• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

Status
Not open for further replies.

JPW

Smash Ace
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
903
Location
Sydney, Australia
yeah i just started playing Fossil Fighters myself and i'm finding that they would fit just fine into Smash. I've thought that Dino would work out as a character all on his own but T-Rex would be a better option just cause Dino is not actually a fighter. though I don't really see Fossil Fighters making the cut character wise anyway. Assist Trophy but i'm not seeing them character wise. but i would welcome them wholeheartedly.
I would love to see a T-Rex Character. Bowser isn't exactly a T-Rex these days. T-Rex never had spikes on his back. In fact he never had any spikes or horns.

However unless this franchise can cover more ground before 2014 i see the best thing happening or we can hope for is an Assist.
 

Vintage Creep

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
4,671
Location
Silent Hill
NNID
VintageCreep
Never heard of this "Fossil Fighters" before. Looks cool, do you really think that it has a chance of getting a rep? Because, I mean, a T-Rex in Smash would be like the coolest thing ever.

How did the game score both commercially and critically?
 

3Bismyname

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
2,014
Location
Hyrule Fields
Fossil Fighters was criticized by a lot of reviewers to be a Pokemon clone and at first glance i can see that. but it is a different gaming experience imo. but it still got just average reviews. the first did sell quite well in both Japan and America but I don't know how the 2nd did. in Japan the game was the 15 best selling DS game that year so that's pretty good. but like JPW said, unless the series does something by 2014, it probably won't cause the series doesn't have a very substantial fanbase yet.
 

Johnknight1

Upward and Forward, Positive and Persistent
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
18,966
Location
Livermore, the Bay repping NorCal Smash!
NNID
Johnknight1
3DS FC
3540-0575-1486
You know what, I used to think that if/when Mega Man is playable in Smash Bros, that there'd be all kinds of assist trophy characters from Capcom, like Ryu, Chris Redfield, and Dante. But dang, after seeing how awful and emo Dante looks, and after painfully experiencing Resident Evil 5, I kinda hope the latter 2 never appear in smash bros. Ever.
Yeah well I agree, it's just brainstorming. And who knows, maybe Namco gets more reps... They're working on the title, aren't they?
I doubt any 3rd party company not named SEGA will ever get a second 3rd party character playable in smash bros. That is, unless said 3rd party company is bought out by Nintendo, which I think could very possibly happen to SEGA or Platinum Games.
 

SmasherMaster

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Messages
1,679
Location
USA
NNID
TelevisionGamer
You know what, I used to think that if/when Mega Man is playable in Smash Bros, that there'd be all kinds of assist trophy characters from Capcom, like Ryu, Chris Redfield, and Dante. But dang, after seeing how awful and emo Dante looks, and after painfully experiencing Resident Evil 5, I kinda hope the latter 2 never appear in smash bros. Ever.
Not to mention Zero and Protoman
 

Robert of Normandy

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
9,478
Location
Crossbell City
NNID
shinpichu
3DS FC
2251-3915-5139
Switch FC
SW-4957-7233-2307
I said "no" when I saw he cut TL and added Tingle. Seriously, people, why do you have such hate-ons for Toonie?
 

Robert of Normandy

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
9,478
Location
Crossbell City
NNID
shinpichu
3DS FC
2251-3915-5139
Switch FC
SW-4957-7233-2307
It's mostly because some people, like myself, only want one Link. It's not that they hate Toon Link.
That's dumb. There's a whole bunch of different Links in the Zelda franchise, so IMO the idea of having multiple Link isn't too :083:. :troll:

Plus, TL fills the role of the smaller, more mobile Link.
 

Robert of Normandy

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
9,478
Location
Crossbell City
NNID
shinpichu
3DS FC
2251-3915-5139
Switch FC
SW-4957-7233-2307
Alternate costumes is the way.
Assuming you're talking about TL. TL as a costume for Link can't work, because TL's body is built differently from normal Link's. That would mean that all new animations would have to be made, as well as changing the hitboxes on all of Links attacks.
 

