Resolving The Brawl Crisis (For those who wish to see Brawl improved)

[LouisLeGros]

in these cases, whos the minority?

the competitive players, yet the developers still try very hard to appeal to these fans who are among their most loyal.

Starcraft is one of the best selling games of all time, if you think the competitive players are not the minority then you are fooling yourself.

 

[PwnyRide]

the competitive players, yet the developers still try very hard to appeal to these fans who are among their most loyal.

Starcraft is one of the best selling games of all time, if you think the competitive players are not the minority then you are fooling yourself.

Lemme just give you a wakeup call, okay?

NINTENDO WANTS OUR MONEY. There's nothing more to it, it's as simple as that.
Making money is higher a priority than pleasing a very, VERY small percentage of their base audience.

These 'loyal' fans where not casual players, casual players being in the majority.
Therefore these 'fans who are among their most loyal' are not being catered to.

Dont get off topic, we're talking about Smash here, which belongs to Nintendo, and Nintendo makes Billzard's profits look miniscule. Now who's done better?

 

[AlAxe]

The notion that nintendo would even for one second consider making a new game is ridiculous. First off, Brawl has been one of the best selling games, EVER. Its not like they're going to spend the time and money to make a new game because you already bought the one that just came out. Sakurai's job isn't to create a game that will please a small group of competetive gamers; it's to make nintendo money.

Also I'm tired of hearing that Brawl lacks speed and control. Brawl most definitely does have speed and control, just not in the same way as melee. It's a much more mental game now and people need to get used to it.

 

[orintemple]

Lemme just give you a wakeup call, okay?

NINTENDO WANTS OUR MONEY. There's nothing more to it, it's as simple as that.
Making money is higher a priority than pleasing a very, VERY small percentage of their base audience.

These 'loyal' fans where not casual players, casual players being in the majority.
Therefore these 'fans who are among their most loyal' are not being catered to.

Dont get off topic, we're talking about Smash here, which belongs to Nintendo, and Nintendo makes Billzard's profits look miniscule. Now who's done better?

Finally someone agrees with me that game companies(and any company for that matter) only care about profits.

The little guys at the end of the chain may care about what the players truly want all around, but they have no say in anything. The big corporate heads are the ones making the decisions, and what they say goes. And casual gamers outweigh competitive or "hardcore" gamers about a million to 1 so they are going to get their way(as little as they know what their way is)

Nintendo is no different from any other company. Brawl was made for casual players, it is easier to pick up and has a lot of more emphasis on its single player campaign this time around. End of story.

 

[-==Marf==-]

the majority of players on sc/wc3 aren't the competitive players... you are fools to believe that. Blizzard has custom maps/match-up systems/private games with your friends and etc. which cater to casual players. If you don't force bad players to play good players then you can still have a competitive game. The online for brawl is terrible anyway, why would you play it. I would rather brawl have kept the competitive aspect and not have the ****ty online it has right now. Even casual players will get sick of **** laggy *** 4 player ffa 2 min ko fests with randomly spawning items. and tripping........... So yeah if sakurai catered to the casual players because of the online, that was stupid... Brawl still woulda sold like crazy if it kept the technical aspects in my opinion.... all my friends who suck at melee still woulda bought it... People bought it because of the hype... that was created by melee

 

[LouisLeGros]

Lemme just give you a wakeup call, okay?

NINTENDO WANTS OUR MONEY. There's nothing more to it, it's as simple as that.
Making money is higher a priority than pleasing a very, VERY small percentage of their base audience.

These 'loyal' fans where not casual players, casual players being in the majority.
Therefore these 'fans who are among their most loyal' are not being catered to.

Dont get off topic, we're talking about Smash here, which belongs to Nintendo, and Nintendo makes Billzard's profits look miniscule. Now who's done better?

Pause for a second and lets go back to what you said

Sorry, but a game company is not going to waste money to cater for a minority.

I gave an example of two developer who do cater to their competitive players. You said a game company is not going to cater (which you imply is always a waste of money) to a minority, that is obviously WRONG.

Then you make it sound like it is a fact that making a game that the competitive players enjoy will costs additional resources. Melee was done on a much smaller budget then Brawl and it turned out to be the Gamecube's best selling game.


Also if you look at the E for all demo of Brawl and how the game was delayed after the players got a hand of brawl and found many "ATs" that were taken out of the game after the release was delayed. If anything it looks like Nintendo wasted money to NOT cater to a minority.

