Retaining Momentum After DJCs and Sick Ness Video

[DeliciousOctorok]

So I just found out about this guy named Calabrel and I think his Ness is absolutely godlike. I noticed though after watching him that it literally looks like he's air dashing across the stage when he DJCs. When I DJC, I almost always lose all my momentum. How can Calabrel move so fluidly with his DJCs and I can't? I tap up to initiate the double jump, which means I press X to short hop then tap up to double jump then use an aerial. Should I tap X/Y instead for DJCs? Also, I noticed Calabrel doesn't always jump cancel his magnet immediately and it even hits twice sometimes. Does the magnet give out two hits if you leave it out for a bit? Finally, I always assumed dtilt was just a trollish move, but now I'm thinking it could be used as a frame trap and even a "get off me" attack. Do I have the right mentality with his dtilt?

Also, Calabrel if you're on Smashboards and are reading this you are my new Ness role model.

P.S. How do I beat a Marth as Ness? So far every Marth I've gone against I've gotten bodied by as Ness.

 

[Deleted member]

P.S. How do I beat a Marth as Ness? So far every Marth I've gone against I've gotten bodied by as Ness.

SPACING is key in a VS Marth match.

Play Ness very carefully: Pretend every stock is your last and run away from him whenever you can. Pick large stages like Dreamland. Platforms will help you where as he doesn't need them, so always choose stages with platforms like Pokemon Stadium 2 or Battlefield. Shield wisely and Use lots of PK-fires. Short Hop - PK Fire - Fast Fall - Fobble* - Bat - Yoyo usually works if they have poorish SDI.
Just play spaced out and a little spammy, and be PATIENT.

How can Calabrel move so fluidly with his DJCs and I can't?

Remember to L-Cancel! (After you do an aerial attack, hit L, R, or even Z on your controller to divide the landing lag in half. In P:M if you do this right, your character will quickly flash white.)

Should I tap X/Y instead for DJCs?

It's whatever you prefer. I always use X-X-A(for an ariel)-L-Cancel.

Does the magnet give out two hits if you leave it out for a bit?

Ness' Magnet does have a Hitbox on it, but little knockback and some decent damage. It's used to push people away. No matter how long you hold it out for, hit boxes with pop on and off that can damage opponents.


*Fobbling:
So, you should know by now about Project: M's new Knockback stacking addition to 2.5. This addon caneasily be exploited. Let me explain:

In Project: M, many moves have magical things called Multiple Hitboxes. (Examples: Jigg's Dair, Luigi's Running attack, etc) These hitboxes produce damage and some small knockback to opponents. One of the moves that has multiple hitboxes is Ness' PK-Fire. Using these multiple hitboxes, you can cancel knockback from moves that weren't intended to be canceled.

Need some explanation? Watch this video:
http://youtu.be/z8qQ1jzw3ZE?t=55s

Skip to about 55 seconds in. You'll see Jigg's punch completely cancels the knockback from a rest. We're doing something similar here, but with a 'Static Lock Move' (A move that stays still and briefly locks you into it, but is still DI-able). Because PK-Fire is static and 'locks' your opponent into the ground, you have the perfect chance to do some dirty work.

If you use Ness' bat's hitbox in less than 10 frames before another hitbox of the PK-Fire is applied, you lock your opponent by canceling the move's knockback. This is called Fobbling. Fobbling cancelled the knockback from the first bat, and it allows you to use another bat or other move with knockback. It's all about timing.

Example Video:
http://youtu.be/6Y_XteaVmGU?t=4s

 

[Nido]

For ****'s sake Aliami, not this fobbling crap again.

 

[SouthernGent]

If you want to keep your momentum while double jump cancelling then it is best to use X/X (or Y/Y, X/Y, Y/X whatever you prefer) because that way you are still able to jump in a certain direction using the analog stick. Though using the jump button to tap jump method is still very useful, especially when also including the c-stick, because it allows you to do near instant Dairs, Fairs and Bairs (oh my!)

Agreed Nido, I am completely fine with just referring to it KBC (Knock Back Cancel) rather than some ridiculous and unneeded name such as Fobbling.

 

[DeliciousOctorok]

SPACING is key in a VS Marth match.

Play Ness very carefully: Pretend every stock is your last and run away from him whenever you can. Pick large stages like Dreamland. Platforms will help you where as he doesn't need them, so always choose stages with platforms like Pokemon Stadium 2 or Battlefield. Shield wisely and Use lots of PK-fires. Short Hop - PK Fire - Fast Fall - Fobble* - Bat - Yoyo usually works if they have poorish SDI.
Just play spaced out and a little spammy, and be PATIENT.

Thanks for the tips for Marth. I tend to not dashdance and wavedash as much as I should. I still have a rather scrubby mind set lol.

Ness' Magnet does have a Hitbox on it, but little knockback and some decent damage. It's used to push people away. No matter how long you hold it out for, hit boxes with pop on and off that can damage opponents.

Oh okay it's pop on and off. That's pretty awesome really. I saw Calabrel use it as really good shield pressure. I'm gonna have to experiment with it more.

If you want to keep your momentum while double jump cancelling then it is best to use X/X (or Y/Y, X/Y, Y/X whatever you prefer) because that way you are still able to jump in a certain direction using the analog stick. Though using the jump button to tap jump method is still very useful, especially when also including the c-stick, because it allows you to do near instant Dairs, Fairs and Bairs (oh my!)

Okay that's what I thought. I'll try using X->Y to minimize the height of the DJC as much as possible.