Vintage Creep

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
4,671
Location
Silent Hill
NNID
VintageCreep
Assuming you're talking about TL. TL as a costume for Link can't work, because TL's body is built differently from normal Link's. That would mean that all new animations would have to be made, as well as changing the hitboxes on all of Links attacks.
Well in that case, I agree with people who say that the spot should go to another character. Anyway, alternate costumes could have some minor differences, I think it would work.
 

Robert of Normandy

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
9,478
Location
Crossbell City
NNID
shinpichu
3DS FC
2251-3915-5139
Switch FC
SW-4957-7233-2307
Well in that case, I agree with people who say that the spot should go to another character. Anyway, alternate costumes could have some minor differences, I think it would work.
Cosmetic differences, yes. Unless you want one of the worst cases of hitbox dissonance in history, having TL be a costume swap for Link would require major non-asthetic changes.
 

SmasherMaster

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Messages
1,679
Location
USA
NNID
TelevisionGamer
Because people think that every Pokemon generation should have one character. But I now know better. Can't believe that I wanted Scizor in because of Gen II needs a good character
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Toon Link took a swig of the anger-inducing drink that Mario drank before the game.
 

Youngster Joey

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
474
3DS FC
4871-5018-1679
i only say no TL because we dont need 2 links. get 1 link and give him TLs moveset. also i dont like tingle either but he has good reasons
 

GiantBreadbug

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
921
Location
Buckhannon, West Virginia
NNID
GiantBreadbug
3DS FC
5327-0910-4273
Normally I'd be firmly in the "no double characters" boat, but I have to stick up for Tink. Link is literally the only character that I can justify having a double for, and they did a fine job differentiating them in Brawl. Now if Tink could just have unique specials...
 

Reyson

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
220
Normally I'd be firmly in the "no double characters" boat, but I have to stick up for Tink. Link is literally the only character that I can justify having a double for, and they did a fine job differentiating them in Brawl. Now if Tink could just have unique specials...
I don't think he's the only character, you could argue that Mario has enough versions of himself that it could warrant a second Mario character(Paper, Doctor, Sunshine, 8-bit, Sports,...). That said, I really loved Young Link in Melee and got to love Toon Link later on, so I really want them to stay. What could be a good comprimise is if they finally made the actual Link a decent character and maybe make him a bit faster so he's somewhere inbetween Toon Link and actual Link. There would have to be a good reason to get rid of him though and I really don't see one. Legend of Zelda doesn't have that many representatives as it is and most of the characters suggested to replace Toon Link are either one off characters or Tingle, who has about equal number of fans as he does haters.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Because apparently people see a pattern that hasn't even came up yet.
so why do people think that PT will be replaced by different gen PT

It's not about "seeing a pattern" actually following patterns is a misleading train of thought. It is futile. I can't remember the name of the dilemma but it goes like this:
"Just because X event happened every time until now, doesn't guarantee it will happen again in the future."

An example would be, say you go to the park every day, and every time you go there you see an old man feeding pigeons. Every day you go, every day he's there. Now, can you guarantee that he will be there next time? Well no you can't ( he might die, get sick, have a change of plans, etc...). You can be really sure he will be, but there is no certainty. Your mind notices the pattern and expects it to happen in the future, but in reality, the events are independent from one an other. The past and future are NOT interdependent. Well, at least not to that extent. So just because something was true in the past doesn't mean it's guaranteed to be true in the future as well.

Now that's what people need to realize when looking at the roster. The previous patterns we've seen before serve as decent starting points, but they are by NO means set in stone. You're better off using critical thinking, and analyzing why certain characters could fit in the game given other criteria. Think outside the box.

So, in the case of Pokemon Trainer it's the following:

We have 4 Pokemon characters (I'm counting PT as one for simplicity's sake).
-Pika
-Jiggs
-Lucario
-PT Red

Mewtwo was supposed to be in according to Rumors.

Now, we can be sure another Pokemon rep will join in one way or another. Why? Because this roster is now outdated as far as representation goes. Now lets keep in mind one thing. Generation 5 is BIG. It is an important Generation as it's the REBOOT of the Pokemon series. The intent of Black and White was to go back to the roots and try to work things up from a new point, making the games bigger and more story focused, a very welcomed change among the Pokemon Community. To further support this point, B/W are the first games to get direct sequels with B2/W2, something we've never really seen happen in Pokemon before.

