S Tier

[TwentyTwo]

A lot of the other character boards, have a topic like this. I know we haven't moved any in the tier list, but we did get our own tier, I'd like to hear some of your guy's opinions on our place and tier.

I personally thought Snake and MK should be sharing the Top Tier.

 

[_Yes!_]

Metaknight beats snake dude. Metaknight has no disadvantage versus anyone either.

Snake on the other hand, has annoyances like Falco, Dedede, and Olimar to deal with. In my opinion he wins those matchups, but it's much harder for Snake, and it's not that hard at all for Metaknight.

 

[misterpimp5757]

i agree with cowtipper(lol at name)

mk has maybe one counter well not really a counter and thats diddy.

snake has disadvantages against alot of people...A LOT.

 

[_Yes!_]

Haha the name is Yes! but it's all good. It's not a disadvantage per se...I just think the Snake has to play really smart to win, which is very possible. Diddy doesn't counter Metaknight; Ninjalink counters Mew2king.

Metaknight is at best even or slightly Metaknight favored imo.

 

[napZzz]

Falco needs to be put in snakes "S" tier because they are very close as characters. The things seperating them is falcos lack of a solid kill move

 

[_Yes!_]

A friend of mine (Atomsk, if that rings a bell) actually thinks Falco is better than Snake. I have yet to be fully convinced of that, but one thing for sure is that Falco can safely use the same strategy for every matchup while Snake cannot.

 

[Black_Heretic]

A friend of mine (Atomsk, if that rings a bell) actually thinks Falco is better than Snake. I have yet to be fully convinced of that, but one thing for sure is that Falco can safely use the same strategy for every matchup while Snake cannot.

I thought every matchup was camp with nade, space with ftilt

 

[_Yes!_]

I guess that's true. I like to use C4 to Uair or Bair (trying to add Nair into that too but the opportunity hasn't seemed to present itself yet) to make it seem more exciting.

 

[cycon365]

(trying to add Nair into that too but the opportunity hasn't seemed to present itself yet) to make it seem more exciting.

Getting your opponent to jump over a grenade is excellent for Nair

or explosion from said grenade


is there anything the grenade can't do?

 

[_Yes!_]

Well the people I play usually shield or run away...I prefer to get a grenade behind them and just hold A they freak out and then I dash grab their sheild, or they get hit by my AAA and then get blown up, or they do the smart thing and roll away.

 

[TwentyTwo]

Metaknight beats snake dude. Metaknight has no disadvantage versus anyone either.

Snake on the other hand, has annoyances like Falco, Dedede, and Olimar to deal with. In my opinion he wins those matchups, but it's much harder for Snake, and it's not that hard at all for Metaknight.

Even though I personally think, Snake has a slight advantage on MK 55:45 imo, that's got nothing to do with saying that MK is a whole league above Snake.

Haha the name is Yes! but it's all good. It's not a disadvantage per se...I just think the Snake has to play really smart to win, which is very possible. Diddy doesn't counter Metaknight; Ninjalink counters Mew2king.

Metaknight is at best even or slightly Metaknight favored imo.

I always thought matchup ratios were supposed to be about a character at the top of their game vs. another character at the top of their game, so wouldn't that mean NL and M2K being the best diddy and MK, mean that diddy does have the slight advantage?

 

[_Yes!_]

nah it means m2k sucks vs NL i'd have to ask him about it though. I think that it's slightly favored towards mk or even at best. No one flat out beats Metaknight.

 

[TwentyTwo]

nah it means m2k sucks vs NL i'd have to ask him about it though. I think that it's slightly favored towards mk or even at best. No one flat out beats Metaknight.

I mean, I'm not saying flat out beats either, but a slight advantage is what I'm saying. Something 55:45 at best like on Final Destination or something maybe 60:40. I can see what you're saying though, I don't think an average diddy would beat out an average MK either.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fv2IsRoZhs&feature=channel_page

how is snake not better?

EDIT: snake's been beating mk for a while now, hall beat dsf, ajax beat tkd, and ally... just watch the video, it ain't pretty

snake has the edge, people saying otherwise are lying to themselves

 

[strike42]

s tier= sexy tier

ss tier= super sexy tier

 

[itsthebigfoot]

SS = somewhat sexy tier

 

[IxxI]

nah.

