own right. A new addition to the series. And change will give us all a fresh breath of air to the series. It’ll be great f0or us all, I’m sure. Serious Smasher, party Smasher, or n00b, we’ll all love it to death.

Everyone that hasn’t played the game and says it sucks because the Adv Techs are absent are the epitome of n00b. PLAY the demo, I'm sure you'll change your mind...hell, I've been dying to play it. The reception is awesome, and I think many of you guys are just whining over nothing.

Brawl will be teh phire!!!!!one!!

Oh, and yes, I do use WD and L-cancel in Melee, so don't think this is based on me just not knowing any of the tricks! :kirby:
 

Dark Sonic

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Dear God I hope you don't play any other fighting games. **** near every other fighter than Smash that I've played never had any sort of land lag reducing mechanic. Honestly, I don't care if L-canceling is out. All my other fighters don't have it, they all seem balanced and worthy of competitive play.
Actually, the Narutimate Hero and Narutimate Accel games have Shuriken canceling, which cancels all lag from an attack and replaces it with throwing a shuriken and I'm pretty sure Guilty Gear has lag reducers (but there is a cost involved I believe) and Halo 2 has double shots which auto reload for you and BXR which cancels melee lag and goes straight into shooting, so there are fighters that have lag reducing mechanics.

That is not the point we've been getting at. And most fighters are more ground based anyway, so most aerials don't have much landing lag to begin with. What we've been saying is that having a technical barrier is not neccessarily a bad thing for competative play. Yes, we can still beat any random scrubs even if there's no advance techs at all (but there are bound to be some anyway), but having that technical barrier seperated more devoted players from the casual ones. Because you actually had to practice advance techs to even enter the competative scene, we were able to weed out most of the players that would simply quit after a month or so.

L-canceling itself was what I consider to be the best technical barrier in any smash game. With smash being such an aerial based fighter, it literally doubled the speed of your game within a few hours of practice. It made many combo stings possible and made many approaches safer and completely changed your playstyle. It doesn't matter that it's something that you should always do after you learn it, what matters is that as soon as you learn it there is an immediate and almost overwhelming difference in your playstyle than just a few hours earlier that day.

Wavedashing wasn't as much of a technical barrier, but it was just as influential in it's own way. The improvement that wavedashing gave you was more gradual and longer lasting than L-canceling because it was actually not always your best option. It was just a quick spacing movement that was superior to dashing in that you could attack immediately afterwards and you could do it without actually turning around (which made for quick edgehogs). It, however, was inferior to dashing in terms of speed of movement and overall lag.

I think that advance techs help make the game deeper because instead of knowing all of you options for strategy from the begining, you actually discover more along the way. Everytime you think that you've peaked you find something else that can step up your game. It's true that eventually you will discover all of the advance techs (or at least think you have) and at that point you'll notice that your rate of improvement has slowed.

Advance techs serve as both a barrier to keep to many lazy scrubs from entering tournies and as a motivater to help improving players see immediate results for their work. For me they definately make the game more fun.


BTW, Brawl is going to be amazing and even if it doesn't have much of a competative sceen I'm still going to play it casually. I personally can't wait to kick my friend's butts with Sonic (who I heard from Gimpyfish is quite akward to play, which makes it all the better.)
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
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So,
You're saying you'd never get bored of Melee's roster of characters, stages, and techniques? Same old **** every day?
Isai seems quite satisfied with Smash 64. There's quite a large community following older versions of games despite newer versions being released. Are you saying you have no appreciation for classics?

How much fun a game is doesn't directly influence the existence of a competitive scene. If one doesn't show up for Brawl, I'll definitely still be playing Melee for the most part.
 

Anther

Smash Champion
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Oct 5, 2005
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Ann Arbor, MI
There's still the "Imagine how good sheik would still be if the meta-game never evolved." in Melee. Still, I hate L-cancel. There are people who'd be fun to play this game with if learning such an arbitrary but necessary move wasn't actually necessary to learn. There's no visual cue or anything, making it a pain to teach, and after a certain point you land about all of them anyway.

