Sakurai had decided on all the characeters who would be in the game by July 7th, 2005

[Darkslash]

So bassicly Sakurai thought of the Characters in 2005,designed the characters in 2006 added sonic in 2007 and are finishing it up. wow

 

[SmashFi3nd]

I am actually planning on designing Smash 4.... on paper. This project will take me a year or two to complete, so I need to draft up my roster ASAP. I have already decided on most of the characters in the roster, and even the number (around 50-55). People who know my work know how much I go into detail. I am planning on crafting movesets for all the newcomers I have planned as well as very detailed reasoning for their spot on the roster, as well as a list of new Assist Trophies (with descriptions), Pokemon (with descriptions), a list of music tracks, a list of trophies,a detailed descriptions of the new stages, new gamemodes, new gameplay mechanics, as well as plot to the game's adventure mode. It is my most ambitious project yet, and I hope you all enjoy it when it sees completion.

I really want to make a topic that relays my progess on this project. There will be a lot of text when it is done (well over 100 hundred pages on a typing program with a size 12 text, perhaps going to 200). However, I don't want to be marked for being off-topic, so would it be okay to post such a topic here (in regards to the progress of it)? I am trying to be as fair as possible in regards to roster representation, and although I won't be able to please everyone, I will do my absolute best to make as many people as possible happy.

That would be awesome imo. Good luck...you're going to need it!

 

[Pyr0]

To all who are saying random **** about Lucario not existing at that time.

Lucario was the second 4rth gen pokemon designed (first was Munchlax) and he existed years before Diamond and Pearl (He even appears in the intro of a previous season of the anime)

 

[Roy-Master Lord]

I am actually planning on designing Smash 4.... on paper. This project will take me a year or two to complete, so I need to draft up my roster ASAP. I have already decided on most of the characters in the roster, and even the number (around 50-55). People who know my work know how much I go into detail. I am planning on crafting movesets for all the newcomers I have planned as well as very detailed reasoning for their spot on the roster, as well as a list of new Assist Trophies (with descriptions), Pokemon (with descriptions), a list of music tracks, a list of trophies,a detailed descriptions of the new stages, new gamemodes, new gameplay mechanics, as well as plot to the game's adventure mode. It is my most ambitious project yet, and I hope you all enjoy it when it sees completion.

I really want to make a topic that relays my progess on this project. There will be a lot of text when it is done (well over 100 hundred pages on a typing program with a size 12 text, perhaps going to 200). However, I don't want to be marked for being off-topic, so would it be okay to post such a topic here (in regards to the progress of it)? I am trying to be as fair as possible in regards to roster representation, and although I won't be able to please everyone, I will do my absolute best to make as many people as possible happy.

That will be simply amazing, I hope you accomplish your desired results.

 

[Krell]

This would be a real kick in the ****, considering Sakurai's poll. Wouldn't be a surprise, though. Sakurai is a guy who sticks to his guns.

 

[RayaGRH]

I think a cool Assist Trophy would be Team Dark from Sonic. Eggman, Shadow and Rouge could all turn up at once and wreck havoc.

 

[Darkslash]

I think a cool Assist Trophy would be Team Dark from Sonic. Eggman, Shadow and Rouge could all turn up at once and wreck havoc.

Well all the Assist trophys are already revealed. Shadow is one and he does chaos control. It's the same as the stop watch + the black fur hedgehog in the middle of the screen

 

[ChronoBound]

I just sent a PM to Samurai Panda as to whether I can make a blog on the progress of my vision for Smash 4 here on the General Discussion board. The amount of detail put into it will be insane to say the least.

 

[WaffleGuyPerson]

To all who are saying random **** about Lucario not existing at that time.

Lucario was the second 4rth gen pokemon designed (first was Munchlax) and he existed years before Diamond and Pearl (He even appears in the intro of a previous season of the anime)

I wouldn't go so far as to say "years". I'm pretty sure he was unveiled around late'04-'05. It just seems odd that he would decide to include him at that time. In fact, the only thing we knew was that 'Rukario' was a Steel/Fighting type. I'm guessing he went ahead and asked Taijiri who he wanted in Brawl.

 

[RedMage8BT]

No, it was Munchlax, then Bonsly, then Lucario (then Dialga and Palkia, I think)

 

[Yukiwarashi]

First it was Munchlax.

Then Weavile, Mime Jr, Bonsly and Lucario kind of came at the same time.

Then it was Manaphy, Buizel, Mantyke...well yeah, you get the idea.

