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reflexes

sakuraZaKi

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well before any stuff on "search", i haven't found much about reflexes... yet...

I have a few questions about reflexes:

-How are reflexes applied to competitive smash, or rather smash overall?

-Are good reflexes essential for smash? if so, how good must one's be? (weird question)

-If answered yes to the above question, is there a way to train reflexes?

sorry if my questions make no sense, I'm kind of fatigued right now...
 

Weed

Smash Lord
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Mar 2, 2007
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Reflexes are generally heavily applied to any competitive activity, it determines how well you can react to your opponent, which makes a huge deal.

There are many "tests' in order to gauge your reflexes, but I haven't really found them to be effective..
If you want to try them out, though, I'm sure others will post them.
 

Yoshi'stheBombers7

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NH ... >_<
well before any stuff on "search", i haven't found much about reflexes... yet...

I have a few questions about reflexes:

-How are reflexes applied to competitive smash, or rather smash overall?

-Are good reflexes essential for smash? if so, how good must one's be? (weird question)

-If answered yes to the above question, is there a way to train reflexes?

sorry if my questions make no sense, I'm kind of fatigued right now...
Having fast reflexes avoid falling into combos, campy players, and traps set by your opponent. It's all in the mindgames. It has EVERYTHING do do with competitive smash.

And yes, there is a way to train reflexes (mindgames). Just look at the terms (I believe there is one stickied) and keep practicing (it doesn't really matter if it's against the computers, as long as your not practicing combos on them. Try to practice against human players.).
 

Nekromancer_

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
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fighting a person with reflexes can be a scary thing , you have to think faster than you normally would that could be advantageous or your loss depending if your hands and mind can keep up with the stress
 

muesli

Smash Journeyman
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Germany, Waldkirch (nobody knows this place)!
If you have better relfexes as your opponent the match gets much easier for you! Example, if you play versus a very fast character like Fox or Captain Falcon, incredible reflexes are gold!

How you can train them? Hmm... I think the best way to train them, is to play normla 4stock matches against different characters and players to get a feeling for it.



muesli :)
 

ArcNatural

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And yes, there is a way to train reflexes (mindgames).
Reflexes do not equal mindgames. Which is what your implying by putting mindgames in parenthesis. The closest definition of Reflexes that apply to smash is:

Reflex: The ability to react quickly and effectively.

Mindgames is a general term for anything you use to manipulate/read your opponent into doing something you can predict and punish.

That being said good reflexes can help you in all parts of Smash.
 

Knight-errant

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Reflexes do not equal mindgames. Which is what your implying by putting mindgames in parenthesis. The closest definition of Reflexes that apply to smash is:

Reflex: The ability to react quickly and effectively.

Mindgames is a general term for anything you use to manipulate/read your opponent into doing something you can predict and punish.

That being said good reflexes can help you in all parts of Smash.
Arcnatural is exactly right. It has nothing to do with mindgames.

One test for reflexes is having someone hold a ruler above your partially opened hand, and then they unexpectantly drop it. Your reflexes are then measured based on where you manage to grab the ruler (the higher up the ruler, the worse your reflexes). Unfortunately, I don't remember exactly how the "score" for it works. You could google it easily though.

This is a pretty close approximation to what your talking about:

Observation: The Key to Higher Level Smash Play
Well, I definitely agree that thread is helpful, but it really doesn't deal with reflexes. It talks more about how it's important to observe your opponent and know HOW to react to them, but nothing to do with how FAST you react. I definitely reccommend reading that thread though, it has good information.
 

Retroking2000

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good reflexes can only be obtained . through using all of your stimulus

i have a task for you , next time you play smash keep your eyes on the opponent and focus your hearing on the sounds or shields and attacks of the opponent sounds dont focus on the BG music focus on the Character SFX . your reflexes gross speed will quicken
 

Zjiin

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Reflexes are a must when it comes to higher level playing. In order to train them you need both of the the two following things:

A) A good knowledge of your matchups and the priority of what your opponent's moves have over what moves you have. If you don't know what to do when you need to do it, you reflexes will do you squat when the time comes except make you a button-jammer.

B) The physical quickness to respond fast enough to act on stuff you already know you need to do. (which is part of what A is about) You might know what moves trump what, but if you can't get them out fast enough, you're going to end up doing something like d-smashing too late and instead, d-airing off the edge, to your death. (it's happened to us all)

I personally work on reflex skill by using my GC controller hooked up to my computer and i play stepmania with it. ( Hear Azen does something of the like as well) That game will make sure you are sharp enough to be precise with what you want to do. It will transfer over to smash but then again that only helps B and not your A.

Hope this helps.
 

ArcNatural

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Reflexes are a must when it comes to higher level playing. In order to train them you need both of the the two following things:

A) A good knowledge of your matchups and the priority of what your opponent's moves have over what moves you have. If you don't know what to do when you need to do it, you reflexes will do you squat when the time comes except make you a button-jammer.

B) The physical quickness to respond fast enough to act on stuff you already know you need to do. (which is part of what A is about) You might know what moves trump what, but if you can't get them out fast enough, you're going to end up doing something like d-smashing too late and instead, d-airing off the edge, to your death. (it's happened to us all)

I personally work on reflex skill by using my GC controller hooked up to my computer and i play stepmania with it. ( Hear Azen does something of the like as well) That game will make sure you are sharp enough to be precise with what you want to do. It will transfer over to smash but then again that only helps B and not your A.