I'm not one to really care for a technique like that disappearing. I'm a lil upset that something as door opening as wavedashing is. (Can't even imagine being able to fight against marth with any character). I'm actually bummed about the everything sweetspotting thing, lol... but that's a personal vendetta...

But, there's going to be thousands of new tournaments and that's all I really care about >.>.
 

pdk

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 20, 2006
Messages
1,320
Automatic = no miss = less of a game = boring for competitive play.
news: l-canceling adds no depth because there's no actual incentive to not do it some of the time; you simply try to do it every time and you miss once in a while, that doesn't make things any deeper (and no, casuals not knowing about something does not automatically give that thing super strategic powers beyond our wildest imaginations)

thread fails so hard, so many armchair experts and doomsday prophets moaning over techniques in a game that's not even done and out the door yet that it's just hilarious

on a side note anther, where ya been? the U misses you! and i miss nagging you to play kof, c'mon man
 

SwiftBass

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oh **** PDK i thought u were dead. im surprised by ur post.

usually its less words, pictures only, final destination......(grows appreciation for 4chan humor) glad to see ur still around.
 

pdk

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 20, 2006
Messages
1,320
a combination of kof98 netplay, martial arts and classes this semester have consumed me, though a good deal of it is probably the kof98 netplay

we could set a trend on swf, or at least swf's pittsburgh bunch!
 

StellaNova

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 20, 2005
Messages
250
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Belleville, Illinois
Smash brought us all together and here we go tearing each other apart over a new iteration of the game. I'm sure that if we had been as big about smash 64 that a lot of people would have the same view about Melee's release, only to be greatly relieved and, for the most part, totally transitioning to the new game.
 

House M.D.

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
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136
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New Haven/Bryn Mawr
Before I begin, please judge my post by the strength of its logic not by the number of previous posts I have made. I spent the summer learning advanced techniques, have attended a few ESTICLE tournaments in Connecticut along with a CT rankfest, and I often read these boards; I'm pretty familiar with the community.

That said, this thread illustrates one of the strangest and most important themes running through these boards; the pros and the casual players are are divided. The evidence is everywhere, from the constant casual player spam deriding us for turning off items in cowardice or taunting us with the death of the wavedash, to the rampant name calling of casual players (noobs, scrubs). We are divided.

Why? A few reasons.

1) The casual players don't believe that we are as good as we are. Most people wouldn't claim that they could beat LeBron James 1 on 1 in basketball; they recognize the amount of talent and skill required to play basketball. Smash, however, seems different. Everyone can easily pick up and play smash and there's always an egotistical component for people who play games. It's much easier to believe that the smash pros just play with different rules and they're really not that good than it is for basketball. Thus, casual players will delude themselves into believing they're just as good as pros for whatever reason they can invent. In the first tournament I attended, I had no advanced techniques at my disposal, but I assumed I could win because my mindgames had to be better than those of these idiots.

2) Our elitism. We all know that many posters out there don't really understand why the rules are the way they are or why advanced play is more effective than casual play. These people however have joined a community, and as such feel they are entitled to an amount of elitism. We can all understand this, being humans, but we also all know that this does not engender close relations between casual and pro players.

And now comes brawl. The loss of L-canceling and wavedashing will produce a different game. Other new techniques such as hugging and inkdropping are emerging to take their places, although some (m2k included) are resistant, which is fair. But here's the point.

The fact that L-canceling is automatic could salvage the relationship between pro and casual players. In melee, whenever I play with a casual player and they ask about advanced techniques, I can patiently explain to press L right before you touch the ground and to air dodge into the ground, but the casual players cannot be blamed for struggling with these techniques at first. When they ask about what to focus on first, I always tell them shield grabbing. It's easy, just press A while shielding, and very effective. I feel such relief that I can introduce them to higher level play without having to wait for them to practice for hours. With L-canceling automatic, all I have to do is tell them to focus on keeping their combos going and trying to attack as quickly as possible after landing on the ground after an aerial. It sounds like the ink drop and hugging are similarly simple techniques to input but potentially very effective and deep.