 

[RedMage8BT]

I like how Sakurai kind of just pwned all of our "requests", with the exception of Sonic.

 

[Blaaaat]

OH MY GAWD HE PUT LUCARIO IN MORE THEN A YEAR BEFORE DIAMOND AND PEARL CAME OUT IN JAPAN!!!

l

NOT UNTIL LATER!!!! ZOMG SHOCKING

l

Release date of Lucario Pokémon movie: 2005-07-16

 

[Chepe]

I sincerely doubt this. There are characters like Lucario and Wolf who seem like later adds.

Lucario because he wouldnt have been added so early, at the time when Lucario was barely even heard of by anyone and didnt even have a typing for crying out loud! Im sure that Mewtwo's evidence of being in the game very late in development proves that Mewtwo was the one planned that early and then got dropped for some reason. Lucario may or may not have had a hand in that.

Wolf is either the last or second to last character added. Hints of that are his placement in a VS Roster event mode, being the final unlockable most of the time, and his moveset derivative of Fox's...

 

[Vortok]

It's just about impossable that he desided the characters that soon. Maybe around 2006 or so but not 2005. If that's the fact, then explain how Lucario got in at 2005 when D/P was released around 2006 in Japan and 2007 in the US, or maybe Sonic, the reason for the delay?

Smash is produced by Nintendo.

Pokemon is produced by Nintendo.

Connect the dots. It's not hard.


Personally, I don't really care if all the characters were decided way back then, or if some were decided a bit later. The game and character roster are what they are. Anybody with an ounce of logic knows that all the character threads were basically outlets for people to express their excitement/hyped up feelings about the game prior to release and that in no way would any of it have an actual impact on the production of the game.

 

[Big-Cat]

Why did he choose the characters back then? I can see a first draft of the roster being done back then, but this is ridiculous. He only looked at the characters from the Melee poll and added them in. With the exception of Sonic, the entire Brawl poll was essentially pointless regarding to being on the roster.

Sakurai fooled each and everyone of us. He was being extremely vague regarding us wanting characters in Brawl. He never specified if that meant as a character, trophy, assist trophy, or sticker.

 

[Fatmanonice]

He had 2-ish years to think up unique final smashes for the space animals (he had the final smash idea from the beggining, from SMASH 64!!) and got nothin?

He gave Mario his pitiful squirt gun but denied Luigi his character-strengthening vacuum?

And worst of all, Ganondorf still shares more than half a dozen moves with someone from a completely different series. I think Falco got more unique moves to seperate from Fox than G-Dork did.

With all the talent he tapped, it's really kinda sad there's not more distinctiveness.

Agreed and this apparent announcement supports my theory that a freakishly large percentage of the playable characters were those that did well in the Melee poll or left on the cutting room floor. (ie; everyone except Ike, Lucario, and ROB)

 

[Kye L]

because all the characters that people speculated getting in the game never even had the slightest bit of a chance

Except for all the characters that are in the game. >_>

 

[Big-Cat]

Agreed and this apparent announcement supports my theory that a freakishly large percentage of the playable characters were those that did well in the Melee poll or left on the cutting room floor. (ie; everyone except Ike, Lucario, and ROB)

You forgot Olimar and Lucas. Then again, Olimar didn't make it last time because he was too recent and Lucas has been planned since at least Melee. This also explains why Ike was not in his Radiant Dawn look, it didn't exist back then.

 

[Ca$hoholic]

Its not weird... i mean, who didnt findon new characters right after melee? everybody went like "diddy kong should be in, meta kniht, Wario. so he missed to put them in melee, so ofcourse he started making characters back then. and Lucario is the first besides Munchlax and Bonsly to be confirmed (and i guess we all can see bonsly fight cant we?)

 

[Fatmanonice]

You forgot Olimar and Lucas. Then again, Olimar didn't make it last time because he was too recent and Lucas has been planned since at least Melee. This also explains why Ike was not in his Radiant Dawn look, it didn't exist back then.

Like you said, Sakurai knew of Lucas and had originally planned to replace Ness with him in Melee. You're right about the Olimar account too. Really, I'm severally disappointed by this announcement but there is some good news in this... the characters we wanted in Brawl will more then likely be playable in SSB4. *sigh*

 

[Big-Cat]

Like you said, Sakurai knew of Lucas and had originally planned to replace Ness with him in Melee. You're right about the Olimar account too. Really, I'm severally disappointed by this announcement but there is some good news in this... the characters we wanted in Brawl will more then likely be playable in SSB4. *sigh*

That is true. The problem with this is that he essentially ignored the fans' currect pleas instead of the obsolete Melee requests. Now, it may be possible that the requests won't change much in SSB4 or Sakurai/whoever runs SSB4 will look at it more.

