Samus' Detailed Matchup Guide ; #5 Snake

[Teran]

Spiking him is basically a guaranteed KO, even if he meteor cancels, because he'll be forced into upB.
You can try edgehogging his sideB if you can predict a sweetspot attempt. You can punish a sideB onstage with correct prediction, or you could go for a lower risk lower reward zair into his sideB at its later stages where there are no invincibility frames.
He's light you're heavy, yet he can;t CG you. Use your survivability to try and kill earlier, again back to the spike.
Did I mention your sexy spike?
Zair is probably your best tool for putting pressure on Falco, we're not used to getting from that sort of medium long range, it can help you through our laser fortress.
Spike. Seriously, get us offstage, your best bet at killing Falco is to gimp or SPIKE to death or SPIKE to gimp/edgehog. That's all I can think of for now.

Hands off my Bread.

 

[Royta]

Spikebread!

But yeah you are right, get Falco of-stage and setup for the ****..if that ever happens ;(
Thanks for calling our spike sexy <3

@all again, voting is now open for the next character btw. Just shout out ;p Or should we use GaW, since they are discussing us?

 

[n00b]

G&W

10leepuffs

 

[Ravin]

Example of perfecting shielding and stage limiting of Falcos camping, as well as gimping and spacing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFpf-b7nDAo

 

[Cherry64]

Does Samus automatically stop herself from being chaing rabbed by Falco? or is there a favorable direction to DI out of it?

I'd say up, floatyness sucks but ti has it's uses.

 

[Royta]

Write up is up, and next character is GaW since they are doing us too;p

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174763&page=62
you can discuss the matchup both here and there, so lets hop to it!

EDIT: let me know what you think of the write-up (s), things you like and don't like. I can't see it all ;p

 

[Ravin]

When fighting game and Watch do this.

1.Pick BF
2.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFEQZrT-MpI
3.????
4. Profit.

 

[LanceStern]

I really like that writeup. I have absolutely zero experience against game and watch...

He can't do much to hurt your zair correct?

 

[Royta]

I'll ask some stuff I asked in the GaW boards here as well:

Does Zair beat your Bair? Anyone know;p

@ Lance, thanks for the feedback!
@ Ravin, wtf @ that kill xD I tried it too but didn't work for **** ;o

 

[Ravin]

Its a glitch. It only happened because G&W tried to smash. But i hit him with my down smash on his Fsmash first frame. It causes unrealistic knockback.

Zair - Just about anything G&W can throw at you. Keep your game mixed up and spacing well. Only thing to truely worry about is his Bair. Seriously. Hes not that difficult.

Your ranged and hes seriously closed range. You have a wider array of tactics then the Bair spam he can pull. He can try to turtle out your projectiles, Just dont feed the bucket, always fire missiles first then charged shot. As you would with Ness.

 

[The Milk Monster]

How useful is Zair'ing against G&W? Is it mostly used to stop aerial approaches?
What percent does a full charge shot take G&W out?

 

[Crystanium]

I know it's late, but I thought this would be good to use to get an idea of Samus versus Falco. UNITY does not main Falco. He mains Snake, but he has used different characters besides Snake, including Falco. Thanks goes to Orichalcum for uploading the replay for me.

Dryn (Samus) vs. UNITY (Falco)

Or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H65ZShJqHSY&feature=related

Both go to the same video, but the first is just in a format that looks cleaner.

 

[Crystanium]

All right, ladies and gentlemen. I just finished brawling with a friend who used Mr. Game & Watch on me. I saw a few tricks he tried using on me. Anyone without experience against Mr. Game & Watch, let alone someone who mains Mr. Game & Watch might be in for a bit of a surprise. Often times, when Mr. Game & Watch grabs you, what he will do is throw you down. There are three reasons why I can see why this throw is used.

1. It leads into a tech chase. For those of you who aren't familiar with the term, a tech chase would be when Mr. Game & Watch throws you down, and then waits for you to roll to the left or to the right, or even simply stand back up or attack while getting back up. If you roll to the left, Mr. Game & Watch will run to the left and grab you. If you roll to the right, he'll do the same thing. If you get up, he'll grab you. If you attack as you are getting back up, he will shield-grab you. Basically, you're screwed, unless Mr. Game & Watch messes up or if you tech when he throws you down.
2. It allows Mr. Game & Watch to grab again. This is different from the tech chase. What Mr. Game & Watch does is he throws you down, uses his neutral A on you and then grabs you again. This one isn't difficult to get out of.
3. At high percent, Mr. Game & Watch will uses his d-smash after throwing you down, which results in a KO. Like the second one, this isn't too difficult to avoid, as the d-smash can miss.

