Sakurai Balancing

[sunshinesan]

I've read somewhere that Sakurai takes all modes and levels of play into account when balancing the game (If this wasn't actually mentioned, it is very easy to assume Sakurai does indeed balance this way, due to his design philosophy)
Ignoring the fact that he doesn't know anything about balancing (Metaknight, giving more lag to moves like egg roll and making it useless, he seems to be trapped in a mindset that slower characters have to be garbage despite many ways to remedy them as taught by Project M, etc.), the premise of balancing for all modes and for all play levels itself is absurd. Balancing 1v1 is already difficult as it is with the number of characters that we will get in the finished product, but throwing things like FFA into the mix, and you'll have nothing but a mess and a headache as the end product. Not to mention "balancing" FFA makes zero sense in the first place. This type of thinking can give you a legitimate reason to nerf such atrocities as Kirby's down B by giving it more lag or making it activate slower because it might be too broken in a FFA or low level play environment.

I think this is the prime culprit for the broken balance in Melee and Brawl, the very weird, nonsensical and delusional idea that you can balance anything with those motivations.

 

[LancerStaff]

I've read somewhere that Sakurai takes all modes and levels of play into account when balancing the game (If this wasn't actually mentioned, it is very easy to assume Sakurai does indeed balance this way, due to his design philosophy)
Ignoring the fact that he doesn't know anything about balancing (Metaknight, giving more lag to moves like egg roll and making it useless, he seems to be trapped in a mindset that slower characters have to be garbage despite many ways to remedy them as taught by Project M, etc.), the premise of balancing for all modes and for all play levels itself is absurd. Balancing 1v1 is already difficult as it is with the number of characters that we will get in the finished product, but throwing things like FFA into the mix, and you'll have nothing but a mess and a headache as the end product. Not to mention "balancing" FFA makes zero sense in the first place. This type of thinking can give you a legitimate reason to nerf such atrocities as Kirby's down B by giving it more lag or making it activate slower because it might be too broken in a FFA or low level play environment.

I think this is the prime culprit for the broken balance in Melee and Brawl, the very weird, nonsensical and delusional idea that you can balance anything with those motivations.

The way I see it, if you do a good enough job with one, the other won't be far behind. Even FFA matches were horribly balanced in the old games, but that's partly because they simply never put much effort into it.

 

[ToothiestAura]

You can't balance this game period. All you can do is make the playing field more equal.

 

[Canuckduck]

You can't balance this game period. All you can do is make the playing field more equal.

Agreed. It's impossible to make ANY game perfectly balanced, and especially hard to make Super Smash Bros. balanced.

 

[Senario]

Sakurai balancing. "Does it promote competitive play? Take it out". "Lets balance some chars around Free for all four player with items and some around 1v1".

Him in a nutshell. I don't agree with Sakurai, but I do see Nintendo themselves being the one who is outreaching to the competitive scene. They clearly understand that it isn't a bad thing to have a competitive scene. They have one for pokemon even though the rules aren't quite there yet.

 

[Canuckduck]

Sakurai balancing. "Does it promote competitive play? Take it out". "Lets balance some chars around Free for all four player with items and some around 1v1".

Him in a nutshell. I don't agree with Sakurai, but I do see Nintendo themselves being the one who is outreaching to the competitive scene. They clearly understand that it isn't a bad thing to have a competitive scene. They have one for pokemon even though the rules aren't quite there yet.

I know that Sakurai has stated before that he doesn't view Smash as a competitive game, and that he prefers it being simply a "casual" one.

 

[kisamefishfries]

Idk why, but I feel you're more or less complaining about it rather than discussing it. Nintendo is trying to get more into the competitive scene as shown through the tournament. With that in mind, and given the fact that there will be a balancing team this time around hopefully there will be more balance. However, I have literally never played any game with a plethora of characters where thought all were competitive. Some are so down right bad all you can do is think what the hell.

All this in mind, I expect patch updates surrounding balance issues. But to what extent I don't know.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Not to mention that whether or not Sakurai "knows anything about balancing" is somewhat irrelevant since he's the guy behind a multi-billion dollar franchise that is widely critically acclaimed and got 200,000 people to sit down and watch together on Tuesday. I'd say he's doing okay regardless.

It's also pretty clear Sakurai does CARE about balancing. Remember that when Brawl came out most peope thought Meta Knight was good, but not great. No one saw the truth coming. He got the game balanced to the best of his ability based on how he designed the game. He had no way to know that fans would find ways to abuse the physics engine and render some character monstrously better than others.