Hope this helps.
I like the stepmania idea, I might do that if anything actually requires you to be fast in Brawl. Just for fun.
 

ph00tbag

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Reflexes aren't going to help you in Smash. A good reaction time is.
 

Xanthyr

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What you guys are talking about is quickening your reaction speed. You're training your mind to work complex thoughts at a higher rate of speed. That is not gaining reflexes. A reflex is this:

A reflex action is an automatic (otherwise called involuntary) neuromuscular action elicited by a defined stimulus.

An example of a reflex. For a person not trained in martial arts, if you swing at their face, they'll either wince and freeze on the spot, or they will duck out of the way. If you try to do the same test against a practitioner of physical combat, they will most likely swing an arm to block and then already have their arm pulled back for a counter-attack.

To apply this to smash, a reflex would be this. A newbie is playing the game. He runs at the enemy, whom of which is charging an f-smash. At the last second, the newbie realizes what is happening and shields or gets hit.

Stimulus- Seeing the opponent charging an attack
Reflex- Pull the trigger down to avoid damage/get hit.

A veteren would be more like this. Two people engaged in battle. The enemy shffl's a dair. Before the vet. actually can think of a command, he automatically WD's out of the way and slammed down on the c-stick for a counter-dsmash. That is a reflex.

Stimulus- Enemy is about to land a strong hit
Reflex- Hands do a complicated procedure. Press x/y, split second later pull the trigger all the way down, then smash the control stick down and press A simultaneously/ pressing the c-stick down.

These, are reflexes, whether they're taking the hit, or avoiding and punishing, still reflexes. The only way to gain these reflexes are to constantly play and train against people. If you want to be sickeningly good at powershielding, then do nothing but shield for an hour a day against a well versed player(s) with all the characters, including projectile spam. You must set up a specific situation constantly and execute that situation until you do it without thinking, "Now I press this, that, and do this while...". It must be an automatic response.

On the other hand, reaction time is processing the situation and consciously acting out from there.

The priority of the mind goes from, reflex, to response time. If you respond fast enough, you can order the cancellation or redirection of the reflex. If you're a bit slow, you might not be able to respond until after the reflex is commited and finished. What I mean is this:

You're standing in a room, facing a wall. All of a sudden, you're suckerpunched directly in the back of the head. You spin around and you see two men standing there. The first man you see is doing nothing but standing there. If you're quick enough, you'll see another man, standing there with his fists in boxing position. If you don't notice the second man, you would strike the first man. People who have lower reaction times usually will hit him. If you have a high reaction speed, you'll see the second person who is actually the assailant and further threat, you'd change target to him.

As for building reaction time, you can do the stepmania thing. After a while it'll definitely raise your hand speed, which is always an important thing to acquire. So it'll always help in warming up at the very least. Typical reaction speed/reflex games are the hand slapping games which are everywhere in the world.

Also, there are things like this:

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2006/reactiontime.shtml - The ruler thing

http://www.steriley.com/speed/ - This is pretty cool too.

http://www.bullettimereaction.com/ - Another online reaction timer. This has a gunshot being played, so it allows for a quicker response due to startling, as opposed to a docile yellow dot. (I got to stage 11 on the first try. It gets much more difficult as the reaction speed demand is higher, and you get used to the gunshot so the scaring factor is removed from the equation.)


In order to build reflexes, you need reaction speed, whether it's slow or not. The game of smash is a dance of reaction and reflex, constantly pulsating, struggling against eachother. You use your reaction speed to read your opponent's moves, find what stimulus causes which reflex, and counter those reflexes with your own. That, I believe is the clearest definition of mindgame that I've heard in a long time.
 

ph00tbag

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A reflex action is an automatic (otherwise called involuntary) neuromuscular action elicited by a defined stimulus.
By this definition, everything you've talked about is bunk. Reflexes are actions that never go to the brain for processing, and thus occur immediately after the application of the stimulus. For instance, when a cat's inner ear senses an entrance into free fall, and an upside-down orientation, its muscles automatically turn the body over, then relax completely. This is the reason cats can completely turn over when dropped from a particular height, because if the information went to the brain, it would take too long and the cat would get injured.

What you're talking about are reactions. The information of an opponent charging an Fsmash always always always needs to go to the brain and the brain always always always needs to process this information before it can send the proper actions to the fingers. As such, you will always require a certain amount of time to perform an action.

All you can do is train your brain to react a certain way to a given attack without having to think about it. This will improve your reaction time. I think someone made a post about how to train that way. You just focus on your reaction time for one move for a few matches, and your reaction time will improve.
 

Xanthyr

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The highest reaction I got was .120, averaged around .150, lowest I got was .180

My father had phenominal reaction times, and I'm not nearly as fast as he was.
 

xelad1

Smash Ace
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Sep 13, 2005
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most professionals in any muscular centric activity (like sports, or videogames) don't rely on their reflexes to become really good. Rather they know the ins and outs of their games, and are good at recognizing patterns and visual cues so that they can intelligently guess ahead to predict someone's next move, or determine their next series of actions. Similarly the top chess players don't often have to have phenomenal memories, but they are rather able to chunk and divide a board up into different scenarios with which they work from. The best professionals in any sport are often just the people who work the hardest, pay the most attention, and want to win the most... not the people who are the most naturally gifted (of course sometimes you get someone really exceptional who has natural abilities and wants to win really badly like Bobby Fischer in chess for instance, but even he didn't start out at the top he worked rediculously hard).
 
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