10ftilts

 

[_Yes!_]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fv2IsRoZhs&feature=channel_page

how is snake not better?

EDIT: snake's been beating mk for a while now, hall beat dsf, ajax beat tkd, and ally... just watch the video, it ain't pretty

snake has the edge, people saying otherwise are lying to themselves

Snake's not better because he doesn't easily beat every character in the game like Metaknight does. Showing us a vid of Ally 3 stocking Diem isn't proof that Snake beats Metaknight because they're not of equal skill. I know diem personally, and his Metaknight plays differently than most. He tends to be overly aggressive and he has an honor code about the use of tornado, so he gets punished for it. Maybe when Ally and M2k play each other we can see who wins the matchup.

What do you mean lying to themselves? I play Snake. I would love for Snake to beat Metaknight, but he doesn't. I'll post my take on the matchup later if you like, but I gotta go shovel snow now lol...

Twentytwo, as far as Metaknight vs Diddy goes, even on FD, while Diddy loves that stage, it's a really big stage, so Metaknight lives much longer than usual and can do whatever Metaknight does to be the best character in the game. At best it's even :-/

 

[8AngeL8]

I'm one of the few players, I think, who still doesn't think Snake has any bad matchups. DDD, Olimar and Falco get thrown out there a lot as counters to him. DDD I think is even, DDD just isn't fast enough to keep up with a super campy Snake. Olimar can be hard, but is beaten by a patient Snake. Falco, lol. That's in Snake's favor pretty decently.

I also think he goes even with MK, neither has the advantage. Thus, I believe both MK and Snake belong together in S tier, with MK being number one and Snake being number two. Neither one has bad matchups, but MK has an easier time in some fights.

 

[Master Raven]

MK does not beat Snake. It's pretty much even.

 

[Black_Heretic]

SS = somewhat sexy tier

SS = super saiyan

 

[B.A.M.]

i love when ppl refuse to believe certain characters are counters, and their evidence to refute the claim of these characters being counters is, " well so and so is hard but it can be done, therefore this character is not a counter". like someone said olimar is hard for snake but snake can win it, therefore its in snakes favor. that doesnt make any sense whatsoever. if it is hard for snake, inversely it is easier for the said opponent which means yes that character is a counter.

 

[8AngeL8]

Try reading my post again. I said it can be hard, but gets beaten by playing patiently. That means it's hard if you play normally, but a change in playstyle puts it in Snake's favor. Pay attention next time, please.

 

[napZzz]

olimar is way too hard for snake. Try playing a good, campy, defensive olimar. GOOD GOD

 

[_Yes!_]

Syonryoken makes a good point.

In my opinion, however, if a character has something that works against another character, that character should abuse the technique that works to the fullest so that they can achieve the victory.

Examples:

1) Snake vs Olimar

In my experience versus blackwaltz, IMO the best olimar in the country, I have learned that Olimar doesn't have any or has few answers to Snake's vertical camping, which makes Battlefield to be an amazing stage versus Olimar. Ban FD and you're already in good shape.

2) Snake vs Olimar

Snake's dthrow is amazing against olimar, because as everyone may know, Olimar barely moves anywhere in his getup roll, making for a perfect tech chase opportunity. Shielding after dthrow cuts off all options for olimar to safely avoid extra damage after the dthrow.

Abusing such techniques can greatly turn the tides matchup ratios.

3) Snake vs Dedede

Snake can massively camp the crap out of Dedede...Abusing that will keep you from getting grabbed...Dedede's main advantage in that matchup.

The Metagame always changes, and we shouldn't consider matchups unless we assume they are being played at the highest level of skill.

 

[DeadX]

S tier = snake tier

 

[Soid]

MK doesnt beat Snake

 

[Taeran]

Diddy doesn't counter Metaknight; Ninjalink counters Mew2king.

Sigged, I can't get over that for some reason.

 

[Panix]

Mk beats Snake because of his ability to gimp snake so easly.

Snake losses to 3D and Falco because of chain grabs.

Snake loses to rob because he camps better.

Snake wins everybody else because he's snake.

right?

