Recovering vs Ike's B

[Whiztard]

Hey all,

Sorry if this has been asked before. I just went to a local tourney and played against a power ranked Ike in my region. I kept getting wrecked by Ike's B when trying to recover, and was wondering what good recovery options or play adjustments I should make.

I tried to recover high a few times, but was punished most of the time. Whenever I recover low against the Ike's B, Ike's B always hits and kills me. Is there any consistent way around this, or should I just try to be better at neutral so that I don't get thrown off the ledge?

Any tips appreciated.

 

[Roystonea]

Things you can do are:

1. recover high enough
2. bait it out with your d-jump/walljump and recover after he's used it
3. when he expects you to bait it out, just recover.

if you get hit of 2 far from the stage, you need to be lucky i guess

 

[MurphyPrime]

Is it possible to use the side-b to recover? I know it doesn't work in melee, but I haven't played Smash 4 falcon enough to know.

 

[Waves]

can't you just sweetspot ledge with up b and roll on stage?

 

[Whiztard]

can't you just sweetspot ledge with up b and roll on stage?

I can test it out some more tonight, but from what I know, Ike's B pokes further so that it hits further than the sweetspot. So Ike has a lot of time to react after seeing my Up B.

 

[Roystonea]

Is it possible to use the side-b to recover? I know it doesn't work in melee, but I haven't played Smash 4 falcon enough to know.

if you can side b over his hitbox yeah sure

 

[Swagmaster]

Is it possible to use the side-b to recover? I know it doesn't work in melee, but I haven't played Smash 4 falcon enough to know.

Side B is great for recovering onstage as a mixup. You side b into your opponent trying to edge guard you to hit them away during your landing lag. Well timed ranged attacks, shields, and counters can beat it though, so it's best to alternate it with the up b to try to keep your opponent guessing.

 

[MurphyPrime]

I figured it would work as a mix up, I just didn't remember if it disables you like it does in melee if you hit someone.

 

[MurphyPrime]

I can test it out some more tonight, but from what I know, Ike's B pokes further so that it hits further than the sweetspot. So Ike has a lot of time to react after seeing my Up B.

I can confirm it goes below the stage. If the Ike who is ledge guarding with it is over eager when charging, then the side-b might work. But if the Ike is smart they likely won't start charging till you are close, or they will use the move uncharged after you fall below the ledge.

 

[Waves]

I can test it out some more tonight, but from what I know, Ike's B pokes further so that it hits further than the sweetspot. So Ike has a lot of time to react after seeing my Up B.

i might be mistaken but i think it will ledge snap you before the b would hit, i know it does with roy's neutral b. of course on any stage without a wall it wouldnt work as well. Actually speaking of that, wall jump into up b onto stage could work, though he could punish your descent with a grab or something, i think you could probably up b into him if your brave after a wall jump too.

and side b hitbox reaches farther than falcons hurtbox if i remember correctly, so if u use that into him it could maybe work. all theoretical though.

 

[MurphyPrime]

i might be mistaken but i think it will ledge snap you before the b would hit, i know it does with roy's neutral b. of course on any stage without a wall it wouldnt work as well. Actually speaking of that, wall jump into up b onto stage could work, though he could punish your descent with a grab or something, i think you could probably up b into him if your brave after a wall jump too.

The thing with Ike's neutral is the hitbox extends below the stage, so it might not be possible to reach the sweet spot. I haven't practiced enough with the eruption to know if it works against Falcon consistently, but I think you can use it to intercept. A wall jump I think may be a better option.

 

[MurphyPrime]

And for the side b, I'm not sure but I think the hitbox for Ike's neutral may reach far enough to hit Falcon. I think the move is disjointed, but I don't use eruption enough to know for sure.

 

[Waves]

And for the side b, I'm not sure but I think the hitbox for Ike's neutral may reach far enough to hit Falcon. I think the move is disjointed, but I don't use eruption enough to know for sure.

it definitely is disjointed for ike, i think falcon's side b hitbox is more disjointed though, so as long as he isnt some god who can time it perfectly side b should work, but this is taking his hitbox from melee and ledge grab properties from smash 4 so i dont really know for sure if it would work, just speculating.

 

[MurphyPrime]

I think you could use side b as a mix up, cause eruption isn't an instant attack. Like if you fast fall like you are going below to use the up special, you might trick him to start charging. Then use your side b might work.