 

[Fatmanonice]

That is true. The problem with this is that he essentially ignored the fans' currect pleas instead of the obsolete Melee requests. Now, it may be possible that the requests won't change much in SSB4 or Sakurai/whoever runs SSB4 will look at it more.

It really depends on how big of a deal people will make of this. For example, there's really been an uproar about Megaman's absence and Krystal being a mere cameo that's spread across quite a few major forums.

 

[FlipTroopa]

What was really misleading was that a lot of the new characters we were seeing were off the new Brawl poll, but were also present on the Melee poll. Dedede, Diddy, Meta Knight, etc. were all Melee requested characters. The only Brawl requested that were not on the Melee poll were Ike, Olimar, and Lucas. And, even then, Olimar was revealed at the same time as Melee and Lucas was planned for Melee anyways. So, in reality, the only NEW characters we got that were not possible in Melee were Ike and Lucario. ...wonderful.

NOTE: (I don't include Toon Link, because he's just Young Link in a new skin).

So that being known, I guess the remaining Brawl characters will be in SSB4? Wrong. A majority of the Brawl characters that were not playable became Assists, and a few only stickers. I would venture a guess that only the ones who became Assists have a shot at being playable in the next installment if only because the team bothered to render models and attempt to work with them. Sakurai's logic was that Assists were characters that were not capable of fighting, but when you look at characters like Lyn, Goroh, Mac, etc. you can see that this was not the case for all inclusions. As far as stickers, I consider those the ultimate SMASH-SNUB because Sukapon and Takamaru, for example, ONLY appear as stickers and nothing else (as a matter of fact, trophies for non-represented series are severely lacking this time around because they all became stickers). I think the reasoning for that is because the team never deemed them interesting enough to bother modeling, or at least worth their time. Both characters have musical tracks in the game, but music does not equal character as Mach Rider so boldly taught us.

Frankly, SSB4 is a long ways off and for all we know there could be some amazing new Pokemon, series, or whatever that needs to be in the game before anybody else. I can totally envision the axe being given to quite a few Brawl characters just as well, and therefore the team would have to find replacements (I can see Pokemon Trainer getting replaced with some other character next time around, for example). And that sort of thing takes precedent over new, fresh faces. If you think about it, yes, Brawl added a slew of new fighters. But in the department of new franchises or completely original characters, this is not so. I think Sakurai and the team have this weird sense of "only so many retro, only so many obscure, only so many one-shots, etc." They never took Metroid much further because it wasn't big in Japan; they never added Geno because his game wasn't recognized enough; they ignored additions like Takamaru, Sukapon, or whatever else because they already had their "minority quota" with Ice Climbers, ROB, and G&W; there were already too many swordfighters, to they gave the axe to Roy and turned Isaac into an Assist; etc. etc.

Just the way it goes, I suppose.

 

[Anarchist_Chase]

For some reason, I don't believe this one bit...and also I don't see a SSB4 coming out until the new gen of systems does.

 

[Machete]

Well, that explains a lot.

Some characters, like Krystal and Ridley, were heavily requested for Brawl, but they're not in. However, the most requested Melee newcomers, like Wario, Wolf, Dedede, Diddy, Meta Knight or Lucas, are in Brawl. In fact, the only "wanted" Melee characters who're not in are Mewtwo and Samurai Goroh, The other newcomers are new characters (Ike, Olimar and Lucario).

I think we could expect something similar for SSB4.

Ridley and Krystal will be the most likely newcomers (specially Ridley, because Metroid hasn't a second character yet). Other popular choices like Goroh, Megaman or Bowser Jr. (both F-Zero and Mario need a new rep, and Megaman is the most likely third-party newcomer) will be close seconds. The rest of the newcomers would be a new pokémon (probably, a new pokémon and, if Pokémon gets five characters, Mewtwo will replace Lucario), the new FE main character (probably replacing Ike), the main character of a new and popular series...


Also, kinda funny that, while we where hoping and supporting a lot of characters, the three Landmasters were laughing at us.

 

[Super Drybones]

Well, that explains a lot.

Some characters, like Krystal and Ridley, were heavily requested for Brawl, but they're not in. However, the most requested Melee newcomers, like Wario, Wolf, Dedede, Diddy, Meta Knight or Lucas, are in Brawl. In fact, the only "wanted" Melee characters who're not in are Mewtwo and Samurai Goroh, The other newcomers are new characters (Ike, Olimar and Lucario).

