Roll and spotdodging habits

[Deleted member 189823]

How do you think these bad habits originate?
Personally, I think rolling is a habit new players originate by thinking their best option to get out of a shield or "dodge" is to roll away. I've seen it alot, and I've suffered it myself at the start.
As for spotdodging...I've been told I have a bad habit of doing so when I could sit on my shield more- Personally, I do it a little bit more than average because I don't want to sit on my shield as it decreases or am afraid to get grabbed- Well, at least that's what it felt like at the start, maybe I just developed it and keep doing it just because.

What do you guys think?

 

[-LzR-]

Well obviously because they are very powerful and simple options to use. A move that comes out in like 3 frames and makes you invincible with little lag? Who wouldn't like to use it when they feel like they are in danger. Now against middle level players this causes you to be owned, but in lowlevels it can be as simple as hitting a shield, spotdodge their punish and punish them instead, it just works. In lower levels of play moves that will easily beat dodges like tornado and devastating.
Damn I hate spotdodges, they are so dumb.

 

[SoulPech]

It's interesting because I tend to do more airdodging and rolling on wifi because the moves are roughly safe (at least when I use it). Offline, I don't do it as much. I think it's to make up for the lag for the wifi connection. Instead of running backwards, I can just shield and roll back

 

[Orngeblu]

I usually expect people to roll into me. That's a habit most people have, I noticed, as well. (Even I do it sometimes...and I should stop) But I have adjusted myself to catch those rolls by pivot grabbing, or smash attack.

I also have a habit of shielding for a while, and after that, I try to jump away... It doesn't work most of the time... I think I need to think faster in those moments.

 

[Zankoku]

The habits of rolling behind, spotdodging, and air-dodging toward the opponent all stem from the desire to both avoid an attack and land your own attack immediately afterward. As a product of both fear and impatience, they're probably some of the easiest-to-read habits among mid-high level play.

 

[kismet2]

^thisssssssss

 

[Haze~]

I saw this clip of masha vs mikeneko and masha vas trapped in his shield on the edge and marth infront of him, most ppl would roll behind marth but get ***** afterwards , masha got tipperfsmashed and died cause he stayed in his shield too long so i was thinking what the **** what was he suposed to do? While holding his shield on the edge infront of tipper spacing... what would be the safest option?

 

[infiniteV115]

Jump and airdodge? Shield drop --> reflector?
Shield drop --> reshield any attack --> you get pushed off stage --> now you're on the edge.

There are a ton of options lol

 

[Haze~]

Jump and airdodge? Shield drop --> reflector?
Shield drop --> reshield any attack --> you get pushed off stage --> now you're on the edge.

There are a ton of options lol

who the hell would do that in that position k ima look up the vid to show you

 

[Haze~]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VL11sIknMY&playnext=1&list=PL764AD77CB3315DE7&feature=results_video

i jiggle everytime LOL but it was a fair tho last match last stock, hes like: **** gotta shield on stage i bet he'll hit my shield anytime now, any moment now, oh **** hes jumping man i should do something, **** it hold shield *dies*

 

[infiniteV115]

He could have brolled to get out of his tipper spacing. Mikeneko would have had to drop shield, and then dash to followup.

Or jump --> tipper nair but there would have been a very small window for reaction.

 

[BSP]

After you play long enough, you start realizing that in most cases, the worst that can happen to you if you sit in shield is get grabbed, compared to a roll where you commit and can get punished quite hard

 

[Haze~]

yeah backroll would be the best option there i guess, still anyone would choke in that exact situation lol

 

[infiniteV115]

Yeah I know what you mean I'm not calling him a scrub or anything for getting hit by that, **** looked tense as ****.

I'm just saying that he DID have options; it's just hard to identify options in a situation like that.

 

[Haze~]

with a shield like that even jab would stab through it

 

[Haze~]

i love those situations, so much pressure on both players hehe

 

[Delta-cod]

who the hell would do that in that position k ima look up the vid to show you

Unshield > Reshield is a pretty common Yoshi thing. At least, I do it. And the other Yoshis should do it too.

 

[teluoborg]

Haze I am disappoint.

It's Falco we're talking about, Masha should've simply spammed spotdodge.

Also about the main topic, I think the habit of rolling is gained because rolls are hard to punish at low levels of play. So by the time you reach mid level there's still somewhere in your brain where "rolls = safe" is written.
It personnally took me a lot of time and good players to reconsider this assumption.

 

[-LzR-]

I personally totally skipped the rolling phase and have only recently started to use rolls, of course now being smart enough to use them well. Though for the first 2 years I mained Rob so the spotdodge -> dsmash thing really sticked for a long time and I didn't roll because his roll was ****. I just don't get it why bad players don't stop rolling behind you after you punish it for the 50th time in a row.

 

[teluoborg]

Because they're bad ? Duh.

 

[Haze~]

Haze I am disappoint.

It's Falco we're talking about, Masha should've simply spammed spotdodge.

Also about the main topic, I think the habit of rolling is gained because rolls are hard to punish at low levels of play. So by the time you reach mid level there's still somewhere in your brain where "rolls = safe" is written.
It personnally took me a lot of time and good players to reconsider this assumption.

if your not d3, spamming spotdodge infront of marths shfair tipper is a pretty bad idea xD If you have a habit and get punished for it too much then break it by forcing other options cause your obviously using it wrong, and once you've stopped rolling like a dummie you can start rolling while knowing what will happen with the situation after the roll, like you get a better covering option afterwards when ur opponent wants to land(agressive roll) or to get out of situations safetly ex backroll(defensive roll) which are great and used in top lvl play all the time.

well backroll as in roll away i mean but sure use backroll to get in/behind if ur chars broll speed is greater

 

[DekuTree]

I have a habit of trying to spot dodge Lucas's down smash

 

[SnowCold]

I personally have a really bad SHIELDING habit. I kind of just stay in my shield way to much. I managed to quickly out grow my rolling habit, and for awhile I had good dodge habits in general, but now it's grown into a shielding habit. I play marth and I love punishing stuff on shield or rolls, but I get grabbed a lot...

 

[Death Arcana]

i personally think its better to get grabbed than get hit with an attack
but hey i main toon link who doesn't get owned by grabs that much

 

[BlueXenon]

I think spot dodge and roll habits start as soon as a new player finds out about them. New players have a very small technical capacity so they have very few options. This causes them to over use the options they do have which are rolls and spot dodges.

 

[Lukingordex]

I really never use rolls,they are pretty useless in my opinion.

 

[infiniteV115]

Maybe you should play some ICs players
Or a DDD player or something

 

[Lukingordex]

That's situational lol,plus I know that they will try to grab me,and i can use better tools than rolls to avoid grabs...

 

[infiniteV115]

That was meant to be a response to DeathKingSuarez, I just didn't see that you ninja'd me.
Rolls aren't useless, they are very useful (well, it varies from char to char). They're just bad if you do them out of habit because it's really predictable and punishable.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Unshield > Reshield is a pretty common Yoshi thing. At least, I do it. And the other Yoshis should do it too.

But Yoshi's shield-drop is sooooo bad XD

 

[kismet2]

That's situational lol,plus I know that they will try to grab me,and i can use better tools than rolls to avoid grabs...

everything is situational, some options have more situations that you can use them than others hence why the really good things get abused.

 

[Bobert]

I have a bad habit of rolling into down smashes like Falcons and Ikes sometimes. :\

 

[Luigimitsu]

When I play people who spotdodge a lot, I will often miss grabs because I play with other people who know not to do it. After not so long, I will approach them, ready for the spot dodge, and do whatever I want: wait and then grab, do a smash attack, or up b with Luigi for example, I have used all of these options to punish spot dodges. It's a useful mindgame if you know they are going to grab you, but if you just spot dodge all the time then anything could hit you. As for rolls, only ever roll away and don't do it when you're right next to someone if they are fast enough to punish it. Both spot dodges and rolls have frames where you can be hit without doing anything and they are punishable.

 

[sheikamaru]

i used to have a bad rolling habit.


now i use it as a tool to bait my enemies to think im going to roll then punish accordingly.

i main sheik.





i still have a slight spot dodging habit. but it changes fast if im punished for it xD



i still main sheik.


someone help my boy pj and asa at phoenix saga 5 plzzz

 

[Akenero]

I used to have a stupid rolling habit,I used the roll to go across the stage sometimes,I've fixed that,and now I spotdodge more...which makes me actually use the shield...
I used the shield 0 times...ever...now I use it a lot.

 

[Mr Toast]

Rolling should be used as a last-resort option. As you get better at exploring options, you'll see yourself rolling less and less. As for spot dodging, it can actually be very helpful when reading a grab attempt and punishing it very, very hard.