Other things to remember. Mr. Game & Watch's Oil Panic will remain the same, even if you KO him. So if his Oil Panic is full or almost full, it will be that way when he respawns. The best choice of projectile to use against him are the Homing and Super Missiles. You'll have to be unpredictable when you plan on firing your Charge Shot. Also, when brawling with my friend, I KO'd him twice with my d-tilt. The first time he was around 161%. That was the percent he was KO'd at. The next percent was lower, around 130%, I think. This was on Lylat Cruise. This means that Mr. Game & Watch might be KO'd in a lesser amount of damage percent. I don't know if my friend tried to DI, and I know he didn't use that one trick Mr. Game & Watch has to survive.

 

[-Crews-]

How useful is Zair'ing against G&W? Is it mostly used to stop aerial approaches?
What percent does a full charge shot take G&W out?

Well, think of it like this. the zair both stops their aerial approach (and) is your aerial approach. it is very effictive because it stops their ground approach too if timed right. not to mention it sends the opponent off the edge which is exactly where samus wants them.

and im not exactly sure when a full charge shot will kill him but if u were in the middle of final, shot g&w and he di'd properly, i gustimate he would die somewhere around 100% (i think). maybe a lil over or a lil under.....i think

 

[DelxDoom]

GW is one of the only characters that is somewhat okay because you can outspace him and actually kill him with dtilt.

If you don't know how GW's moves work, you will likely lose. Go play as GW for a couple matches and try out all of his moves. See that back air turtle? It goes through everything, but has a tiny bit of landing lag. See dair key? it goes through everything but has a little more landing lag. See his smashes? They kill at like 80% and have weird hitboxes.

His nair is like the best move in the game, it becomes even better when you are in the air

No seriously, run away from nairs
or like
fastfall?
ohwait samus can't do that


uh yeah just space, watch for bairs and don't get hit/killed by smashes... dtilt for kills at like 130
watch for bucketing your charge shots

general missile spam doesn't work against his bair, so you might want to zair him when he lands with bair

spacing grabs is like one of the few ways to hit him =D

he has invincibility at the first few frames of his up b, but he's actually decently easy to edgeguard
- homing missile when he's further away from the ledge
- utilt can probably hit him

*shrug* I don't punctuate, sorry

 

[Sago]

gw is an easy matchup just outspace him

 

[Ravin]

Dont just spam Zair. ****ing christ.

Mix it up, use both, He will start to dash or rush and or power shield, keep it mixed up to keep them on edge.

 

[n00b]

To all of you Samuses who enjoy ledge camping/stalling/retethering/broiling..

Don't be surprised if GW randomly instant dash attacks you and stage spikes you on battlefield because its hitbox lasts super long, its knockback is super high and you won't expect it in time to walltech..

 

[The Milk Monster]

Well, think of it like this. the zair both stops their aerial approach (and) is your aerial approach. it is very effictive because it stops their ground approach too if timed right. not to mention it sends the opponent off the edge which is exactly where samus wants them.

and im not exactly sure when a full charge shot will kill him but if u were in the middle of final, shot g&w and he di'd properly, i gustimate he would die somewhere around 100% (i think). maybe a lil over or a lil under.....i think

I didn't know if it hurt his ground approach at all, since I thought you'd be too low for the zair to come out.
Have you guys landed a lot of spikes/bair stage spikes against a recovering G&W, or is it too tricky since his up b hit box lasts till the parachute?
Just trying to pick up some tips in case I end up having to fight Needle of Juntah next tourney I go to.
Bucket braking could probably save G&W if he was in the middle with proper DI.
So I'd say maybe around 120+.

 

[n00b]

G&W's up B boosts you up and above him -- you don't want to be there. He can put you in a bad spot with uair.. he's just better than you at aerials. I tend to keep horizontal distance and punish approaches by fully shielding keys/turtles. you have to be very patient because they have large, late hitboxes once G&W hits the ground..

 

[Crystanium]

G&W's up B boosts you up and above him -- you don't want to be there. He can put you in a bad spot with uair.. he's just better than you at aerials. I tend to keep horizontal distance and punish approaches by fully shielding keys/turtles. you have to be very patient because they have large, late hitboxes once G&W hits the ground..