Also, see party game comment.

 

[nessokman]

This is the kind of thread that turns into a brawl VS. Melee thread.

 

[Luigi#1]

I really don't want this thread to exist. Please.

Watch me get a warning.

 

[Neerb]

He had no way to know that fans would find ways to abuse the physics engine and render some character monstrously better than others.

This right here. This is why the game will never be balanced. The competitive scene doesn't follow the rules, the make up their
there own. Half the "advanced" techniques are just exploits, sometimes even design errors. Also, Sakurai balances the game based on 4FFA items? Good, that's the way the game is intended to be played.

The competetive scene will ALWAYS be in the minority, and it's for the good of the wider audience that Sakurai balance as such. Also, Sakurai has a much bigger team working on it now (he literally did it himself in everyone's precious Melee), so it's fairly preemptive to say it won't work out.

 

[Inawordyes]

Sakurai said during the Roundtable on Tuesday that he had a 4-man team that helped with balancing in Brawl compared to basically just himself in 64 and Melee, but biases on the part of the balancers led to the slightly-wonky balance we had, so there's 12 people helping out this time, to provide a greater chance for more balanced gameplay, though obviously nothing will ever be perfect.

But I can agree with nessok that this thread, though created with good intentions, will be found by people who are less levelheaded and has the potential to become something it was never meant to be.

 

[Hong]

Regardless of game, I always felt it was safer to balance around 1v1. With 1v1, for the most part you know what you are going to get at a wide enough scope, stages included. In FFA with items on, the game becomes so immensely variable... even if a character is theoretically a bit better in FFAs, they have a much higher probably of losing based on teaming up or item spawns. Mathematically I am sure over hundreds of thousands of matches between equally highly skilled players, but that is immensely volatile in of itself since he's trying to do a catch-all for all skill levels.

Balancing a game on its own is hard enough, and this approach is probably trying to accomplish something even harder.

This is the kind of thread that turns into a brawl VS. Melee thread.

I really don't want this thread to exist. Please.

Watch me get a warning.

Is that so? I think there have been some insightful posts thus far. Do you have any thoughts on the topic?

 

[Morbi]

I feel as though this is a case of quality versus quantity; one cannot reasonably hope to balance every aspect of the game. As @ Hong asserted, balancing free for all is not extremely plausible as there are far too many dependent variables that must be taken into consideration. Not only that, but character choices influence alterations in balance at even the most simple of alterations (such as turning on the Smash Ball). If you balance for one versus one matches, you are most efficiently balancing each character against another. Whereas in free for all, you are balancing one character against two characters or one character against a character and an item. It is not very feasible to approach balance this way. I guarantee that if the game was balanced for one versus one that the game would become more inherently balanced, even for free for all. You cannot take into account all of the variables any other way. First balance the characters, next balance the items, after that balance the stages. There might be a discrepancy here or there; however, balancing for every single situation only results in an attenuated effort on EVERY front. So every aspect of the game is partially balances as opposed to one of the most important (character versus characters). Not only that, but free for all is predominately explored in a party mentality as it is. So they are not ideally seeking a balanced game as much as they are desiring a fun experience. Most that play one versus one ARE expecting a balanced experience. So in the case of free for all, items are more important to balance than characters (most of the time) as character balance translates to each mode.

Lastly, Sakurai should not balance ANYTHING himself. Unless he can drastically alter his play-style in a dozen different ways for each character MU.

 

[sunshinesan]

I came off as very aggressive and I apologize. I just wanted to state the topic at hand and voice my opinion on the matter at the same time, and it turned out more like a rant than introducing a topic that can foster discussion. I'm just frustrated because balance was never even considered to be important to the team, and now that they claim to have some care for it, things doesn't seem to be changing, and I'm just frustrated.

This is the top comment on the VGBootCamp Air Dodge Lag video on Youtube.

I honestly don't get it. The biggest culprits behind overly-defensive play in Brawl were safe rolls + spot-dodges. From the reports I've heard, rolls are still ridiculous and spotdodges are still strong.

Many Brawl players would expend their double jump instead of airdodging early due to the (average) 20-frame cooldown. Airdodging near the ground was useful, but for offensive purposes as well as defensive ones (i.e., SHAD approaches).

It's odd that they nerfed the one offensively-viable aspect of the Brawl airdodge, while leaving other stronger defensive maneuvers intact. It suggests to me that the balancing team still doesn't understand what they're doing.

