Reasons to switch Utilt and Usmash

[Angell]

Keep in mind that throughout this entire post that I am not a PMBR member and I do not know the work that this simple idea would require.

My thoughts on switching these two moves:

For:

-the current Utilt has massive K'O potential, but, it is nearly impossible to land (on smart opponents) because of it's massive startup and the the fact that you have to completely stop moving to use it. This would be partially fixed if you could jump-cancel into it.

-the current U smash on the other hand is a really bad move to use out of dash because it doesn't hit smaller opponents and it offers little reward for the massive Risk you take when you approach with it.

-they both kinda fit the other role in my mind. You know, smashes kill, tilts combo.

Against:

-the PMBR has better things to do

-some people like it how it is

-it would be harder to combo spacies with the current Usmash as Utilt.

Make your decision and discuss below

 

[4tlas]

When I need a quickly inputted move, I am usually glad to have upsmash be that move. When I use uptilt I am calm and careful, and those situations are either times I can combo into uptilt (off of dtilt or dins) or times when I just read the opponent hard. Furthermore, uptilt is a safe anti-air move because her arm is intangible, so I can calmly use it. Upsmash is not a move I would use when calm, so if it became a tilt I would simply be unable to use it!

Essentially, I think the moves are appropriate to their inputs. The argument I would make is that uptilt should be a combo move and upsmash should be a kill move, but I'm also fine with them as-is.

 

[ECHOnce]

Naw. While the kill potential swap definitely makes her an outlier, she's not completely alone (take Marth with his U-Smash/U-tilt lol). Besides, they still follow back the trend of tilt ranges usually extending further than smashes. Running up with Zelda's current U-tilt would def leave you more vulnerable than her U-smash, anyhow. U-tilt is just not a very safe move To use without hit-confirm

 

[Kaeldiar]

Up-smash OoS

 

[Angell]

Up-smash OoS

Is bad compared to Utilt oos

 

[Lil Puddin]

I think they are fine as is. They are two anti air moves that are amazeballs. Utilt is like a fly touching a fly zapper. One... Little... Zap! STARKO. It's beautiful.

 

[4tlas]

Is bad compared to Utilt oos

Not necessarily. Again, they are useful in different situations, one more for comboing and the other for outright killing. If you want to uptilt OOS why not grab? If you have enough damage to kill with uptilt (the only reason to use it over upsmash OOS), you have enough to kill with bthrow or up/forward throw into lightning kick. The only reason to use something over grab is that you are facing the wrong way (or you want a harder punish), and uptilt takes too long to reach behind, whereas upsmash hits immediately.

 

[Angell]

Not necessarily. Again, they are useful in different situations, one more for comboing and the other for outright killing. If you want to uptilt OOS why not grab? If you have enough damage to kill with uptilt (the only reason to use it over upsmash OOS), you have enough to kill with bthrow or up/forward throw into lightning kick. The only reason to use something over grab is that you are facing the wrong way (or you want a harder punish), and uptilt takes too long to reach behind, whereas upsmash hits immediately.

Or maybe I was saying that Usmash is risky as balls.

 

[4tlas]

As opposed to uptilt? If they shield either you're getting punished way harder for uptilt because they don't have to shield the rest of the move once they shield any part of it. This gives them time to set up the hardest punish they can. Besides, if they have a bad shield or a somewhat worn down one you can actually shield poke them partway through an upsmash. If they spot dodge uptilt will miss, and if you are looking for a trade of damage you probably are going to lose out in the long run with either move.

I don't see your point. Elaborate please?

 

[Lil Puddin]

Uptilt is special, and people seem to forget that. The hitbox for the move seems to linger even after Zelda has been hit. This means trading attacks will always be in Zeldoo's favor, considering you use the attack wisely.

Is someone trying to approach from above? SURPRISE!

Is someone about to roll behind you? SURPRISE!

Is someone wavedashing or teleporting directly on you or in front of you? SURPRISE!

The move, when fresh, has very nice killing potential. Lightning kicks aren't always a guaranteed hit, even with throws. Bthrow is only a guaranteed kill considering you are facing the right way and aren't far from the blast zone. Most players expect those kills and act accordingly. So in common situations you can safely use Utilt to ruin lives. You can't truly be prepare for all 3 of those. Then there's her other powerful aerial and ground attacks... lol

But you are right, Utilt leaves you vulnerable despite not being too slow. It is a safer and stronger kill option than Usmash. I use it a lot because it is never expected. It also doesn't require as much aim as a Lkick and throws can lead into Utilts. Still, aerials or Bthrows are better than Utilt kills in terms of effectiveness and safety. Utilt is just another kill move for Zeldoo.