Also Blizzard's profitability vs Nintendo's is a silly comparison. Blizzard is a developer. Nintendo has multiple developers, are one of the largest game publishers and are a hardware manufacturer. Just because tBlizzard are not at the scale of Nintendo does not mean they are doing poorly. I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard were the most profitable developer in relation to profit per game.

Yes Nintendo want our money, but not catering to the competitive players does not mean they will make more money.

 

[PwnyRide]

Pause for a second and lets go back to what you said



I gave an example of two developer who do cater to their competitive players. You said a game company is not going to cater (which you imply is always a waste of money) to a minority, that is obviously WRONG.

Then you make it sound like it is a fact that making a game that the competitive players enjoy will costs additional resources. Melee was done on a much smaller budget then Brawl and it turned out to be the Gamecube's best selling game.


Also if you look at the E for all demo of Brawl and how the game was delayed after the players got a hand of brawl and found many "ATs" that were taken out of the game after the release was delayed. If anything it looks like Nintendo wasted money to NOT cater to a minority.

Also Blizzard's profitability vs Nintendo's is a silly comparison. Blizzard is a developer. Nintendo has multiple developers, are one of the largest game publishers and are a hardware manufacturer. Just because tBlizzard are not at the scale of Nintendo does not mean they are doing poorly. I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard were the most profitable developer in relation to profit per game.

Yes Nintendo want our money, but not catering to the competitive players does not mean they will make more money.

After this, i wont try and argue with you because you completely miss the point.

It's not the money they would MAKE from catering to the minority that is competitive players, its the money they WASTE on developing costs in ORDER to cater for minority. Competitive players are much more 'high maintinence' for these gaming companies. They may not LOOSE money catering to the competitive minority, but their total profit in the end would be less, and they want the highest total profit possible. Thats all there is to it.

 

[LouisLeGros]

After this, i wont try and argue with you because you completely miss the point.

It's not the money they would MAKE from catering to the minority that is competitive players, its the money they WASTE on developing costs in ORDER to cater for minority. Competitive players are much more 'high maintinence' for these gaming companies. They may not LOOSE money catering to the competitive minority, but their total profit in the end would be less, and they want the highest total profit possible. Thats all there is to it.

you must have not read my post. Ever think that you could be wrong?

E for all demo, there were jump cancels, more hit stun, form of L cancel and pretty much all the stuff the competitive players wanted. After that demo the game was delayed and with the final product all of these things were removed.

It seems like they wasted developing costs. However, they did not waste these developing costs on catering to the competitive players.

If they wanted the most profit possible then I don't know why these things would have been removed from the game. Removing them seems to have only extended the developing process and thus costed nintendo more money.

If you really want to get to an argument about Nintendo doing what ever possible to make the most profit then I could point out so many more things in Brawl that casual players really wouldn't care about but Nintendo still spent a large amount of money on.

 

[PwnyRide]

you must have not read my post. Ever think that you could be wrong?

No, because i'm right. Have you?

Also go ahead and list these features in Brawl that casuals would not bother using at all.

 

[LouisLeGros]

Atleast I counter your points and don't ignore them.


Nintendo wasted money removing competitive aspects of Brawl.


Also making the most bottom line profit isn't always the ultimate goal for a company. There is a whole thing called marketing that makes the whole process rather confusing.

 

[PwnyRide]

Atleast I counter your points and don't ignore them.


Nintendo wasted money removing competitive aspects of Brawl.


Also making the most bottom line profit isn't always the ultimate goal for a company. There is a whole thing called marketing that makes the whole process rather confusing.

For you, maybe.

Also, i asked you to list these features that you mentioned that casual players wouldnt use. You wouldnt want to be a hypocrite, would you?

 

[Jeff Highwind]

Nintendo wasted money removing competitive aspects of Brawl.

I'm sorry, are you STONED?!

If you make an overly complex product no one but a few elite can understand, you aren't going to make a profit either way. If you make a more simplified product that everyone can understand but a few can master with hard work then you can make a profit and still cater to those few who strive for greatness.

The goal was to make money first, then make a great game second. If you have a game where people can compete then the competitive aspect was never removed but just changed to fit the greater population.

 

[Corigames]

The goal was to make money first, then make a great game second.