Note the caveat at this point that of course brawl is 3.5 months from release and it's just a demo. Nonetheless, advanced techniques being easier to do is a good thing. Casual players can be quickly taught these techniques and potentially realize how deep and interesting smash is. The community can grow. Casual players who want to stay casual and prefer grabbing a golden hammer to chaingrabbing and uair juggling with mario are free to do their thing, but they'll know how the game can really be played. This is good. Surely I experienced a personal renaissance when I discovered the depth opened up by L-canceling and WDing, artificial as the barrier was, but this isn't how it had to go. If WDish and L-canceling were easy or automatic, the depth would have been available from the beginning, and I would never have found myself bored with the game in the first place. The Final Fantasy Series has always been deep, fun, and interesting, but if you had to do a secret button input to use magic, it would get very boring very fast.

It's time to lose our insecurities (which are sometimes hard to deny) that casual players will start getting good at the game and be able to compete with us. It's time to lose our elitism about the right way to play the game (in what world does that concept make sense). It's time to play a game that you can learn in 5 minutes and spend a lifetime mastering. Surely there will still be immature casual players who don't accept our rules and techniques, but they won't be able to deny that we play better, because they'll know that they can play better too.

Note: I apologize that this post sounds grandiose and self-absorbed. It just had to be that way.
 

joshdragon

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 15, 2007
Messages
8
people will always play melee. heck i still play the original. and i dont think that brawl will be a "watered down version of melee" it just goes to prove that you cant please all the people all the time.
 

GreenKirby

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You know what's really funny?

Even if all the advance techs were kept in, it doesn't automatically mean you're still the best at the game when it's first out. >_>

Because most people seem to think that.
 

launchpadmcqak13

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 16, 2005
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188
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Simi Valley, CA
There are like 12 people max who post regularily in the brawl section that know how to play smashbrothers.

the other 50000000000000000000000000 hate you. They will also point out that you have no life and abuse ''glitches to win'' and patronize you, since they of course have fun when they play, and us tourney goers are SERIOUS and wear business suits.
****ing dead on. And hilarious.

And I'm not afraid that everyone will be better than me, I love playing with people that are better, it only makes me better. There will still be a bell curve, don't worry about it. Not everyone will be amazing.
 

Red Exodus

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You know what's really funny?

Even if all the advance techs were kept in, it doesn't automatically mean you're still the best at the game when it's first out. >_>

Because most people seem to think that.

If they are taken out that doesn't mean new people can be the best either, a lot of fools in the Brawl section seem to think that.
 

Dylan_Tnga

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Feb 19, 2007
Messages
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Well, it's not so much as effort as it is to press a single button in the case of l-cancel.

it doesn't take any skill whatsoever to press z after you attack. Having it automatic isn't going to make that much of a difference. If anything it will just make it better for everyone.
If its automatic you cant miss it. Missing is part of fighting. Brawl fails.
 

Mr.Kalos

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
64
ive read about 30% of theese posts and I refuse to finish this.

"Brawl is a party game " I dont care, really, is smash what is today because of what the creators thought would be a fun game? Absolutely not, this game wouldn't be as huge as it is today without any friendly rivalry's, being a family in crews, sharing new ideas, ect. The success of this game was made by US, the way we play was created by US, the advanced techniques were executed by US, they found a perfect balance of having fun and being competitive I just hope they do it again.
 

mezbomber

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
219
Location
Mankato
Before I begin, please judge my post by the strength of its logic not by the number of previous posts I have made. I spent the summer learning advanced techniques, have attended a few ESTICLE tournaments in Connecticut along with a CT rankfest, and I often read these boards; I'm pretty familiar with the community.

That said, this thread illustrates one of the strangest and most important themes running through these boards; the pros and the casual players are are divided. The evidence is everywhere, from the constant casual player spam deriding us for turning off items in cowardice or taunting us with the death of the wavedash, to the rampant name calling of casual players (noobs, scrubs). We are divided.

Why? A few reasons.

