Sakurai's feelings do NOT matter! Ignore them

[rigapeen]

in response to both

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=163073 (a method for determining brawl skill level)

and http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158790 (gimpyfish's sakurai didnt want competition post)

ive got it!

we all thought sakurai didnt want competitive brawl, but we were all playing matches, trying to beat eachother. this is obviously wrong and defies all laws of competition. the art of war, the bible, greek mythology, shakespeare... read them all and you will see that we've been thinking wrong.

here it is everyone. sakurai wants competitive brawl. new MLG circuit event: SMASH BRAWL HOME RUN CONTEST! STREAMING LIVE FROM LAS VEGAS; AVAILABLE PAY PER VIEW.

/sarcasm


(i bolded the key bits for you, and now with grammar! if that matters pssh)

On a more serious note: I dont know what Sakurai is talking about in that article Gimpyfish wrote about, but either he's being a politician to please soccer moms or hes just plain stupid. You don't make fighting games so people have fun. You make them firstly for money and second for simply making an awesome game.

Lets take some samples here: Starcraft. released in 1996?7? Still played in the biggest tournaments today. Wins game of the year x amount of times, still played and patched today. Has sold 10 million copies.

Brawl has so far sold 1.5 million. It could pass 10 million, who knows.


To summarize: Sakurai has upset the smash community by implying that he does not support competitive brawl, stating that he made brawl to be fun, not about winning. However, taking that statement alone, we know that there is something fake about Sakurai, because the statement is false. Either he is trying to please some group, or he just doesn't know anything.

Here's my stance.

I DON'T GIVE A SHI T ABOUT WHAT SAKURAI SAYS, HIS OPINION HAS NO BEARING ON BRAWL'S COMPETITIVENESS BECAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HES TALKING ABOUT

Here's why.

He says he doesn't get excited at sporting events. You know what happens at sporting events? Grown men on the losing team cry. Players get into fights on the rink and knock their teeth out. People at home cry and cheer, and they put money on games. The sporting industry is bigger than the video game industry and it always will be (atleast in my lifetime).

There is no sport that is marketed for "fun". Kids buy balls and equipment so they can be the next Jerry Rice or Michael Jordan, not so they can figure out how to play and quit when they get bored 2 weeks later. Sakurai simply doesn't understand that, probably because he's Japanese and doesn't understand the correct perspective. yes that is serious. my mom is Korean and she has the same problem.

So. Leave it to us to decide if smash brawl will be played at the tournament level.


discuss.

 

[Golem the Stern Father]

Sakurai simply doesnt understand that, probably because he's Japanese and doenst understand the correct perspective. yes that is serious. my mom is korean and she has the same problem.

This is why this thread fails.
I can understand where you are going with this thread, but most of us on these boards already understand that he probably doesn't understand 'competative' anything.
Maybe the director of the next installment of Smash (if there is) understands and applys this.

 

[KneeSpammer]

faiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiil

 

[KernelColonel]

I'll discuss more and better when you start using proper grammar and spelling, but hey, I do kinda agree with you. I don't think Sakurai wants competition, he wants to attract a diverse amount of people to the game so that they'll play it and he'll make more money. Simply, make a game n00b-friendly to get 30 jillion people buying it. THAT'S success, in his eyes.

However, he cannot apply his single idea of competition to a game played by millions, with millions of ideas of competition. He made it n00b friendly to make money. Mission accomplished. Now this game will be handled by tournament-organizers who without fail will make tournaments forevermore, either out of passion for the game or utter loyalty to the franchise.

I would also like to slip in my idea that Brawl will be competetive simply because of the number of people that will play it. From that number there will be a certain number of people that want to play it for prizes, glory, and winning. That number will be greater, undoubtedly, than the number of people that loathe the game. Brawl will be competetive because we'll play it (speaking as if we already don't...which we do).

 

[rigapeen]

hey you may not like it but it makes sense. i explained my reasoning, its not random trolling

 

[Rhubarbo]

Sakurai says he doesn't want it competitive...It still will be played in competition, but it requires less skill, and is less fun (trust me, if you know how to properly play and you pick Snake, Pit, TL or ROB you'll see). We thought Melee suffered from balance issues, Brawl suffers from issues that limit viable characters to a small pool of spammers. Sakurai didn't intend this, but he didn't know that the community could make the game the way it is now. I swear, I hope at least one SWF member assists in the development of the next Smash game.