WHAT KIND OF ***-BACKWARD THINKING IS THAT?!?!?!

If I'm a developer, DEVELOPER, and I'm thinking about making a game not for vision, not because I want to, not to prove I'm the best, or not to make people happy, but to make money... then I have a bad business strategy. People who care about money are producers. Producers change what the game, the game that is already set to be great, or, at least, attempted to be as such, is slightly so that it sells better FOR THEM.

On top of that, it's not like Melee was over complicated. Did you ever see a kid walk up to Smash Melee and go, "Jeeze, this game is soooo complicated, I'll never be any good at all." NO! They had fricken fun with items and coin matches or what ever they felt like. On a high skill level, it was a beast of a game, but you CAN STILL PLAY IT CASUALLY. For some reason though, Nintendo tried to take away the option of competitive play. And for what? So that little Jimmy wouldn't feel bad when he saw some scrub's video of him Ken comboing a comp set to stand? Yeah, real nice point there.

 

[LouisLeGros]

Sure thing, but implying hypocrisy on my part because you edited you post while I was making a reply and thus didn't address your edit? That is pretty low.


Orchestrated music
Do casual players really care? Then throw in just the sheer amount of music which undoubtedly cost a lot.

Trophies
trophies are clearly more of gift to long time fans and there are tons of them to collect (and you can bet it cost Nintendo money to make these). Features like these aren't really for the casual players who don't care to get 100% unlock on a game. This goes for the stickers, Chronicles section and etc as well.

Gamecube controller support
This is obviously for the melee owners. They could have made us use the wiimote and addons and made a killing on these purchases, but by supporting the gamecube controller they missed out on these profits.

then throw in stuff like training and tourney and well a lot of what the casual gamers want and use is subjective, but Nintendo certainly didn't take the cheapest route possible with every part of the game. Are casually gamers really going to notice the subtleties of the havok physics engine?

I'm sorry, are you STONED?!

If you make an overly complex product no one but a few elite can understand, you aren't going to make a profit either way. If you make a more simplified product that everyone can understand but a few can master with hard work then you can make a profit and still cater to those few who strive for greatness.

The goal was to make money first, then make a great game second. If you have a game where people can compete then the competitive aspect was never removed but just changed to fit the greater population.

tell that to melee which had waaaay more of that "overly complex" stuff. Did it effect the casual players that made Melee the best selling Gamecube game?

 

[Jeff Highwind]

WHAT KIND OF ***-BACKWARD THINKING IS THAT?!?!?!

If I'm a developer, DEVELOPER, and I'm thinking about making a game not for vision, not because I want to, not to prove I'm the best, or not to make people happy, but to make money... then I have a bad business strategy. People who care about money are producers. Producers change what the game, the game that is already set to be great, or, at least, attempted to be as such, is slightly so that it sells better FOR THEM.

I never said it was their grand master plan, I just said it was their goal.

Think about it this way, if you had the passion to start a business that hemorrhaged money until you were ruined, would you still maintain it? It'd be a noble cause but ultimately you can't even maintain that passion.

Self-Preservation is always a goal, even if it's not a conscious one. It's simple evolution, but then again Nintendo doesnt teach that (HUR HUR JOKE ON WII DESIGN).

 

[LouisLeGros]

and what the hell is up with

For you, maybe.

well excuse me, sorry that my farts smell. I guess we all can't be as blessed as you.

Why don't you go and tell that to a marketing major

 

[Jeff Highwind]

tell that to melee which had waaaay more of that "overly complex" stuff. Did it effect the casual players that made Melee the best selling Gamecube game?

It's had 4 years. One could turn lead into diamonds in that time.

 

[PwnyRide]

and what the hell is up with

well excuse me, sorry that my farts smell. I guess we all can't be as blessed as you.

Why don't you go and tell that to a marketing major

Why dont i? Well i dont know any, and everything that ive posted is based on common sense, something that you seem to lack by the looks of things, so i dont really expect you to understand. Now if you would like to continue this discussion, feel free to PM me, otherwise it's completely off-topic. We dont want to get this thread closed, do we?

Have a SUPER FABULOUS HAPPY DAY sweetie pie.

 

[LouisLeGros]

It's had 4 years. One could turn lead into diamonds in that time.

you missed the point.

Melee had extra depth beyond the basic gameplay which was very approachable. It sold very well.