EDIT: I forgot to mention shield stun. Perhaps it has increased, but from what I've heard shielding is still fairly strong. Possibly moreso now that grab follow-ups have been nerfed as well. Yet another instance of the dev. team not understanding how variables affect each other.

I thought it was interesting, though I didn't play Brawl competitively, so I can't really dissect it much, but it is relavant.

 

[Luigi#1]

Regardless of game, I always felt it was safer to balance around 1v1. With 1v1, for the most part you know what you are going to get at a wide enough scope, stages included. In FFA with items on, the game becomes so immensely variable... even if a character is theoretically a bit better in FFAs, they have a much higher probably of losing based on teaming up or item spawns. Mathematically I am sure over hundreds of thousands of matches between equally highly skilled players, but that is immensely volatile in of itself since he's trying to do a catch-all for all skill levels.

Balancing a game on its own is hard enough, and this approach is probably trying to accomplish something even harder.

Is that so? I think there have been some insightful posts thus far. Do you have any thoughts on the topic?

Why yes. Yes I do. The fact that somebody is once again complaining that the game isn't competitive enough, and saying the guy who is making the game is delusional even though he's trying his best to make this game with injuries and trying to balance it well is annoying to me. I think this was a rather unnecessary topic, and should instead belong in the unpopular opinions thread, were arguments are prohibited so no flamming starts.
EDIT: I see the post above me now, and I also apologize. I also came off as rude and attacked a fellow Smasher for having an opinion. I highly recommend putting this in the unpopular opinions thread so people like me don't attack you.

 

[HeroMystic]

Regardless of game, I always felt it was safer to balance around 1v1. With 1v1, for the most part you know what you are going to get at a wide enough scope, stages included. In FFA with items on, the game becomes so immensely variable... even if a character is theoretically a bit better in FFAs, they have a much higher probably of losing based on teaming up or item spawns. Mathematically I am sure over hundreds of thousands of matches between equally highly skilled players, but that is immensely volatile in of itself since he's trying to do a catch-all for all skill levels.

Balancing a game on its own is hard enough, and this approach is probably trying to accomplish something even harder.

This right here is the main reason why I don't understand Sakurai's philosophy. What is he trying to accomplish in terms of balance? He has openly stated he balanced some characters (or was it all characters? Can't remember) to be better suited for FFA's. Why? I ask this genuinely because it seems the balance doesn't match up in practice. Smash Balls are still overpowered and item spawn points are luck-based. Even if you don't apply items into the mix, most Special attacks are far more suited for 1v1.

If he wanted to balance on based on FFA, shouldn't everyone have some sort of Area Attack, or be much more durable? This obviously isn't the case. If he truly is balancing based off that, I would say he's done a pretty terrible job. While for 1v1, there seems to be at least something resembling balance.

 

[sunshinesan]

Not to mention that whether or not Sakurai "knows anything about balancing" is somewhat irrelevant since he's the guy behind a multi-billion dollar franchise that is widely critically acclaimed and got 200,000 people to sit down and watch together on Tuesday. I'd say he's doing okay regardless.

It is relevant to this topic and important to all competitive players. What is irrelevant is that the game will sell millions and will be popular. If we just use that as an excuse to end all discourse about making a difference in the community and perhaps altering the next game of a series that we love for the better, than we might as well all just stop talking and accept whatever Sakurai will throw at us.

But you're right. In the grand scheme of things, balance is irrelevant. For a party game with the only right way to play being FFA, balance is not even remotely important, while for a competitive 1v1 fighting game, most can argue that it is everything. This makes Sakurai wanting to balance under his philosophy even more confusing.

 

[LancerStaff]

Here's the thing: Sakurai HAS to balance the game with FFAs and casuals in mind. Ike is 'OP' and people already believe Mac is too. Buff Ike for 1v1s, break the game for casuals. They don't want to play a broken game either.

 

[menotyou135]

None of the smashes have been balanced (though brawl was worse than the other two).

I don't expect this game to be perfectly balanced. I will be happy if all the characters are possible to use and none are as bad as MK.

My ideal would be every character being S tier and perfectly balanced so that they are all able to win major events.

My realistic hopes is this:
10-12 characters that are able to win events commonly and compete at a top level consistently without gimmicks (think the tier with marth/shiek/flaco/fox but with 10 characters rather than 4).

10-12 characters that would be what melee considered A tier (Peach/Jiggs/C.falcon/Ice Climbers)

All other characters being essentially B tier except the inevitable few who are completely useless.