1) The casual players don't believe that we are as good as we are. Most people wouldn't claim that they could beat LeBron James 1 on 1 in basketball; they recognize the amount of talent and skill required to play basketball. Smash, however, seems different. Everyone can easily pick up and play smash and there's always an egotistical component for people who play games. It's much easier to believe that the smash pros just play with different rules and they're really not that good than it is for basketball. Thus, casual players will delude themselves into believing they're just as good as pros for whatever reason they can invent. In the first tournament I attended, I had no advanced techniques at my disposal, but I assumed I could win because my mindgames had to be better than those of these idiots.

2) Our elitism. We all know that many posters out there don't really understand why the rules are the way they are or why advanced play is more effective than casual play. These people however have joined a community, and as such feel they are entitled to an amount of elitism. We can all understand this, being humans, but we also all know that this does not engender close relations between casual and pro players.

And now comes brawl. The loss of L-canceling and wavedashing will produce a different game. Other new techniques such as hugging and inkdropping are emerging to take their places, although some (m2k included) are resistant, which is fair. But here's the point.

The fact that L-canceling is automatic could salvage the relationship between pro and casual players. In melee, whenever I play with a casual player and they ask about advanced techniques, I can patiently explain to press L right before you touch the ground and to air dodge into the ground, but the casual players cannot be blamed for struggling with these techniques at first. When they ask about what to focus on first, I always tell them shield grabbing. It's easy, just press A while shielding, and very effective. I feel such relief that I can introduce them to higher level play without having to wait for them to practice for hours. With L-canceling automatic, all I have to do is tell them to focus on keeping their combos going and trying to attack as quickly as possible after landing on the ground after an aerial. It sounds like the ink drop and hugging are similarly simple techniques to input but potentially very effective and deep.

Note the caveat at this point that of course brawl is 3.5 months from release and it's just a demo. Nonetheless, advanced techniques being easier to do is a good thing. Casual players can be quickly taught these techniques and potentially realize how deep and interesting smash is. The community can grow. Casual players who want to stay casual and prefer grabbing a golden hammer to chaingrabbing and uair juggling with mario are free to do their thing, but they'll know how the game can really be played. This is good. Surely I experienced a personal renaissance when I discovered the depth opened up by L-canceling and WDing, artificial as the barrier was, but this isn't how it had to go. If WDish and L-canceling were easy or automatic, the depth would have been available from the beginning, and I would never have found myself bored with the game in the first place. The Final Fantasy Series has always been deep, fun, and interesting, but if you had to do a secret button input to use magic, it would get very boring very fast.

It's time to lose our insecurities (which are sometimes hard to deny) that casual players will start getting good at the game and be able to compete with us. It's time to lose our elitism about the right way to play the game (in what world does that concept make sense). It's time to play a game that you can learn in 5 minutes and spend a lifetime mastering. Surely there will still be immature casual players who don't accept our rules and techniques, but they won't be able to deny that we play better, because they'll know that they can play better too.

Note: I apologize that this post sounds grandiose and self-absorbed. It just had to be that way.


I'm nearly blinded by the amount of logic in your post. Bravo! Your focus on the division of smash players is relevant, and is an issue I hate hearing people ***** about. I fear we are creating a "republican vs. democrat" kind of mindset within this community, and I don't care for that. Different people play differently for different reasons, and no one should be vigilant about pushing their style on anyone else. All of us, however, should be respectful of other's choices and command respect for our own choices.

Also, if it seems that the automation of some techniques makes it easier, then isn't that just opening the door to make competitive play more accessible to more people? And doesn't more people exponentially augment the learning curve for everyone?

For the record, I'm guessing my smash time will be split evenly between Brawl and Melee. I think Brawl will be just as good, but allow room for Melee to live on due to it's uniqueness (and isn't that great that Brawl is not treading all over Melee's individuality?)
 

GreenKirby

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If they are taken out that doesn't mean new people can be the best either, a lot of fools in the Brawl section seem to think that.
Yeah but it also seems like some 'pros' aren't even willing to relearn something because it's new.
 
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