Brawl had some of this extra depth with the e for all demo, but still had very approachable core gameplay. They removed a lot of the depth.

Does removing this depth mean it will sell more? Looking at melee I say no. Not having the depth doesn't mean it is going to sell less, but if the is the case then what was the point of removing it?

 

[Corigames]

I never said it was their grand master plan, I just said it was their goal.

Think about it this way, if you had the passion to start a business that hemorrhaged money until you were ruined, would you still maintain it? It'd be a noble cause but ultimately you can't even maintain that passion.

Self-Preservation is always a goal, even if it's not a conscious one. It's simple evolution, but then again Nintendo doesnt teach that (HUR HUR JOKE ON WII DESIGN).

When you become a game teacher, I'll sign up for a lesson. The POINT in the developer is to hemorrhage money. They spend 1.5-2 years, on a good game, or more without making any money. The most you can make in development time is having people pay to join a beta. That's it. That's why you have producers. They facilitate your company during the process and take a large chunk of the cash from profits for it.

If you are a developer, and your payment to the producer rides on your success, you had better pray to God that you and the rest of the team have passion. Self-preservation for the team should take place in game design, not business statistics.

 

[-==Marf==-]

in my opinion a competitive scene helps a game... look at starcraft... i wouldn't be playing it still if there wasn't the proleagues in korea and stuff... its interesting stuff.... you can learn and become better... a casual game can't develop the reputation a game like starcraft has. AND anyways... its not like you can't have both aspects in a game... thats where nintendo failed

 

[Jeff Highwind]

you missed the point.

Melee had extra depth beyond the basic gameplay which was very approachable. It sold very well.

And i say again, It's had time to cook. All the advanced techniques and hardcore gameplay wasn't determined in the two weeks of it's release. Hell even the most martyr'd technique Waevdashing took 1-2 years to discover and that was by mistake.

Brawl will follow the same path, you just aren't giving it the time to cook that Melee had. Some things may have been removed but it still seems that people are expecting immediate greatness from a newborn baby.

 

[LouisLeGros]

Why dont i? Well i dont know any, and everything that ive posted is based on common sense, something that you seem to lack by the looks of things, so i dont really expect you to understand. Now if you would like to continue this discussion, feel free to PM me, otherwise it's completely off-topic. We dont want to get this thread closed, do we?

Have a SUPER FABULOUS HAPPY DAY sweetie pie.

and there you go again ignoring my points and yet you have the gall to go and say I lack common sense.

You didn't address a single one of my points and you were subtlety (if that) insulting me in every one of your posts. I have no desire to continue this discussion with someone so full of themselves.

And i say again, It's had time to cook. All the advanced techniques and hardcore gameplay wasn't determined in the two weeks of it's release. Hell even the most martyr'd technique Waevdashing took 1-2 years to discover and that was by mistake.

Brawl will follow the same path, you just aren't giving it the time to cook that Melee had. Some things may have been removed but it still seems that people are expecting immediate greatness from a newborn baby.

the fact of the matter is that you are speculating and there are many that disagree with your prediction, but that is beside the point (I hope you are right though, after playing Brawl extensivly I don't really have hope though).

I gave specific example of depth being removed Whether or not there is still more hidden depth in brawl that will not make it a campfest does not matter. Hitstun was reduced, dash dancing was removed, tripping was made much more common, multiple forms of canceling were removed.

These are things that don't make the game more complex for the casual gamer, but add depth for the competitive players. I don't see any reason for why having those feature in Brawl would make it sell anyless.

 

[PwnyRide]

thats where nintendo failed

Funny you mention that. Because sales records disagree. They succeeded in their aim (that being, again, to make money), thats all that matters to them in the scope of things.

Unless by failed, you mean how you arent content with the game, well sadly it doesnt matter, you did buy the game afterall.

 

[-==Marf==-]

lol actually i said they failed to have both good competitive AND casual aspects n00b face... but good try...

And i still think a higher competitive level would have helped sales... if like WCG and MLG incorporated brawl it would boost sales a lot more... and everyone who bought it now did so because of the hype... not because they found out it was more casual

 

[PwnyRide]

lol actually i said they failed to have both good competitive AND casual aspects n00b face... but good try...

And again, having both competitive and casual aspects was not the aim of Sakurai or Nintendo, since a game featuring both those aspects in a perfect balance is YOUR preference for a game. AND again, your preference does not matter, since i'm assuming you are infact in the minority that isnt being catered to, or else you wouldnt be complaining about the game (although feel free to correct me on this).