I doubt this game will be that balanced considering how hard it is to make a perfectly balanced game like this that has such variety of ability's and moves. Even if the SSB team were completely competitive focused (which they aren't), achieving this level of balance would be difficult.

 

[DakotaBonez]

Well, for 1 vs 1 Final Destination, a character with projectiles and speed has the advantage.
Its different on a stage with platforms like battlefield, where suddenly a decent jump becomes useful.
For 1 vs 1 (Insert Stage with Walk Off Edges), Characters with poor air games suddenly don't have to worry about falling off and can wreck sh$# up. (see Little Mac).

Sakurai set out to have characters specialize in their own niche. Characters like Pikachu, who are small and have strong attacks that cover all sides excel in free for alls.
Characters with reflectors like Mario's cape have an advantage when items are put into play.

The point is, he's balancing it all wrong XD.
But he's given Bowser and Little Mac super armor (can't flinch when attacked) when they're executing slow but powerful attacks and other things seem to be giving the heavies a fighting chance.

 

[MrPanic]

Smash is a game that can be played in an array of ways. 1v1, FFA, teams, items on or off, stock or time, types of stages, etc.. To ensure that the game is fun in all these variations, the dev team must strife to balance all characters out considering all the gamemodes. There is simply no other way around it, if you wanna make the game play good for all these types of modes, they should all be considered while balancing. Regardless of if the balancing is done good or not, going in with a mindset of balancing with only one variation of play is wrong by design. That way you'll create a game that really only is fun to play in that one specific setup, making the balance broken for any other variation of play, causing all those other modes to be less fun or more annoying that the main one. This isn't streetfighter where you basically only have one mode of play and can basically balance everything about that, the whole point of smash bros is that you have all these modes to play and if you don't try to balance around all those modes, there is no point in having those modes there in the first place.

Some people still live in that bubble that smash is only that 1v1 game that only exist for competitive play. It's not, deal with it. Some people think that you could balance the whole game by just considering one particular situation. That's not someone in a bubble, that's someone who's drowning in a pool of idiocracy, stay out of game design forever kid.

 

[Hong]

Honestly?

I like the approach where everyone is overpowered. I think every character should have a quality that is super desirable, and too-good-to-be-true.

Marth in Melee is a good example.
Character has a long sword. The long sword deals immense damage at maximum range. The character also has very fast, graceful swordplay. If that is not enough, he also had grab options to control enemies if they were too close to fully capitalize on his optimal distance.

Captain Falcon as well, Melee specifically
Very fast, very strong character. Many of his attacks are actually slow, but he can use his immense speed to instigate fear and seize openings. Like Marth, has some fast options to help setup for his slower, stronger attacks.

All characters should have a defining best-case-scenario, and tools to enable it. You should be able to live the fantasy at even the highest levels of skill. At the very least, all characters should have accessible and realistic kill moves. Pit's new Upperdash Arm and Samus's retooled Screw Attack are fine examples. Pit in particular because he has always been good at wearing the enemy down, and Project M aside, just had limited kill options in Brawl.

SSB64 is my favourite entry in the series. Sure we have a clear tier list, but every character has 0%->death combos, so you always have reasons to be afraid. Of course someone like Pikachu or Fox have a way easier time setting it up than Ness, but I would still say this is a better state than some of the characters in Melee or Brawl. Really, only Samus feels particularly underwhelming in that game... and this is coming from a Link main.

 

[RODO]

Characters have attacks that are made for scenarios other than 1v1's and those attacks need to be balanced too. I do agree that most balancing should be done in a 1v1 setting though.

 

[LancerStaff]

Honestly, we already have multiple big balance issues out of the way already. Chaingrabs are as good as dead, and I imagine they'll just disallow Nana to grab or something to prevent anything like Brawl's. Projectiles have been nerfed across the board. Pit's bow is laggy, Fox can't SH laser without lagging when landing, and even Megaman's charge shot is stopped with a simple jab. We've even seen top characters like Marth, Pit and Fox (the later two are considered to be better in Japan) getting rebalanced. Yes, Bowser is still looking poor, but I imagine the next months will be further fine-tuning.

 

[Lanog20]

Does Sakurai know anything about balancing?


Have you ever made a game?

 

[LancerStaff]

Does Sakurai know anything about balancing?


Have you ever made a game?

KIU is shockingly well balanced considering there's more then one-hundred weapons. No MKs in the main 3v3 team battle mode. FFA and 1v1 less so, but 1v1s weren't even considered and it's just powers and giant stages that need bans.