 

[Golem the Stern Father]

hey you may not like it but it makes sense. i explained my reasoning, its not random trolling

I may not agree with this, but I respect your honesty and reasoning for this. This may need some rewording, as there are some points that some will exploit to degrade the point you are trying to get across.

 

[rigapeen]

exactly my point rhubarbo. he didnt think smash would be played like it is now, so fast after it came out. now we've found that there are some serious problems with it. I find that I like brawl more than melee (just an opinion, my crewmates disagree), but I don't have any ground on keeping it in tournaments. I'm just saying that we shouldn't be swayed by Sakurai's words.

 

[Mordraug]

So. Leave it to us to decide if smash brawl will be played at the tournament level.


discuss.

This is about the only statement in this post that I agree with.

 

[Mikau et al]

I'll discuss more and better when you start using proper grammar and spelling, but hey, I do kinda agree with you. I don't think Sakurai wants competition, he wants to attract a diverse amount of people to the game so that they'll play it and he'll make more money. Simply, make a game n00b-friendly to get 30 jillion people buying it. THAT'S success, in his eyes.

However, he cannot apply his single idea of competition to a game played by millions, with millions of ideas of competition. He made it n00b friendly to make money. Mission accomplished. Now this game will be handled by tournament-organizers who without fail will make tournaments forevermore, either out of passion for the game or utter loyalty to the franchise.

I would also like to slip in my idea that Brawl will be competetive simply because of the number of people that will play it. From that number there will be a certain number of people that want to play it for prizes, glory, and winning. That number will be greater, undoubtedly, than the number of people that loathe the game. Brawl will be competetive because we'll play it (speaking as if we already don't...which we do).

I must completely disagree with you because your prolific use of that profane term disgusts me. Unforunately for you, I'm no better: SLIP you.

Jk.

But seriously, though, I do agree with you. At least the first two parts. I think there was already a thread created, though, explaining the difference between competition and competitive. Some long bullcrap distinction saying one is just people fighting each other and the other providing reward to those who were legitimately better players. There was something about whether it's challenging or not as well, I think...
I do agree that by the very fact that people fighting each other on it will make it a competition, but I think there are those who would disagree with you on whether it's actually competitive. Just letting you know.
Personally, I figure that if enough tournaments happen (which there are already a lot of), then Brawl will be forced to step up to at least some degree of competitiveness. Will it ever reach that of Melee? Only time will tell. I don't think we'll ever know because the two games are just o different--you can't really compare them on an absolute scale.

 

[Meta Ryu]

well I do agree some moves are spammable (mach tornado comes to mind) however after awhile these "spam" moves will honestly not be much of a problem. Sure you can use it over and over, but players everywhere are getting use to them and finding new ways to counter them. In the case of snake and rob, they're what make their characters, and create a whole new meta game based around traps, new mindgames etc.

Also I don't believe for one moment that sakurai doesn't know what he's doing. The man's been through three smashes. His view as I see it is to promote goodwill among competitors and to seek new heights of gameplay. The game has it's flaws but at the same time it's a work of art unrivaled and massively balanced. Once people learn the counters to those spam moves, the gme will evolve. Again.

 

[rigapeen]

Also I don't believe for one moment that sakurai doesn't know what he's doing. The man's been through three smashes. .

the fact that he's been through 3 smash games is perfect proof that he doesn't know what he's doing.

we all knew smash had competitive possibilities from smash 64 (watch isai). Sakurai could have built on that or atleast responded to it. then we have smash melee, which is impossible to hide that it has great competitive potential. When MLG has smash as one of its two games you know its good. Then brawl comes out and he's still stubborn as ever.

anyone else want to argue in favor of sakurai?

 

[The Executive]

Sakurai says he doesn't want it competitive...It still will be played in competition, but it requires less skill, and is less fun (trust me, if you know how to properly play and you pick Snake, Pit, TL or ROB you'll see). We thought Melee suffered from balance issues, Brawl suffers from issues that limit viable characters to a small pool of spammers. Sakurai didn't intend this, but he didn't know that the community could make the game the way it is now. I swear, I hope at least one SWF member assists in the development of the next Smash game.

Most uninitiated players end up killing themselves with Snake.

Pit is just cheap, hands down.

R.O.B. can be neutralized, and Toon Link is not cheap when played by anyone above moron level.

 

[Dime]

anyone else want to argue in favor of sakurai?

Yeah he is successful by every standard except smashboard standards.
Millions happy and only about 80,000 pissed.

 

[Yuna]

Sakurai can make a game marketed at the casual market and still make tons of money. SingStar is such a game and it's quite popular (and makes tons of money).

So it's quite possible for him to both want to and actually make a game that's tailor-made for the casual market and still make truckloads of money (and he has). Your premise fails.

Yes, we will be the ones determining whether or not Brawl is worth playing at a competitive level. So far, we've decided that it isn't (especially when we can continue playing Melee)(unless I've missed something).

No, I'm not saying Brawl is unplayable. I play it... for fun. I wouldn't play it for money, though.

So, really, you just ranted off about nothing at all... nothing at alll... nothing at all...

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

ame.

I hope it wouldn't be someone who started on the Brawl boards. Make it some random melee pro, or someone with half a brain. I get so bored in my college classes I think of movesets that would declone characters.

 

[The Executive]

I play it... for fun.

Yep. I try to play competitively when the occasion arises, but it's way more satisfying to annihilate with Wario-Man and his various ways of killing you.

 

[Tofu Beast]

 

[Ryuker]

Misleading topic title. I was hoping for a example in which sakurai states that he does want the game to be competitive but doesn't place that at top priority or something. Instead I read a post that just goes on ranting about how we shouldn't give a **** about what he thinks and that we as community can make it competitive. Utter bull**** if you tell me. We as community can't change a game. We can hold tourneys in it and promote it but we can't change the code or alter the mechanics. Thus we rely heavily on the creators and if these creators make the game with a different attention then maybe were trying to make oranges turn into apples... .

I'm not saying thats the case with brawl yet and I say lets just give it a year and see what we get out of it. Maybe camping is the best option but it is not the only option and I haven't seen it too be game breaking yet. Let's not jump to conclusions here.

That said though as a melee veteran I still enjoy melee more and if melee tourneys stay I'm most likely gonna focus on those more then brawl. I think thats the case with most of the veterans so in that sense which game we consider to be the most competitive is definetly still melee and therefor melee shouldn't be abandont so soon.

I guess I get the message of the topic creator but it doesn't really add anything to the discussion in the other threads. The thread title is also misleading and I suggest you change that.

I consider it too be big problem right now that there is a growing trend of nerfing games in the game industry. Games have gotten retardedly easy and thats partly cause everything is done for you. The same thing happened with mkwii and can anyone tell me of a recent game that had any kind of challange too it compared to earlier games? Note I'm not saying these games are bad and not fun but they aren't improving on their predecessors as much as they should. As a competitive community we should definetly be concerned about this (seriously most company's don't seem to give a **** about the competitive communities) and I'm hoping the discussion will be more about that instead of just this is not melee 2.0 we will hold tourneys anyway so on.

 

[The Executive]

I consider it too be big problem right now that there is a growing trend of nerfing games in the game industry.

This has always been. Holding right will make Sonic the Hedgehog play itself.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Seriously, why would sakurai make a competitive, game if n00b friendly, more easy, less competitive game sells more.

No reason.

It's all about $ after all :'(

*goes play melee and gets beat up by 9-level cpus*

Darn it

 

[Cookiez]

There is a massive trend towards "dumbing down" games to appeal to the wider audience, CSS for example. Smash is just another casualty of the great game of profit.

 

[Tofu Beast]

I realy think that Sakurai is just queer

 

[Ojanya]

(especially when we can continue playing Melee)

QFT

10deadsakurais

 

[rigapeen]

Sakurai can make a game marketed at the casual market and still make tons of money. .

yeah so can anyone, thats what almost all video games are. theres plenty of fighting games that have no competitive value. however, sakurai has said many things about brawl's competitiveness, generally swaying towards not competitive. I'm saying sakurai doenst know what he's talking about and his opinions should be discarded.

So, really, you just ranted off about nothing at all... nothing at alll... nothing at all...

just clarifying. my post is concluding that sakurai should not be an authority or have any weight on the decision. the other stuff is just supporting arguments and the top bit was just for fun.

i guess i'll change the title and remove the top bit if i need to.

 

[DragonBlade]

The game itself is ultimately what determines how competitive it is. Theres little we can do to change a game thats been deliberately been designed to do the opposite. We may be able to find ways to make up for all the depth lost, but if the game has fundamental flaws at its core, there is really nothing we can do.

The truth of the matter is, all the ATs in the world are not going to change anything if they cannot make up for the speed lost from the removal of L-canceling and the combo complexity lost from the new hitlag properties. None of the developments so far have come close to accomplishing this, thus there will always be a point in Brawl that the only way to continue improving competitively will be to take out the game and put Melee back in.