You where saying something about me being a 'n00b' face'?

 

[LouisLeGros]

correct me if I'm wrong, but this thread is supposed to be about people being disappointed with Brawl as a product and what we can do it alleviate the problem?

I don't see where Nintendo's goal with Brawl comes into play. I see how one's opinion on the outcome would be related though.

 

[rageagainst]

No, because i'm right. Have you?

Also go ahead and list these features in Brawl that casuals would not bother using at all.

pwnyride i respected you as a fellow zelda player but you seem very arrogant today, its not that your entire point is wrong, its right in many ways, but you jump to assumptions that shouldn't be made and yes, you are ignoring your posts' counters.

what do you mean what features in brawl should we list that casuals woudn't use and what would be the point in doing so, specify

Brawl had plenty of competitive nature in it in the demo, and nintendo SPENT MONEY taking competitive aspects OUT, in otherwords they did NOT spend more money 2 make the game more competitive, and thought they would get more profits JUST BECAUSE THE GAME WASN'T COMPETITIVE.

Their argument isn't that flawed in that, on online, if adv techs were in, casuals would constantly lose, disrupting the even balance of wins/losses in With Anyone mode with FSs and Items in which on an ideal level, ANYONE should be able to win, and I mean ANYONE.

I find this uneccessary and overzealous destruction of one of the most competitive games ever for misguided intentions, as there arn't even that many competitive players, and matchups that result in a casual going up against a competitive on a With Anyone mode are going to be very minute (if competitive players use WithAnyone mode at all... crazy Japanese )

Nintendo is not geared at ALL to competitive players, mabye the hype to Brawll made us forget this and remember nintendos more hardcore attempts (such as melee, OoT, Mario 64, all of which hardcore by current nintendo's standards), but if you need a reminder say hi to "Cooking Mama". I would suggest an Xbox, mabye a PS3 since i hear its a good year, but you won't have ne one 2 play with because NO ONE has a PS3

 

[-==Marf==-]

PwnyRide you're not even making sense... how the hell does having a good casual AND competitive aspect cater to the minority? It caters to everyone..... that is the point of it.... For your sake i'll stop talking about games like starcraft because that might be too advanced for you... How about Halo? Would Halo have been so successful if it wasn't for the competitive aspect of it? Hell No.. I like the Brawl... dont get me wrong... but I just believe it could have been better... As do a ****load of people on the boards/all my friends etc... that debate has been going on in many threads so whatever I won't talk about that anymore... im just saying if nintendo could somehow cater to both it would help the game... i think everyone would agree...

 

[LouisLeGros]

pwnyride i respected you as a fellow zelda player but you seem very arrogant today, its not that your entire point is wrong, its right in many ways, but you jump to assumptions that shouldn't be made and yes, you are ignoring your posts' counters.

what do you mean what features in brawl should we list that casuals woudn't use and what would be the point in doing so, specify

Brawl had plenty of competitive nature in it in the demo, and nintendo SPENT MONEY taking competitive aspects OUT, in otherwords they did NOT spend more money 2 make the game more competitive, and thought they would get more profits JUST BECAUSE THE GAME WASN'T COMPETITIVE.

Their argument isn't that flawed in that, on online, if adv techs that casuals were in, casuals would constantly lose, disrupting the even balance of wins/losses in With Anyone mode with FSs and Items in which on an ideal level, ANYONE should be able to win, and I mean ANYONE.

I find this uneccessary and overzealous destruction of one of the most competitive games ever for misguided intentions, as there arn't even that many competitive players, and matchups that result in a casual going up against a competitive on a With Anyone mode are going to be very minute (if competitive players use WithAnyone mode at all...)

Nintendo is not geared at ALL to competitive players, mabye the hype to Brawll made us forget this and remember nintendos more hardcore attempts (such as melee, OoT, Mario 64, all of which hardcore by current nintendo's standards), but if you need a reminder say hi to "Cooking Mama". I would suggest an Xbox, mabye a PS3 since i hear its a good year, but you won't have ne one 2 play with because NO ONE has a PS3

SOMEONE THAT CAN READ, THANK GOD

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
I don't think I can say that enough, but really I mean it THANK YOU.