 

[Hong]

Honestly, we already have multiple big balance issues out of the way already. Chaingrabs are as good as dead, and I imagine they'll just disallow Nana to grab or something to prevent anything like Brawl's. Projectiles have been nerfed across the board. Pit's bow is laggy, Fox can't SH laser without lagging when landing, and even Megaman's charge shot is stopped with a simple jab. We've even seen top characters like Marth, Pit and Fox (the later two are considered to be better in Japan) getting rebalanced. Yes, Bowser is still looking poor, but I imagine the next months will be further fine-tuning.

I agree with everything, except the projectiles part.

Link's projectiles are the closest they have ever been to Japan's SSB64. In fact, I would say they are greater or equal in terms of launch, but since everyone is so floaty and recovery is generous, it doesn't condemn your recovery.

Samus is a mixed bag. Missiles were nerfed HARD from Melee to Brawl, and while they are not back to Melee strength, they are still better than Brawls by at least repelling the enemy away instead of sending them straight upwards to help their approach. Charge Shot is decent enough, as well.

In games mechanics are a mixed bag. Better rolls, but worse airdodges and spot dodges. Since hitlag and hitstun are both prominent in this version, projectile users are in a better spot than they were in Brawl since of course projectile collision doesn't have to factor hitlag into the equation. It's a game where it's hard to follow an opponent on hit, but you can still create distance as well as ever.

Two characters in Brawl had particularly strong projectiles, bananas aside. Snake and Falco. Of the two, we'll have to see if they return, and how they fare if they do. I would say projectiles have been tuned up on a case-by-case basis more than a nerf, which would explain why Link would be buffed. A lot of the newcomers seems to have been given some IMO fair tools to deal with them so I welcome the design choice myself.

Purely speculation, of course.

 

[LancerStaff]

I agree with everything, except the projectiles part.

Link's projectiles are the closest they have ever been to Japan's SSB64. In fact, I would say they are greater or equal in terms of launch, but since everyone is so floaty and recovery is generous, it doesn't condemn your recovery.

Samus is a mixed bag. Missiles were nerfed HARD from Melee to Brawl, and while they are not back to Melee strength, they are still better than Brawls by at least repelling the enemy away instead of sending them straight upwards to help their approach. Charge Shot is decent enough, as well.

In games mechanics are a mixed bag. Better rolls, but worse airdodges and spot dodges. Since hitlag and hitstun are both prominent in this version, projectile users are in a better spot than they were in Brawl since of course projectile collision doesn't have to factor hitlag into the equation. It's a game where it's hard to follow an opponent on hit, but you can still create distance as well as ever.

Two characters in Brawl had particularly strong projectiles, bananas aside. Snake and Falco. Of the two, we'll have to see if they return, and how they fare if they do. I would say projectiles have been tuned up on a case-by-case basis more than a nerf, which would explain why Link would be buffed. A lot of the newcomers seems to have been given some IMO fair tools to deal with them so I welcome the design choice myself.

Purely speculation, of course.

Well, the best ones were nerfed. Link is kinda useless without the projectiles. Falco probably can't SHDL anymore going by Fox's change. And the hitstun and knockback scaling look incomplete. I just saw a topic on it, I'll edit it in here in a second. Here it is.
http://smashboards.com/threads/for-...eryone-flies-so-far-after-getting-hit.358253/
Whatever is going on, it looks completely wrong.

 

[staindgrey]

I think the problems with balancing stem less from the various modes being referenced and more from the intentions of said balancing. It seems as though Sakurai's intent on neutering every method of comboing to ensure that no character is capable of stringing legitimate combos together. This is helpful for the casual scene, but it makes competitive matches less exciting to watch. It's part of what made Brawl so... bland.

I'm not a Melee purist by any means, but fighting games are far more intriguing when there's a possibility of mastering/witnessing something really special and difficult, rather than a slower paced patty-cake version of trading moves back and forth. But Sakurai and his developers don't seem interested in allowing that to happen. That's the conflict between the competitive Smash scene and the ones making the game.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

People need to understand that our competitive form of playing... is, and always will be, the vast minority. If Sakurai went ahead and catered to us the way some of you expect him to, it would break the game for the majority of its players. This is why he balances the game with items and 4 player matches in mind. That's the way the games have been planned to be played. The fact of the matter is that the smash games have NEVER been balanced, not even SSBM.

 

[LancerStaff]

People need to understand that our competitive form of playing... is, and always will be, the vast minority. If Sakurai went ahead and catered to us the way some of you expect him to, it would break the game for the majority of its players. This is why he balances the game with items and 4 player matches in mind. That's the way the games have been planned to be played. The fact of the matter is that the smash games have NEVER been balanced, not even SSBM.