U-air is trash against Samus. Seriously, just use your Bombs to take your time coming down. Unless you used your Screw Attack at the wrong time and you're returning, then you might have some trouble, depending on whether or not there is a platform you can land on to cancel out the state that you're in.

 

[Ravin]

@ noob - Apperently you dont play too many G&W's XD

 

[Sago]

upsmash ***** me on wifi but offline is not so scary

 

[n00b]

@ noob - Apperently you dont play too many G&W's XD

http://allisbrawl.com/brackets/bracket3489.gif

 

[Ravin]

Ive seen that already?
Point being, you have to be really slow to not react to G&W's running A

 

[n00b]

^ to be fair, I suppose you could say I don't play many G&Ws.. cuz leepuff was the first one I actually played @_@

i'll just go away and think of more troll threads

 

[Ravin]

I play plenty. It really goes down to experience.

 

[Royta]

@ everyone, Noob is right about the dash-attack punishment GaW can do. You'll never really see it coming since he'll hardly ever use it. I even got one when I was Ike and waiting for a safe time to come back on the edge.. that hitbox is huge and it will last insanely lang (way after he's retreated his head).

@ Dryn, that Falco video was a nice win! Liked the way how you just decided "screw it, i'm hanging on the edge till you come to me.." and I can't blame you.
Also downThrow is deadly against Samus because of our HORRIBLE roll i'd reckon ;(

But about GaW, one of my friends is (at least from the last tourny) the highest ranked GaW user so i'll just go by experience I had against him with Samus.
Our main weakness, killing, is a mixed bag against him. Because he's so light downtilt etc. will actually KILL (OMFG), but his recovery is so overpowered that you'll never spike him..EVER. He'll have to screw up really good before that will ever happen.

When he's recovering, spam homing missiles and try and 'grapple' hog him (is there even a word for that?)

The battle is going to have to be taken to you, so keep him at Zair's length and you should be safe =)
If he gets close, let alone gets you in the air, you are pretty much screwed ..

@ n00b, don't leave *-* we'll miss you </3

@ Ravin, NOW LOOK WHAT YOU"VE DONE T_T

 

[Cherry64]

so what is the matchup here? I personally have rarely played a good G&W so I'm going to stay out of this one. I'm about to fight a decent one so I can maybe pull something from this battel to add here but most likely something that's been already said

 

[Royta]

I'd go somewhere among the lines of 6-4.. not too sure though. We have the tools to annoy GaW, but once he gets in range he'll be able to pretty much beast us.

He's got beastly priority and lasting hitboxes, once he is in range we don't have that many options left I think ;/

 

[Ravin]

6-4 is fair enough, G&W favor.

 

[Royta]

Any thoughts on stages to bann and counterpicks?

I personally was thinking about banning battlefield (yeah BF ..) and going FD on this one. I remeber banning BF against GaW when I was still an Ike user and BF was Ike's best stage. GaW simply does too good there.
He really needs platforms I think, so FD might be a nice idea.
Any thoughts?

Also the GaW boards are done discussing Samus, but a bit too fast imo. With a bit more information i'll start on the write up.

 

[xXTACXx]

7-3 imo, i get ***** in this matchup online, even if its someone people i can beat can beat him. :\

 

[DelxDoom]

7-3 GW

Samus is too big and kinda slowish when moving in this matchup... GW's bair can go through missiles/zairs which is Samus's main asset. In the air, GW's nair beats Samus silly.

 

[Ravin]

Bair does not go threw Samus's Zair.

you drop a bomb for control to land. Which is what helps avoid, but not always, GaW's Nair. Which is helpful. It not a complete 7-3, its 6.5, 3.5 at the worst.

 

[Crystanium]

I'd go with 60-40, Mr. Game & Watch's favor. From my experience, Mr. Game & Watch hasn't been too difficult of an opponent to handle.

 

[Royta]

Does anyone have any extra bits of information or things that will help make this matchup easier? again Stage-banns and counterpicks come to mind.
I can 'guess' them but that wouldn't be too efficient

 

[Crystanium]

Maybe we can suspend the match-up discussion on Mr. Game & Watch until we get around to playing some more. I really don't have much else to say.

 

[Royta]

i'll start on the write-up, and later on we'll go back on it when we have some more firsthand experience =)

any suggestions for the next one? we could just go straight to hell and do Lucario.. or just go for Ike (the ike boards are pretty crowded so we should have nice input)

 

[The Milk Monster]

Lets do Ike.
That match up is really awesome, and the Ike boards are over populated as it is, so we'd get an input quick and easy.