You are spot on. Yes Pwny had some valid points, but they were off tangent to what I was talking about and I agreed with them and saw no point in discussing "Nintendo's goal is to make money."

Going into discussion of profit making can get really deep with discussion of how the sales of Brawl will affect the sales of other software titles on the wii and influence hardware purchases and third party support which depends on their software's sales on the console. However, that is all relating to marketing which is all so simple and "common sense" right?


edit:
THANK YOU
and once again thank you, I think I can goto sleep now

 

[PwnyRide]

pwnyride i respected you as a fellow zelda player but you seem very arrogant today, its not that your entire point is wrong, its right in many ways, but you jump to assumptions that shouldn't be made and yes, you are ignoring your posts' counters.

Its okay, i respect you as well, and of course i dont expect us to share the same oppinion.
The thing is, the points people are bringing up generally involve how 'x' wasnt put in the game and how 'x' was taken out, it all goes back to the fact that Sakurai did not intend to specifically cater to the minority (in this case, being the competitive scene, and it's blatanty obvious, although this doesnt mean that people can't adapt, ive seen it happen already).

So i'm not so much completely ignoring the 'counters' as much as said members where ignoring mine.

what do you mean what features in brawl should we list that casuals woudn't use and what would be the point in doing so, specify

If you really want to get to an argument about Nintendo doing what ever possible to make the most profit then I could point out so many more things in Brawl that casual players really wouldn't care about but Nintendo still spent a large amount of money on.

^ This ^ He never pointed out the 'things in Brawl that casual players really wouldn't care about but Nintendo still spent a large amount of money on'

Brawl had plenty of competitive nature in it in the demo, and nintendo SPENT MONEY taking competitive aspects OUT, in otherwords they did NOT spend more money 2 make the game more competitive, and thought they would get more profits JUST BECAUSE THE GAME WASN'T COMPETITIVE.

How do you know they actually spent money taking something out? The issue of the new physics and air-dodging system changed the game alot, i know that this eliminated any way to wavedash. And no they didnt spend more money to make the game competitive, again, this wouldnt do Nintendo any good, because that's catering to the minority, i few pages back i explained why this would not provide the best results for them in terms of profit. Again, going in circles, it all goes back to the fact that they chose not to specifically cater to the minority, being the competitive community.

Their argument isn't that flawed in that, on online, if adv techs were in, casuals would constantly lose, disrupting the even balance of wins/losses in With Anyone mode with FSs and Items in which on an ideal level, ANYONE should be able to win, and I mean ANYONE.

Well thats not the case anyway. There are no advanced techs (i really dont want to make this into an advanced tech discussion, it's been beaten to death countless times already, we're all sick of it), and why would the competitive players even spend time on 'With Anyone' anyway if they're going to encounter casuals? Wouldnt they rather fight against other competitive players? Casuals would be more inclined to use the 'with anyone' feature, due to the same reason why casuals dont go to tourneys, that being; it's easier.

I find this uneccessary and overzealous destruction of one of the most competitive games ever for misguided intentions, as there arn't even that many competitive players, and matchups that result in a casual going up against a competitive on a With Anyone mode are going to be very minute (if competitive players use WithAnyone mode at all... crazy Japanese )

Well since theres no in-match communicaion, and no advanced techs, theres no way of telling if a competitive player is fighting a casual player and so-forth (apart from the obvious, a casual loosing the match ) I suppose thats the point of 'with anyone', you do in fact fight 'with anyone'

Nintendo is not geared at ALL to competitive players, mabye the hype to Brawll made us forget this and remember nintendos more hardcore attempts (such as melee, OoT, Mario 64, all of which hardcore by current nintendo's standards), but if you need a reminder say hi to "Cooking Mama". I would suggest an Xbox, mabye a PS3 since i hear its a good year, but you won't have ne one 2 play with because NO ONE has a PS3

The price certainly put me off a PS3

This is now though, Nintendo have said that they aimed the Wii in general at the casual players and fans, Brawl is proof of that (since so many competitive players are un-satisfied.) Theres an era forming here where the 'hardcore' gamer wont be as pronounced in Nintendo's gaming. Sony and Microsoft have chosen to stick along the path of catering to the competitive and hardcore. Nintendo are winning the Next Generation console race, they know what they 're doing, and they're doing it well.

I'm off now, ive put across my point , theres really nothing else for me to say. People need to remember though,

No matter that you beleive, you can't change the facts. Nintendo is out to make money. Thats all there is to it.