So with that mentioned, Gen 5 is indeed worthy of a candidate. Now, as a reboot, it's very likely that Gen 5 will replace the original PT, why? 2 reasons. 1, The Unova Trainer/N is like the NEW Generation, even more so than the previous trainers. It's not new as in the NEXT generation, but new as in a whole different take on the franchise. Putting Hilber/Hilda/N in, is not the same as putting Dawn/Lucas in. They are more Iconic trainers as a whole simply because Gen 5 was the reboot of the series.

Then the argument comes up. "Why don't they put Zoroark in and keep Red?" There's that nasty pattern thinking again. See how it trips people up. Not saying it's impossible, just saying its a poor uninspiring choice. When you follow patterns in game design, games become predictable and boring. You gotta be vibrant and innovative down to the simplest details. I see what you're trying to say: Have Zoroark replace Lucario and keep the rest of the cast, add Mewtwo. But see, that pattern doesn't quite work... For one, Mewtwo was supposed to be in Brawl to begin with, but was cut for whatever reason. Meaning, Lucario was never meant to replace him, thus rendering your pattern invalid. Second, as I said before Zoroark isn't as Iconic to the Pokemon Franchise this Generation as Lucario was to the last, the focus this time around falls more on the trainers, thus, making a new trainer a wiser choice. Lastly, Generation 6 is just around the corner, and will surely be (at least) announced by the time SSB4 comes out, meaning, we're likely to have a new candidate to take Zoroark's "iconic role" before then.

So, with all that in mind, lets looks at what we can do:

In my opinion, Having Red get replaced by a Unova trainer, be it: Hilber/Hilda/Rosa/Nate, or N, would be a good iconic representation of what happened to the Pokemon franchise when Gen 5 rolled along. Not to mention, this brings the opportunity of being able to have Red as an in-game-Boss where you are challenged by him a la Mt. Silver in Gen 2, thus paying homage to that classic scene.

Pika and Jiggs stay because they are Iconic due to the anime.

Mewtwo makes his desired comeback due to fan requests and the fact that he was supposed to be in anyway. Also, he serves as a good rep of the Classic days of Pokemon.

Lastly Lucario is a give or take, he's up in the air, either he stays, or maybe he gets replaced by someone from Gen 6. His situation is actually the hardest to predict to me.

Just my two cents is all.




Thoughts?
Oh and...
>inb4 tl;dr
 

shrooby

Let me know when I'm supposed to laugh, okay?
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 12, 2011
Messages
3,720
Location
Snooping as usual
NNID
shrooby
3DS FC
2320-6364-8294
The problem I see with replacing the current Pokemon Trainer is that it would also cut Charizard AKA one of the most popular Pokemon ever. Now, in all honesty, I'm not the kind of person who loves Charizard to death, but I know that cutting the thing would result in many complaints. While I do agree that we should get something from Gen5, I don't think that cutting one the most well known (we're talking at least Mewtwo status here) Pokemon is the way to go. To get a Gen5 trainer while replacing the Gen1 trainer, I think the best way to go would be to make Charizard its own standalone character, and then bring in the Gen5 trainer. Note: That's only what I think should happen. It's most likely not going to.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
The problem I see with replacing the current Pokemon Trainer is that it would also cut Charizard AKA one of the most popular Pokemon ever. Now, in all honesty, I'm not the kind of person who loves Charizard to death, but I know that cutting the thing would result in many complaints. While I do agree that we should get something from Gen5, I don't think that cutting one the most well known (we're talking at least Mewtwo status here) Pokemon is the way to go. To get a Gen5 trainer while replacing the Gen1 trainer, I think the best way to go would be to make Charizard its own standalone character, and then bring in the Gen5 trainer. Note: That's only what I think should happen. It's most likely not going to.
Well, Charizard being the MOST popular or one of the most popular Pokemon ever is a very subjective point of view. Because in my opinion he really isn't. He WAS very popular among the older fans of the series, being one of the more common choices for a starter. But nowadays, most of the older fans have moved on to other Pokemon (as Charizard is not a viable competitive choice), or have stopped caring. I doubt many people would care if he was cut.