I've been saying this for so long now... And finally, people are catching on.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

I've been saying this for so long now... And finally, people are catching on.

Exactly. I know it's disheartening for us, but Sakurai is playing it smart and making the better decisions.

 

[staindgrey]

The fact of the matter is that the smash games have NEVER been balanced, not even SSBM.

I think everyone knows that. Melee was dominated by a handful of characters. What made Melee the crown jewel in the competitive scene's eyes was that it became a fast-paced, complex and exciting fighting game by accident. In comparison, Brawl was slow, uncomplicated and boring to watch. "Balance" wasn't necessarily the issue. (Though Metaknight's sheer dominance didn't help.)

I still enjoyed Brawl quite a bit, but as you implied, it was fine-tuned as a party game first and foremost. It didn't translate well to the scene that Melee had created. Most people visiting this forum, I'd wager, are hoping to get closer to that scene than Brawl had been.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

I think everyone knows that. Melee was dominated by a handful of characters. What made Melee the crown jewel in the competitive scene's eyes was that it became a fast-paced, complex and exciting fighting game by accident. In comparison, Brawl was slow, uncomplicated and boring to watch. "Balance" wasn't necessarily the issue. (Though Metaknight's sheer dominance didn't help.)

I still enjoyed Brawl quite a bit, but as you implied, it was fine-tuned as a party game first and foremost. It didn't translate well to the scene that Melee had created. Most people visiting this forum, I'd wager, are hoping to get closer to that scene than Brawl had been.

If they all know that, they certainly aren't like it. Also, my point wasn't to compare the two, it was to show that he has never actually made a smash game specifically for us. Melee was just a happy accident as you have said earlier. We will never be the majority, so I don't see why people get so enraged when we aren't catered to over the casual crowd.

 

[ChillySundance]

Sakurai's idea of balance is "A highly skilled player will not always win against a novice."

This is a good balancing principle for a party game, where the aim is for everybody to have fun and goof around, but not for a competitive fighter.

Considering that his idea of a strong character is Samus and Ganondorf, I'd say that Sakurai is balancing the game with trades and single hit KO power in mind over combos or setups. And this makes sense if you consider that the average casual player sees big numbers as a sign of power.

A very casual player with little experience in the game will run headfirst into Ike's forward smash and be koed at 60%. Their immediate reaction is usually going to be something along the lines of "Ike is so overpowered! He does so much damage!" They won't be considering all of their options for avoiding that attack or how slow it is at this stage of their development - that's usually something people start figuring out when they're more experienced.

I think this is why he thought Samus was a strong character. Because she has a powerful ranged attack that deals a lot of damage and can KO people unexpectedly in 4vs4's, and also why he values characters with strong single hits like Ganondorf.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

Sakurai's idea of balance is "A highly skilled player will not always win against a novice."

This is a good balancing principle for a party game, where the aim is for everybody to have fun and goof around, but not for a competitive fighter.

Considering that his idea of a strong character is Samus and Ganondorf, I'd say that Sakurai is balancing the game with trades and single hit KO power in mind over combos or setups. And this makes sense if you consider that the average casual player sees big numbers as a sign of power.

A very casual player with little experience in the game will run headfirst into Ike's forward smash and be koed at 60%. Their immediate reaction is usually going to be something along the lines of "Ike is so overpowered! He does so much damage!" They won't be considering all of their options for avoiding that attack or how slow it is at this stage of their development - that's usually something people start figuring out when they're more experienced.

I think this is why he thought Samus was a strong character. Because she has a powerful ranged attack that deals a lot of damage and can KO people unexpectedly in 4vs4's, and also why he values characters with strong single hits like Ganondorf.

Exactly. If Sakurai started viewing this as a competitive fighting game, rather than a party game, we would start getting the kind of balance we crave. Until that happens though, we can't really call foul on his methods because he's balancing the game the way he envisions it being played. We're the ones choosing to play the game in a different light.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Well, I know he doesn't balance the game around 1vs1. But he does give some characters advantage in 1vs1 encounters. I just hope this never leads to "This character is very weak in 1vs1, but that its fine because he is too strong in 4-player".
At least I enjoy both modes if that is the case.

 

[PKBeam]

I heard someone say that it was impossible to make any game balanced.

NO ITEMS
FOX ONLY
...
...
...
temple

 

[Smash G]

I just want patch balancing.