 

[Waves]

i swear if u ride up the wall with up b you should be safe, if your coming from farther away then that's the only problem i see. below ledge recovering = up b sweetspot (i think) above ledge= pray he misses/try to wall jump if ur close enough, but i really wanna test to see if side b works now

I think you could use side b as a mix up, cause eruption isn't an instant attack. Like if you fast fall like you are going below to use the up special, you might trick him to start charging. Then use your side b might work.

yeah im saying u could only side b if he was already charging, if he is just waiting then if u side b your just gonna get fsmashed and die

but if he waits to charge then the hitbox is smaller and you should be fine anyway

 

[MurphyPrime]

His fsmash is really slow, so maybe not. His ftilt would destroy you though. Riding the wall might work, unless he is amazing at timing it.

 

[Waves]

His fsmash is really slow, so maybe not. His ftilt would destroy you though. Riding the wall might work, unless he is amazing at timing it.

only thing you have to worry about is him dropping down and using bair or something to stage spike you

 

[MurphyPrime]

Teching would stop that, but you would have to be amazing at timing/predicting. If I was Ike I might even use my side special to hit the recovering Falcon. To do that level ledge guarding you would have to be very good at predicting the wall ride.

 

[Waves]

not possible to tech that close to the wall at mid to high %s, but ledge snap should snap avoiding side b, unless you mean jump off and use it towards the wall.

 

[MurphyPrime]

I meant jump off, cause if you miss with Ike from an air dodge he can use his up special after.

 

[Stairs]

can't you just sweetspot ledge with up b and roll on stage?

Not really, you have to consider the frames during your roll he can hit you, and the fact Ike's neutral B has a large hit box, I'm sure there's a spot that covers both rolls and normal get-ups.

 

[Waves]

Not really, you have to consider the frames during your roll he can hit you, and the fact Ike's neutral B has a large hit box, I'm sure there's a spot that covers both rolls and normal get-ups.

definitely not, rolling invisibility is really far

 

[Stairs]

definitely not, rolling invisibility is really far

According to the Rolling SmashWiki page, Captain Falcon's roll invincibility frames are 4-17 and 27, then you have lag until 31, in those 10 frames you can definitely consistently hit Falcon with the back of your neutral B as Ike.

 

[Roberto Duarte]

As a falcon main from gainesville, Florida I can tell you from playing against the best Ike multiple times that his neutral b is almost impossible to overcome. I usually try to wait it out offstage and wall jumping to wait for him to let it go because you cannot sweet spot the ledge.

 

[Swagmaster]

As a falcon main from gainesville, Florida I can tell you from playing against the best Ike multiple times that his neutral b is almost impossible to overcome. I usually try to wait it out offstage and wall jumping to wait for him to let it go because you cannot sweet spot the ledge.

I agree. Your only chance of survival is Ike missing the timing of the hit. Wall jumps and raptor boosts are pretty much your only mix up options and they must be used skillfully.

 

[Trueblade]

The best you can do to avoid it is to try and throw off his timing and/or ride the wall to shorten the amount of time Ike has to hit you. Even then, Ike still has 7 active frames to hit you out of the 2 frame ledge snap vulnerability, which Falcon can't do much about with no hitbox on his Up B. Against a good Ike, it's extremely rough.

 

[teluoborg]

Ok so I've ran into the exact same problem against a guy that plays Ike too (@Blubolouis where you at)

The main problem is twofold :
1-Falcon's hand over extends his grab box during his up B, meaning you can be hit before grabbing the ledge
2-the hitbox on Ike's neutral B is the size of a 5 stories building, reaching both very high and very low.

Those two things combined means that if you have lost your second jump and are forced to use up B to recover Ike has only a little effort to time his neutral B and it will hit you (and kill you).

What you can do in this situation (recovering without your second jump) :
-change the timing when you use your up B, sometimes earlier sometimes later
-do not recover from straight under the stage but keep a slight horizontal gap between you and the ledge, then close that gap when you are sure your grab box will connect with the ledge. It takes some practice but it reduces your window of vulnerability when grabbing the ledge.

Watch this video reflex made if you want to visualize the hitbox of up B :

Good luck and remember, use your second jump wisely.


PS : if you wonder how much Falcon's hand overextends during his up B, I once got hit by the side B of a Ness while he was standing onstage. On BF Falcon's hand literally reaches through the ground before he grabs the ledge.