I think we could expect something similar for SSB4.

Ridley and Krystal will be the most likely newcomers (specially Ridley, because Metroid hasn't a second character yet). Other popular choices like Goroh, Megaman or Bowser Jr. (both F-Zero and Mario need a new rep, and Megaman is the most likely third-party newcomer) will be close seconds. The rest of the newcomers would be a new pokémon (probably, a new pokémon and, if Pokémon gets five characters, Mewtwo will replace Lucario), the new FE main character (probably replacing Ike), the main character of a new and popular series...


Also, kinda funny that, while we where hoping and supporting a lot of characters, the three Landmasters were laughing at us.

I can see us in 6 years
no geno
no ridley
ganon still clone
BUT BY GOD WE GOT KRYSTAL

 

[Gilgamesh]

BUT BY GOD WE GOT KRYSTAL

Who will use another landmaster, of course.

 

[Big-Cat]

I can see us in 6 years
no geno
no ridley
ganon still clone
BUT BY GOD WE GOT KRYSTAL

I hope that isn't it, but it probably will be. Let's just hope expansion packs in some form will come about.

I swear, if Sakurai hadn't focus so much on SSE....

 

[hippochinfat!!]

You guys should stop complaining about the freaking roster. One thing that really annoys me is that you guys use polls that barely any people voted in to measure popularity.

We got LOTS of highly requested newcomers Wario, Pit, Meta-knight, King dedede, Diddy, Ike, Lucas, Wolf, Wind waker Link, Olimar and freaking Sonic. And lets face it deep down we ALL wanted charizard to be a playable character. Snake was extremely unexpected but the fans LOVE him.

So stop crying because a sidekick from an old mediocre mario game didn't make it in or a scaled down ridley that looks extremely stupid or a starfox character who caused the downfall of the series or that some obscure japanese only character that only had 1 ancient NES game that wasn't unique at all or some has-been 3rd party that is only in crappy spinoffs didn't make it in! Not all your favourite characters were going to make it. You guys were setting yourself up for dissapoinment by thinking there would be no clones or thinking ridley could be scaled down (LOL)

Another thing that annoys me is people who say stuff like "OMG ridley/krystal/issaaac/geno all deserved to be in more then ROB". ROB basically saved video games! COME ON.

 

[Machete]

I can see us in 6 years
no geno
no ridley
ganon still clone
BUT BY GOD WE GOT KRYSTAL

That'd be a nightmare.

 

[Chrono Centaur]

You guys should stop complaining about the freaking roster. One thing that really annoys me is that you guys use polls that barely any people voted in to measure popularity.

We got LOTS of highly requested newcomers Wario, Pit, Meta-knight, King dedede, Diddy, Ike, Lucas, Wolf, Wind waker Link, Olimar and freaking Sonic. And lets face it deep down we ALL wanted charizard to be a playable character. Snake was extremely unexpected but the fans LOVE him.

So stop crying because a sidekick from an old mediocre mario game didn't make it in or a scaled down ridley that looks extremely stupid or a starfox character who caused the downfall of the series or that some obscure japanese only character that only had 1 ancient NES game that wasn't unique at all or some has-been 3rd party that is only in crappy spinoffs didn't make it in! Not all your favourite characters were going to make it. You guys were setting yourself up for dissapoinment by thinking there would be no clones or thinking ridley could be scaled down (LOL)

Another thing that annoys me is people who say stuff like "OMG ridley/krystal/issaaac/geno all deserved to be in more then ROB". ROB basically saved video games! COME ON.

That wins an internet. Really, it does.

The roster is fine. Stop having a hissy fit about it.

 

[Intercept]

It is very believable he had already finalized what he wanted the roster to be in 2005. Look at the planning documents in Iwata Asks. He had already decided Ray would be an AT and that there would be no AC character.

 

[Big-Cat]

You guys should stop complaining about the freaking roster. One thing that really annoys me is that you guys use polls that barely any people voted in to measure popularity.

We got LOTS of highly requested newcomers Wario, Pit, Meta-knight, King dedede, Diddy, Ike, Lucas, Wolf, Wind waker Link, Olimar and freaking Sonic. And lets face it deep down we ALL wanted charizard to be a playable character. Snake was extremely unexpected but the fans LOVE him.