 

[Corigames]

Oh... I've been left out of the conversation.

 

[Wiseguy]

Well it seems as if our hopes and desires seemed to have been overlooked and disregarded by the exclusion of the game physics of Mellee.

I think you are confusing the complaints of a few for the feelings of the community at large. In my experience, the majority are very happy with how Brawl turned out. Personally, I wouldn't dream of asking Sakurai to change a thing because the game is, in my humble opinion, utterly and completely perfect.

Now if only Nintendo could get online servers that, you know, work...

 

[Corigames]

the game is, in my humble opinion, utterly and completely perfect.

Every time you say that, I can't tell if it is overwhelming sarcasm or truth. And, I bet, even if you replay to this with the answer, I will think that one is sarcastic too or something.

Perfect?

 

[Eriatarka]

It's incredible how many people think *cliched facepalm pic* "EPIC FAIL" is in any way a worthwhile contribution to a topic. Stop wasting the internet.
Everything Nintendo, or any other company, do, is motivated by profit. And if there was already sufficient interest in a new smash game, they would make it. But (I'd imagine) the "casual gamer" segment of the market far outweighs the number of competitive gamers, and even though a "Melee 2.0" would sell, it wouldn't sell in great enough numbers to recoup the development costs.

However, something which could be done, although it definitely won't without the petition to end all petitions, is a pure re-release of Melee, only with online capabilities. It would not cost a terrible amount to make, and there could be a sufficient number of buyers to recoup the costs of the release, as well as making a profit. I don't believe it's going to happen, at all, but it's a **** sight more realistic than hoping for a new game so soon. Just throwing it out there, I myself am happy with Brawl since it's fun and I don't play competitively.

And by the way, just because someone doesn't have many posts or joined in March, it doesn't automatically make them an "overnight fanboy". I've been an enthusiastic Smash player since Smash 64 and a boards lurker for a year now.

 

[IWontGetOverTheDam]

No. Just no. Sakurai spent the last 3 years of his life working on this game, and you know what? It's the best game ever made. There's no point in *****ing because it plays differently from Melee. "Waaah, it's not competetive." Shut the hell up. You're wrong. It's not that it's not competative. It's not Melee. Asking Sakurai to make you a new game so it will play differently? Okay, I'm sure he'll do that. It will be out just in time for Christmas 2014. That's likely the most unfeasible request ever made by anyone ever before in the history modern civilization. Good day, sir.

 

[Corigames]

No. Just no. Sakurai spent the last 3 years of his life working on this game, and you know what? It's the best game ever made. There's no point in *****ing because it plays differently from Melee. "Waaah, it's not competetive." Shut the hell up. You're wrong. It's not that it's not competative. It's not Melee. Asking Sakurai to make you a new game so it will play differently? Okay, I'm sure he'll do that. It will be out just in time for Christmas 2014. That's likely the most unfeasible request ever made by anyone ever before in the history modern civilization. Good day, sir.

I think this post has been made over 9000 times. Now that you said it, the entire debate has changed. Thanks for clarifying that for us!

As a side note, if you think this is the best game ever... I'd hate to see what other games you have played in your life.

 

[The Executive]

Brawl had plenty of competitive nature in it in the demo, and nintendo SPENT MONEY taking competitive aspects OUT...

Are you saying at back at E4A the physics weren't as horribly mangled as they are now?

 

[IWontGetOverTheDam]

I think this post has been made over 9000 times. Now that you said it, the entire debate has changed. Thanks for clarifying that for us!

As a side note, if you think this is the best game ever... I'd hate to see what other games you have played in your life.

You used sarcasm?!? That means you just won the internet!!!

Well, what's your favortie game? Halo 3? I'm not allowed to have an opinion now just because yours differs from mine?

 

[Corigames]

You used sarcasm?!? That means you just won the internet!!!

Well, what's your favortie game? Halo 3? I'm not allowed to have an opinion now just because yours differs from mine?

You know, your sentence was sarcastic too, *******.

MY favorite game? Super Metroid. Yours is a lousy fighter made for 8 year olds so that they can play with their friends and not get their feelings hurt when they lose. It's greatest tactic is not fighting. You can press random buttons and beat a good player. It's one player is more fun than the VS fighting.

Yeah, in this case, my opinion is better than someone else's.