 

[8AngeL8]

Mk beats Snake because of his ability to gimp snake so easly.

Wrong. If you use proper explosive setups and space with tilts and grabs, you won't be getting gimped. There are countless ways for Snake to not get knocked off stage. MK has a super hard time getting through Snake's defenses and dies very quickly. Snake's advantage.

Snake losses to 3D and Falco because of chain grabs.

D3 is even because Snake is faster and can just run and camp. Falco's spike can be teched and shouldn't even be coming into play very much. You have far greater range and a multitude of explosives. Don't get grabbed.

Snake loses to rob because he camps better.

Even. Snake beats ROB up close and can use C4 and mines to limit ROB's options. Snake also does well when an opponent is above him, while ROB does terrible when he's above someone. Uthrow him and abuse your mortars and utilt.

Snake wins everybody else because he's snake.

right?

Right.

 

[gallax]

saying dont get grabbed by D3 is one of those harder said than done things. D3 has the advantage here.

 

[8AngeL8]

Just run and throw stuff at him. Even if you get grabbed a few times, you should be in control of most of the match.

If he's chaingrabbing you to the edge, DI down and toward the stage. You should fall and grab the ledge before he can gimp you.

 

[TwentyTwo]

saying dont get grabbed by D3 is one of those harder said than done things. D3 has the advantage here.

Just stage ban/strike properly, and camp vertically. If you get stuck on a stage with no platforms, which shouldn't be unless he counterpicked, then you run Angel's plan of attack.

 

[Cease Tick]

Even. Snake beats ROB up close and can use C4 and mines to limit ROB's options. Snake also does well when an opponent is above him, while ROB does terrible when he's above someone. Uthrow him and abuse your mortars and utilt.

Wrong. ROB outcamps Snake. You're forced to approach. Gyros kill mines and prevent DACUS. Lasers can blow up grenades in your hand. ROB can put a gyro in front of him to block ground approaches. Snake gets wrecked in the air. ROB can rack up damage quickly with fairs and uairs. ROB doesn't have that hard of a time gimping Snake. True, ftilts annoy ROB, and utilt/uthrow put him in a bad position, but Snake shouldn't be able to get close very often. Besides, Snake doesn't really like being above ROB, either. ROB should be living to at least 120 or 130 percent (he's heavy), and ROB should be killing Snake early with gimps. However, if ROB can't get the gimp, Snake can live to like, 200 percent.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

SS = somewhat sexy tier

SS= Sturmstaffel! MK is a nazi!

 

[Natch]

Falco needs to be put in snakes "S" tier because they are very close as characters. The things seperating them is falcos lack of a solid kill move

Which is why they're seperated. Falco doesn't have a solid kill move.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Sanke Flaco & Falcon should be put in the Sexy Tier. <_<

 

[8AngeL8]

Wrong. ROB outcamps Snake. You're forced to approach. Gyros kill mines and prevent DACUS. Lasers can blow up grenades in your hand. ROB can put a gyro in front of him to block ground approaches. Snake gets wrecked in the air. ROB can rack up damage quickly with fairs and uairs. ROB doesn't have that hard of a time gimping Snake. True, ftilts annoy ROB, and utilt/uthrow put him in a bad position, but Snake shouldn't be able to get close very often. Besides, Snake doesn't really like being above ROB, either. ROB should be living to at least 120 or 130 percent (he's heavy), and ROB should be killing Snake early with gimps. However, if ROB can't get the gimp, Snake can live to like, 200 percent.

Rob's camp is not that hard to get around, he has limited directions in which he can shoot things. Jump over them, power shield, dodge, etc. It's not super hard to approach him through it. If he leaves a gyro in front, get into a camp battle with him (which you shouldn't lose too badly if you're smart about it) and wait for it to stop spinning, then just pick it up and don't let him get it back.

 

[Cease Tick]

ROB still gimps Snake and has a much better air game.

 

[Panix]

ROB still gimps Snake and has a much better air game.

snake won't be in the air my friend, yes he gimps snake because of his awsome fair, but snake's like allys won't like that happen, rather then getting smacked in the face when trying to come up from underneath someone, a smart snake would c4 recover to get high in the air where rob can't do much. Also, Snakes ground game >>>>>>>>>> Rob's