Also, suppose we get N as our replacement for Red. With N you could have Zorua/Zoroark and two more iconic non-starter Pokemon (because personally I hate the Gen 5 starters), thus killing two birds with one stone.

Here's a list of N's Pokemon, not sure what other choices are good Besides Zorua/Zoroark, Darmatian, and Reshiram/Zekrom for FS.
http://serebii.net/black2white2/nspokemon.shtml
http://serebii.net/black2white2/n.shtml
http://serebii.net/blackwhite/plasma.shtml

Oh for the record, N's not a villain, he's actually one of the Heroes. He was just misguided in B1/W1.
 

3Bismyname

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
2,014
Location
Hyrule Fields
^^this. It's been noted that Sakurai doesn't really care about generations but more on popularity. it's not just Charizard (though he is number one(. Charizard, Squirtle and Ivysaur are in the top 50 most liked pokemon. except maybe Ivysaur i think he falls somewhere in the 70's. Pokemon Trainer killed 3 birds with one stone. the pokemon that gen 5 trainer would use don't even break top 100 (with the exception of Serperior). now i can get bringing back Mewtwo, he's still very popular and represents the series well. but 5 Gen is not very popular overall with only the some legendary's and Zoroark being popular. pokemon trainer isn't going anywhere because he encompasses 3 very popular pokemon while if N or gen 5 trainer made it, they would be using only 1 popular pokemon at most
 

Robert of Normandy

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
9,478
Location
Crossbell City
NNID
shinpichu
3DS FC
2251-3915-5139
Switch FC
SW-4957-7233-2307
Well, Charizard being the MOST popular or one of the most popular Pokemon ever is a very subjective point of view. Because in my opinion he really isn't. He WAS very popular among the older fans of the series, being one of the more common choices for a starter. But nowadays, most of the older fans have moved on to other Pokemon (as Charizard is not a viable competitive choice), or have stopped caring. I doubt many people would care if he was cut.
http://www.ign.com/top/pokemon/1

You forget that many older fans always wear nostalgia goggles and only think the Gen 1/2 Pokemon are well designed.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
http://www.ign.com/top/pokemon/1

You forget that many older fans always wear nostalgia goggles and only think the Gen 1/2 Pokemon are well designed.
Well I stand corrected.

Still, a Gen 5 trainer still embodies that transition the Pokemon franchise has gone through, and both the youth, and the "hard core" fans have accepted and welcomed this Gen.

I doubt anyone that's played B/W/B2/W2 would be unhappy to see a Gen 5 rep replace Red. Not to mention Charizard would now be a boss, making him less of a pushover. And Mewtwo would be in to Rep the Old Gen, Mewtwo IS number 2 on that list after all.

I feel with Pokemon it's umportant to represent the franchise as it is now. Having 6 Gen 1 Pokemon, and 1 Gen 4, and a new Gen 5 is kinda unbalanced. Now Pika and Jiggs represent the franchise as a whole. But why giving Gen 5 simply a new stage and replacing Lucario with a Zoroark, definitely undermines teh significance of Gen 5.

Not all games require an update to their latest entry, for example, Zelda Skyward Sword isn't THAT big, at least not compared to Pokemon Gen 5, still people clamor for having not only redesigns on the characters, but also seeing stand-alone bosses make the cut. Considering how big Gen 5 was, it certainly deserves more focus.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
It has been shown time and time again that Sakurai doesn't give a crap about balancing the Gens. Pokemon are Pokemon are Pokemon.

He merely looks at newer Pokemon to check both viability and popularity to determine whether they would be a good fit for Smash; he doesn't have them "represent" anything.
 

Reyson

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
220
Good, there is no attempt to represent every game in other franchises so I don't see the point of doing this with Pokémon. Cool, unique and popular characters should get priority over shoehorning in a representative of every gen. The first generation is simply the most iconic of them all so it makes sense that many of those pokémon are more popular.
 

Vintage Creep

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
4,671
Location
Silent Hill
NNID
VintageCreep
I liked the fifth gen, I think it's a lot better than third and fourth as designs of the creatures. The starters though, I didn't like them. I hope they go for something different, keeping the Pokémon Trainer and using N, or who knows, a member of the Plasma team as another trio or duo.
I hate cuts anyway, I hate them with all my heart.

Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard are awesome they have to stay.
 

GiantBreadbug

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
921
Location
Buckhannon, West Virginia
NNID
GiantBreadbug
3DS FC
5327-0910-4273
I don't think he's the only character, you could argue that Mario has enough versions of himself that it could warrant a second Mario character(Paper, Doctor, Sunshine, 8-bit, Sports,...). That said, I really loved Young Link in Melee and got to love Toon Link later on, so I really want them to stay. What could be a good comprimise is if they finally made the actual Link a decent character and maybe make him a bit faster so he's somewhere inbetween Toon Link and actual Link. There would have to be a good reason to get rid of him though and I really don't see one. Legend of Zelda doesn't have that many representatives as it is and most of the characters suggested to replace Toon Link are either one off characters or Tingle, who has about equal number of fans as he does haters.
Well, when I say justify, I sorta mean in terms of characterization and the like.

The parallels between two Links are much more explicit and warranted than those between two Marios. I mean, one of the major characteristics of Link as a person is that there's always a different him. And when I say different, I mean literally a different person, not just the same person with a different appearance (like Paper Mario, Doc Mario, etc.).

It "makes sense" for there to be two Links playable. I'm not saying that I'm altogether thrilled with the idea of multiple versions of characters being playable, but it at least makes sense for two Links to be present, since they are actually different people entirely. Plus, a second, "younger" Link has been present since Melee, which is enough for me to consider him a no-cut veteran at this point.

For me, who a character represents is as important as many other things, which is why I'm not a huge fan of Paper/Doc/Other Mario being playable. It's like, "Hey, you can play as Mario, or you can play as Mario made of Paper!" I understand the potential for a different playstyle, but before Sakurai goes and adds permutations of existing characters, I'd rather he looked for separate, literally unique entities.


And as for the Pokemon discussion, no Red and the Kanto Starters ain't going nowhere. The existing setup was chosen because of its wildly popular and iconic nature.

That having been said, I do expect (and very much want) a 5th gen rep, be it Zoroark, Genesect, or a Pokemon Trainer-style N. I think that BW/BW2 are a rift in the series (in a good way), and they really do have some Pokemon that would be awesome to play.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Well, we'll just leave the 5 Gen discussion at that, it's going nowhere.

Thoughts on possible Gen 6 reps? Think we'll get a new Pokemon Gen before Smash comes out?
 

FlareHabanero

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
16,443
Location
New Jersey
No 6th gen reputation, it'll be too late to get any of them. Beside even if it was available, there is the possibility that none of them would be viable anyway.

Which reminds me, I have a theory that Gen 6 will be an "expansion generation" in a vein similar to Gen 2, with at least 100 new Pokemon with several evolutions and pre-evolutions exclusive to the Pokemon from Gen 5. Also the ability to visit Unova after beating the Elite Four and visit varies locations to defeat all of the Unova gym leaders.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
No 6th gen reputation, it'll be too late to get any of them. Beside even if it was available, there is the possibility that none of them would be viable anyway.

Which reminds me, I have a theory that Gen 6 will be an "expansion generation" in a vein similar to Gen 2, with at least 100 new Pokemon with several evolutions and pre-evolutions exclusive to the Pokemon from Gen 5. Also the ability to visit Unova after beating the Elite Four and visit varies locations to defeat all of the Unova gym leaders.
If Gen 5's new direction serves as any indication it's completely far-fetched to try and guess what Gen 6 will be like. The only thing you can be sure of, is that it will likely be a region NOT based in Japan. Unova is based of New York, but also throws a lot of general American Landmarks, like Hollywood. My guess is that it'd be set in the West Coast, since the WC has a lot of variety in enviroments from Mountains, to Forests to Deserts, to Volcanoes, and Canyons and Lakes, Bay, CIties, and Islands of coast of SoCal and the Deep Sea of the Pacific. My ideal would be spanning from Sacramento, down to San Diego, and over into New Mexico, to invlude the Meteor Crater, Rosswell, Bryce Canyon and even some Ghost towns.

However, a lot of that was already seen in B2/W2. There's an area mid-game clearly based off of New Mexico. So, My guess is up in the air really. Hell, we could get Europe or even China for our next region.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom