Sakurai's personal troll: A diddy kong matchup thread~!

[Kuro~]

OK! Lets get this ball rollin. Any discussion relevant to mu will be discussed here ratios at the bottom of your post dont post a ratio w/o specific relevant info. k thx.

relevant being...
advantages/disadvantages of stages
cp's
ban's
bread n' butter moves
Things to watch out for
How to approach it
things to keep in mind
etc. etc.





Go!

ALL MATCHUP THREADS WILL NOW BE APPROXIMATELY 2 WEEKS IN LENGHT. The ones that are finished early good. We can then move on. So work as quick as possible to get as many PoV as possible!! The faster you guys discuss the faster matchups will be done by me!!!!

And if u guys don't provide sufficient information to where i am comfortable in writing a summary if i have no prior knowledge myself. It won't be done till it has that sufficient amount. End of story. No exceptions. Unless i'm feeling happy-go-luckay(pun intended >3>)

 

[Kuro~]

Bump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Abel1994]

This was quick o-o

YOUR SO HELPFULL MOD!

 

[fUddO]

I don't know much about this matchup, but from what I've heard, staying in the air is the way to go. SH Dairs, retreating aerials, etc. Can't help much

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

I feel like he is baiting the grammar corrections now.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

why are we doing diddy again? did everyone forget that we just did that like 2 months ago? look up the one admiral pit did 2 months ago and just copy the info from that one. seriously that MU hasn't changed since then. camp, use banana's to your advantage, plank, don't challenge fair. there you go, that is the diddy kong match up.

 

[Abel1994]

^ double post much?


Lets do Pit vs wolf o-o somthing we never do lol

Or Pika since their ar emore pika mains out there

 

[Kuro~]

2 months? My matchup thread has been up longer than that. And show me the link of a fully done recent within at leats 6 months or so complete discussion including stages, tactics, moves etc. Then i'll change it.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i can't find it. very well ill bite

 

[Abel1994]

God fine ill help yall brb lol


Edit THIS WAS ALL U HAD TO DO! MOD!

 

[Xcallion]

so... are we actually doing this or not. If i get an affirmative, i'll give my 2 cents on the MU but it doesnt seem like this thread is going very well. I love the title though, kuro. Very funny

 

[Kuro~]

so... are we actually doing this or not. If i get an affirmative, i'll give my 2 cents on the MU but it doesnt seem like this thread is going very well. I love the title though, kuro. Very funny

Thanks! I try to be creative with them. And yes im dead serious. I want to get as many matchups done as possible as fast as possible but with good quality. I usually write the summaries you've seen so far in like 3-5 minutes so that's not a big issue now that i got my format down. So discuss discuss discuss cuz there won't be any more delays

 

[Abel1994]

ok ill go first
whenever i fight a diddy and he hold a banana i usually fly up then look like ima land but fly again to make him throw his banana then i hold the banana against him

 

[Zulo]

I guess I'll write something. I have some experience against Chompy's Diddy, but I usually lose so take it with a grain of salt. xD

advantages/disadvantages of stages: Diddy takes away from us some of our best stages, due to his epic ground control.. Namely FD. We want a stage with platforms to hinder his banana combos.

cp's: I kinda like Halberd, since Diddy doesn't take good advantage of the low ceiling. It also has that platform in the middle and a lot of it we can shark through the stage. I guess Lylat would probably be good, maybe BF too. And Rainbow Cruise if they don't ban it, just be careful of the banana lock infinite on the wall on the boat.

ban's: FD. We have no escape from his bananas here. Other bad stages for us would be the usual stages we can't go under.

bread n' butter moves: Arrows. Arrow camp if you get ahold of one of his bananas, don't be too aggro with our insane glide toss. It can be good for approaching as a mixup, but it's too far to combo well with. Bair as usual is good for gimping, and Diddy's not all that hard to gimp. He will try to recover closer to the stage than normal on us to avoid our arrows. If you're fancy with your arrows cough Maharba you could loop one up and make it come down on the side of the stage, there's a decent chance you'll hit him out of it. Or if you'd rather play it safe falling bair works too. Just watch out for the barrels. AR blocks all of his approaches when he has a banana except diddy kick, and it sometimes seems to beat that too. Also it obviously reflects the banana back at him which is good. Use that instead of mirror shield as a reflector in this matchup usually. CQC you've got utilt, jab, rising dair.. But don't go up close if he has a banana nearby.

Things to watch out for: If he grabs you at low percents, DI away. He has followups like uair I think. Obviously watch out for bananas.. If he has two out, just stay away and fire arrows at him. Make him leave his fortress. Arrows > peanuts. If you trip near him, DI toward him and up. There's a chance you can DI out of fsmash and it's the right way to DI his dsmash anyways. If there's a banana between him and you, he'll probably go for the dash attack, so get ready to punish it. Watch out for the fair too. But trust me, he'll go for the banana.

How to approach it: Very carefully. Don't. Well if you really must, dash shield if he has bananas out. Dair beats most if not all of his options if timed and spaced correctly. Nair is okay, but if he has a banana he'll just throw it at you.

things to keep in mind: Don't try to get fancy with the bananas. If you watch a higher level play, a lot of them just get rid of the bananas as soon as they get one in their hand (Not Pits because there are none in higher level play lol). Mirror shielding his recoveries is cool, but not if he diddy humps you. Recover high if you can, he has two spikes and plenty of ways to hit you out of your WoI. Including banana pull by the ledge, it's like Sonic's spring of death.

 

[Xcallion]

How to approach it: Very carefully. Don't. Well if you really must...

lol. This can be applied to most of our MU's xD

 

[CHOMPY]

Here are some ways you can pick up the banana off from the ground.

Fair
Nair
Dair
Bair (Requires buffering)
Rising air dodge banana toss (Any direction) (Jump + air dodge + C-stick)
Dash Attack (Obvious)

I main Diddy myself, and I have had plenty of experience fighting against good Diddy players.

Basically, the way to defeat Diddy is beat him at his own game. Pit has a much farther glide toss. His aerials outclass Diddy in every way. While you see Diddy pulling out the banana, quickly run up to him and Uair him and quickly pickup the bananas as Pit is falling (airdodge to instantly pick up the bananas off from the ground), so Pit will have the ground control when he's holding the banana. Most Diddies tend to glide toss Oos, so be sure to use a RAR Dair at his face and you can juggle Diddy from there. Basically, you need to be in Diddys face throughout the match and don't let him get away with those bananas. Arrows can screw Diddy over big time, since Diddy tends have a hard time getting back on stage, so be sure to use the arrow after Diddy has used up his second jump.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

esca taught me a great thing about pit and banana's that hella upped my nana game (especially since i have a trigger set to jump). pit's jc item slide distance = diddy's glide toss. ill go hella in depth on this later like about how we can wing dash to pick up a banana and wing toss when holding a banana and how to use them and stages and cqc and such. but right now im at McDonald's getting a drink so im not down for hella in depth atm.

 

[Boofy!]

I'm hella looking foward to it

 

[Abel1994]

esca taught me a great thing about pit and banana's that hella upped my nana game (especially since i have a trigger set to jump). pit's jc item slide distance = diddy's glide toss. ill go hella in depth on this later like about how we can wing dash to pick up a banana and wing toss when holding a banana and how to use them and stages and cqc and such. but right now im at McDonald's getting a drink so im not down for hella in depth atm.

weres ma big mac?

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Dair camp whatever platform is near ya. Angel ring is a good mixup whenever the diddy has momentum and you know he will throw a banana. If you pick up one you could always regular toss as it would obviously combo into an arrow then keep spamming etc. Gliding isnt good in the matchup. Offstage wing refresh with a banana seems like a good idea though I never tried it.

 

[Kuro~]

Dair camp whatever platform is near ya. Angel ring is a good mixup whenever the diddy has momentum and you know he will throw a banana. If you pick up one you could always regular toss as it would obviously combo into an arrow then keep spamming etc. Gliding isnt good in the matchup. Offstage wing refresh with a banana seems like a good idea though I never tried it.

Lol i've been using Bananas out of WoI for a while now but i didn't think about using it with chasing them offstage with wing refresh. Gonna try that out haha.

On a side note: I really need help in this matchup I lost to 3 diddy's at tourney on saturday. All close but i still lost.

 

[Abel1994]

You think diddy can troll better then me!

 

[GDX]

yea, the wing refresh thing or whatever its called (when you shorthop -> upB on stage, fall off do an attack to cancel, and you can still re-upB) is pretty annoying to deal with as a diddy main

in fact, Pit should be looking to gimp diddy literally every stock. You guys have so many tools/options to and yet when i play against a pit it never happens

id imagine a mixup of shield/angel ring would slowly push diddy towards the end of the stage, which at the point where hes flip kick/hump distance away it turns into a reaction game (shield beats flip kick, spotdodge beats hump, pivot grab can beat either depending on distance, or just angel ring before either of those come out )

you guys dont really even have to camp diddy, but if you want to then leave FD unbanned. FD/smashville are actually really good stages to camp diddy with any character really.

Kuro was so salty about his diddy losses yesterday that i felt bad so i decided to do this quick matchup rundown...thing. usually im too lazy to do these on other boards

 

[Kuro~]

yea, the wing refresh thing or whatever its called (when you shorthop -> upB on stage, fall off do an attack to cancel, and you can still re-upB) is pretty annoying to deal with as a diddy main

in fact, Pit should be looking to gimp diddy literally every stock. You guys have so many tools/options to and yet when i play against a pit it never happens

id imagine a mixup of shield/angel ring would slowly push diddy towards the end of the stage, which at the point where hes flip kick/hump distance away it turns into a reaction game (shield beats flip kick, spotdodge beats hump, pivot grab can beat either depending on distance, or just angel ring before either of those come out )

you guys dont really even have to camp diddy, but if you want to then leave FD unbanned. FD/smashville are actually really good stages to camp diddy with any character really.

Kuro was so salty about his diddy losses yesterday that i felt bad so i decided to do this quick matchup rundown...thing. usually im too lazy to do these on other boards

Ya...i'm not even salty about other losses. Just diddy, cuz i just go at it blindly. I have no knowledge of the pit vs diddy so i basically treat it on fundamentals...i had alot better naner control vs dfear than you as well. I have that same issue you had...cept MM don't seem to turn that switch for me lol. Diddy is gay. I lost to three ****ing diddy's. Would of been 4 had i played mampam. I'm ranting now...I mad lol. Only diddy i beat is tony


I appreciate the tidbits keith. LIke i said in my shoutout, i'm gonna be looking at you to teach me the diddy matchup. One fest at a time. And one dollar at a time

 

[GDX]

i can play you seriously without the need for you to MM me

but if you want to keep giving me dollars thats fine too. far be it from me to turn down the ability to win money

 

[Abel1994]

Diddy is a cheap *** char and you have to learn how to use BAN ITEMS in order to use the bananas against him

 

[GDX]

if your personal ability to control items is less than or equal to diddy players ability to control items, then its a good idea to not use them against him if you dont have to

aka, throw them straight up, or gain control of it and put it down. Diddy is an exponentially worse character the less bananas he has, and both of those things will keep him without bananas longer. it will also force him to the side of the stage much faster, so he can attempt to pull them out again (and you want him near the side of the stage since you have all those tools to gimp him)

and btw, diddy mains are the best trolls. followed by wario mains. deal with it

/shades

 

[Abel1994]

I wish I mained a troll

 

[Kuro~]

i can play you seriously without the need for you to MM me

but if you want to keep giving me dollars thats fine too. far be it from me to turn down the ability to win money

Well, that works also then lol. Just saiyan that cuz of some (quite old) earlier statements from you. Very well, good sir. I expect full gayness and SSJ3 matches vs you at least once a tourney once i feel confident then i'll really MM you.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

The thing is even if you're doing well against Diddy, he can capitalize on mistakes really well. Items are banned for a reason and this monkey can have 2 at the same time, he gets true combo's, kill set ups, and gimps using them. It's one you kind of learn from experience.

Brinstar is a good cp, but I take them to Halberd because I don't like pocket metaknight. Halberd is probably the best stage for the job. It's got a platform to stay away from bananas and it's probably the longest stage when you get to the ground part which is great for camping.

Remember he can Diddy hump angel ring so don't hold it out too long.

 

[dualseeker]

Let me start out by saying that if Pit stays in the air, and just waits for an opening, Diddy will have a much harder time getting a nanner lock on you. Stay in the air as much as possible while still avoiding risks, it will help you a lot, especially since Pit's aerial game can more or less beat Diddy's. Use the many jumps Pit has to fake Diddy out; don't use all three all at once, make those three mid-air jumps count! Wait for an opening and strike, or head for a free nanner. Did I mention to stay in the air a lot?/sarcasm

Pit should also be looking to grab one of Diddy's nanners whenever possible. If Diddy isn't guarding one of his Nanners at all, then go for it, because Pit has many set ups with the nanner; it'll also hinder Diddy's nanner game. If you get a hold of a nanner, you have a few options available. One is to just keep hold of the nanner and camp. If you keep hold of a nanner, it'll prevent Diddy from using two at once, and he'll be forced to approach sooner or later. If you see an opening in Diddy's approach, try to throw the Nanner at him; or if you want to keep camping, run away and continue to camp.

The other option you have is to be offensive with the Nanner you have. For example, you could just hang in the air above Diddy and wait for an opportunity to throw the nanner down. If it hits, you'll be able to hit him with Dair or another aerial if you're able to do so. If it doesn't, you can just keep hanging in the air and retreat to a safer location. Glide tossing will also help with being offensive, as Pit has many Glide toss set ups with the Nanner. Just try not to get to predictable with the Glide Toss, or Diddy can punish you badly.

For stages, I would follow the earlier comment of picking stages with platforms. It'll help Pit stay in the air, and give him a chance to grab a nanner if Diddy throws the nanner upwards and it happens to land on a platform. Also pick stages that Pit can just stay in the air and have excellent control of the stage while in the air, such as Halberd or Delfino where Pit can shark. Although, be careful on those stages, as Diddy can still hit you with Dair if you get to predictable with sharking. If you can't seem to find a way to avoid Diddy's Dair, just shark with Arrows. Another nice Counter Pick would be Frigate. The first transformation would hinder Diddy's recovery since there's no ledge on the left side. Diddy would be forced to use his traditional jump kick as a recovery instead of recovering low and using Up B. If he uses either or, Pit can punish it accordingly (especially Up B) as long as he responds correctly. In summary, just Counter Pick stages that either help Pit stay in the air, hinder Diddy's recovery in any way, or both.

Pit should avoid stages that don't give him much room to move, a stage that doesn't have any platforms/hard to stay in the air, or a stage that doesn't allow him to camp. In my opinion, Pit should avoid Castle Siege. The first transformation isn't bad, but the second transformation has walk off ledges. Although, other than that, I cannot think of any stage that is particularly bad for Pit against Diddy.

I feel that my review has been a bit too one-sided towards what Pit can do, but I'll probably make a revision sometime ^^;. I really don't believe that Pit has a disadvantage in this Match-Up, though, in fact he most likely has the advantage. Hope my review has been helpful ^^;.

 

[Kuro~]

The thing is even if you're doing well against Diddy, he can capitalize on mistakes really well. Items are banned for a reason and this monkey can have 2 at the same time, he gets true combo's, kill set ups, and gimps using them. It's one you kind of learn from experience.

Brinstar is a good cp, but I take them to Halberd because I don't like pocket metaknight. Halberd is probably the best stage for the job. It's got a platform to stay away from bananas and it's probably the longest stage when you get to the ground part which is great for camping.

Remember he can Diddy hump angel ring so don't hold it out too long.

I survived a dsmash at like 140-150%~ in all seriousness though pit is pretty surprising as far as weight goes. I've survived freshmoves that just makes me go WHAAAT?o.0

Also, im starting to love frigate as my universal cp. Some nich things that are just too good there lol.

 

[Sails]

I've played this matchup a bit, and I don't feel it's too slanted in either characters favor. I can't say anything that hasn't already been said, so I'll just toss in that I think it's an even matchup. Each character can do some pretty nasty things to the other, there's no clear winner.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i wish i could contribute to this, and the thing is while i do have knowledge of the MU i have yet to actually beat gnes let alone get even close (god him and mr. sync threw my pit around like a rag doll tonight, did okay with marth tho..... meh no) to winning even if i do manage to get him 2 stocks down SOMEHOW but i fear if i give anything that it may be wrong since im always losing to gnes anyways so it'd probably be incorrect. i can tell you tho that halberd is indeed the stage to take diddy, it's the only stage where i can do decently meh against him (well, there is a higher chance that ill do more damage to gnes on halberd than anywhere else really is all im saying).

10saltyaboutnotbeinggoodenough

edit: just in case either of you 2 get this on namesearch, i have a lot of fun playing brawl with you 2, i just hate how im obviously not even close too a challenge let alone close to being considered average. i just don't get it, like.... grekhkah'lafj ogiu j! i just wish i could be on par with you guys but im just not and when i play you guys i watch myself playing and i look like a scrub and im pissed at myself for doing so poorly. it's like all i can think when i see myself playing is, "!@#$ mystic, is that really the best you can do? you really suck at this game compared to almost everyone else around here, and you're not improving very fast. what the hell is your problem? can't you figure out what's wrong and fix it?" and every time i ask, i get the same answer from myself, no. i have no idea why i fail so hard at this game. especially when i did so much better at HoM2 than i did tonight, which implies to me that i got worse. which pisses me off towards myself more

supersalttowardsself, hatesnotbeingonpar, hatesnotunderstandingbrawlmentally, rage

 

[Kuro~]

i wish i could contribute to this, and the thing is while i do have knowledge of the MU i have yet to actually beat gnes let alone get even close (god him and mr. sync threw my pit around like a rag doll tonight, did okay with marth tho..... meh no) to winning even if i do manage to get him 2 stocks down SOMEHOW but i fear if i give anything that it may be wrong since im always losing to gnes anyways so it'd probably be incorrect. i can tell you tho that halberd is indeed the stage to take diddy, it's the only stage where i can do decently meh against him (well, there is a higher chance that ill do more damage to gnes on halberd than anywhere else really is all im saying).

10saltyaboutnotbeinggoodenough

edit: just in case either of you 2 get this on namesearch, i have a lot of fun playing brawl with you 2, i just hate how im obviously not even close too a challenge let alone close to being considered average. i just don't get it, like.... grekhkah'lafj ogiu j! i just wish i could be on par with you guys but im just not and when i play you guys i watch myself playing and i look like a scrub and im pissed at myself for doing so poorly. it's like all i can think when i see myself playing is, "!@#$ mystic, is that really the best you can do? you really suck at this game compared to almost everyone else around here, and you're not improving very fast. what the hell is your problem? can't you figure out what's wrong and fix it?" and every time i ask, i get the same answer from myself, no. i have no idea why i fail so hard at this game. especially when i did so much better at HoM2 than i did tonight, which implies to me that i got worse. which pisses me off towards myself more

supersalttowardsself, hatesnotbeingonpar, hatesnotunderstandingbrawlmentally, rage

Were you drunk again?

Anyways, it's gnes. That makes anything that works even more valuable cuz it has reputable success. So join the discussion.

Asfar as the rage matter, dude, you just ****ing started playing good people and taking this game competitively. Your progressing just fine. You can't just hope overnight to be on level with people like dat. If your having that much trouble with "Regression" (this is gonna sound stupid...but ik it helps cuz i've told others to do it b4) keep a journal of what you learned from each smashfest. What you remembered working, what bad habits you had, what you can replace them with etc. etc. Write it down after each smashfest. That way with your "problem" only playing every so often won't drop you like you say it is.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

oh ya. wayyy drunk. im suprised i payed attention to my spelling though because that was like 3 extra dirty martini's and a couple shots in.

@journal idea,
my buddy ignis in cali did that so i know where you coming from. i planned on doing it back in the day but i never actually did and just forgot about it. i should start doing that though because he got every time he would go to my buddy's house. ill look into that next time i go over there (which should be friday).

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Diddy is scary to me, lol--but I believe Pit has the advantage somehow. I'm afraid every time I play a diddy even if I win. I have to remove this fear block somehow. The first time I played Big Lou, I got him down to 1 stock, but it was friendly so it doesn't count, but yeah...I'm never really sure how to play the matchup. Diddy doesn't have much range besides fair, f-tilt, and side-b. There's nothing really to fear besides bannas which can be catched/held. His f-smash can be DI'd out of, and most kills are from a banana-dsmash or fair offstage or high percent uair. Those are his main kill moves.

Big Lou uses side-b a lot, and it beats shield so badly, if you think or wait to long-sideb is hard to get around.

 

[Abel1994]

I wish his banana had a 50% chance of being not gay

 

[Xcallion]

that would really screw diddy over. a better solution would be to make it so the bannanas have the same % chance of NOT tripping as running characters have of tripping while running.
This is rather off topic though, not to mention a pointless line of discussion.
Assuming that the diddy doesnt have a pocket MK they're going to ban brinstar(bannin' brinstar? i still got three dawg!) so RC and frigate seem like our best CP's

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

alright i guess it's about time i stopped complaining about gnes phobia and got down to laying out what i know.

1. for CPs: halberd, brinstar (kinda, it the acid can force confrontation which is bad in a finite area against diddy), delphino, and RC (although he does have his perks there). so all in all halberd and delphino are where you want this match to go purely because of our sharking and planking and arrow planking. this is of dire importance because it is the one virtually fullproof tactic against diddy.

2. if you get a hold of a banana camp until you are forced into a position where you can use the banana to your advantage or you have to retreat be it through scrooging or jumping away and gliding or whatever.

3. jab if he gets close, or grab. dtilt is alright but you can follow it up like normal at lower percents because dat fair. however start abusing it at higher percents to get him in position for our uair.

4. the most important thing about the diddy kong MU. learn how to insta catch whether you use airdodge, aerial z catch, or jab catch (this one is the best to do but also the hardest to do. master it).

5. don't forget, he can gimp you with nuts and nanas if you aren't careful.

there you go guys. now unfortunately i feel compelled to start a new thread and add to the clutter but it is indeed going to be for the best for all of us. i deem it important enough to put off the PS 1 discussion for a bit because this thread will be, imo, the thread that will help all of us grow to higher levels of player capacity and skill.