So stop crying because a sidekick from an old mediocre mario game didn't make it in or a scaled down ridley that looks extremely stupid or a starfox character who caused the downfall of the series or that some obscure japanese only character that only had 1 ancient NES game that wasn't unique at all or some has-been 3rd party that is only in crappy spinoffs didn't make it in! Not all your favourite characters were going to make it. You guys were setting yourself up for dissapoinment by thinking there would be no clones or thinking ridley could be scaled down (LOL)

Another thing that annoys me is people who say stuff like "OMG ridley/krystal/issaaac/geno all deserved to be in more then ROB". ROB basically saved video games! COME ON.

While they were all highly requested, most of them were highly requested back in the Melee days. The only exceptions to this are Olimar, Ike, and Lucas who was planned.

We're not necessarily whining about X character not getting in, it's that the roster was made without our input sans Sonic. As for setting ourselves up, I agree, but part of it is to blame of Sakurai's half since he overhyped the game as well. Not to mention that most of the game's time went into the forgettable SSE.

Nonetheless, I'm grateful for this game and I can't wait to play it.

 

[Ookami-kun]

But who is to blame on the overhyping? Is it really Sakurai?

 

[Nybb]

I don't see how anybody can "not believe" this. These aren't rumours; Sakurai himself said it. He wouldn't just lie about such a silly detail for no reason. I don't see why it matters whether the characters were chosen in 2005 or 2008. If you're still not happy with the roster, deal with it.

 

[Big-Cat]

But who is to blame on the overhyping? Is it really Sakurai?

Like I said, we and Sakurai overhyped the game. Most of us were thinking that with so much content and that Sakurai and co. thought of everything, we were expecting a bigger roster.

 

[Intercept]

You guys should stop complaining about the freaking roster. One thing that really annoys me is that you guys use polls that barely any people voted in to measure popularity.

We got LOTS of highly requested newcomers Wario, Pit, Meta-knight, King dedede, Diddy, Ike, Lucas, Wolf, Wind waker Link, Olimar and freaking Sonic. And lets face it deep down we ALL wanted charizard to be a playable character. Snake was extremely unexpected but the fans LOVE him.

So stop crying because a sidekick from an old mediocre mario game didn't make it in or a scaled down ridley that looks extremely stupid or a starfox character who caused the downfall of the series or that some obscure japanese only character that only had 1 ancient NES game that wasn't unique at all or some has-been 3rd party that is only in crappy spinoffs didn't make it in! Not all your favourite characters were going to make it. You guys were setting yourself up for dissapoinment by thinking there would be no clones or thinking ridley could be scaled down (LOL)

Another thing that annoys me is people who say stuff like "OMG ridley/krystal/issaaac/geno all deserved to be in more then ROB". ROB basically saved video games! COME ON.

Polls that barely anyone voted in? How do you know? The poll results we have are based on either A) Who was mentioned in every 10th e-mail or B) How many times they were mentioned in Sakurai's journal. I don't remember which, either way, just because 5 is the most anyone got doesn't mean anything.

Also Wario, Pit, Meta Knight, Wolf, Diddy, and Dedede were all highly requested for Melee. Should we really be excited that we finally got those characters? Lucas wasn't as requested as you make it sound, and he's still just a semi-clone. Toon Link? He was decently requested, but he's a complete clone. Olimar? He had two GC games and was created by Shigeru Miyamoto. Sonic was by far the most requested character worldwide, and he wasn't even added in until 2007. Sorry, getting a bunch of shoe-in characters, many of which should have been in Melee, doesn't make me as excited as you are. Secondly, just because you like Charizard/PT and Snake, doesn't mean most people do and would have wanted them more than other characters.

The characters you describe in the next paragraph you clearly just dislike. Let me say it again, just because you like the roster and the characters you didn't like didn't get in and the ones you do like did, doesn't make it a good roster. You are in the minority.

Also, ROB's importance to the videogame industry is a little over-exaggerated. Most NES's that were sold, were not packaged with ROB, trust me.

 

[tafutureboy]

Sonic was by far the most requested character worldwide, and he wasn't even added in until 2007.

QFT, he was THE most requested...people would rather have him in then dare I say any of the other 3rd party possibilities

 

[Intercept]

I would argue Nintendo and Sakurai are mostly to blame for the overhyping actually. Both went on about an insane number of characters. 39, with transformations, is not insane to me. Also, Sakurai said in one dojo update that the whole team was amazed by how much content they managed to fit in the game. I guess he was talking about music and stickers, because 35 characters and 41 (I believe) stages (12 of which are from Melee I believe) is not amazing in the least.

Also, they were the ones who decided to take polls and e-mails and such. What did we get from it? One character, who you don't need a poll to tell you is the most popular? Maybe some music, because we apparently didn't have enough of that.