• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Samus' Soap Box Social Thread

Vanguard

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
71
Location
MoCo, MD
It's a social thread until 3.0 drops and the real discussion can start! Bring your questions, your theory-crafting, your hype, your salt, and everything else here.


I'm gonna start. I'm Vanguard - PMBR Developer/Playtester. Been an exclusive Samus main since 64, and man am I glad to not have to keep such a tight lip about Project M Samus anymore!

What's your favorite thing you've seen about Samus so far? Have any predictions for how things are going to function? Have you already puzzled out Samus' ultimate meta-game just from watching the trailer? Bring it.
 

F. Blue

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
433
I propose that the super wavedash from now on be exclusively referred to as 'boost ball'.

PMBR should consider a small aesthetic touch to make it look more like a move and less like a glitch.
 

Veishi336

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Messages
215
Location
Decatur,GA
That ice beam addition is AMAZING. Questions tho: What properties will her new attacks, with the ice beam settings, be like? I see that the ice fair seems like it might hit downwards like mario's fair or maybe it might have a sweet spot for it and might work like peach's fair idk. I also so saw the ice dtilt used on charizard and instead of knocking the opponent upwards it seems to hit more forward. What can you say on those aspects of her?
 

Vanguard

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
71
Location
MoCo, MD
@KALLY WALLY
If you can't pick it out for yourself, I can't really confirm anything. I'm happy to clarify anything that was in the trailer. I'm more interested in presenting discussion points and driving conversation here. It's part of my market research, lol.

Samus/ZSS is still a mystery. You may notice we even cut the clip at the end of ZSS' Final Smash, so you can't know for sure if even that transforms her now. Hey, we could just be especially concerned about keeping secrets though ;D

As for me. I'll still play Lucario. My background is in Traditional Fighting Games, so Lucario has major appeal for me. I actually had a lot more competitive success in the TFG scene than I ever did with Smash. But there's something about Smash's fighter-platformer physics-heavy style that always struck me as having beautiful potential. Struggling more in this game than other TFGs also pulls at my competitive side. Project M's Lucario will always be enjoyable to me for all of those reasons. For as long as I enjoy Project M. I have a hard time imagining if I ever wont.

@GOBLINGAMKERKID
Sorry, I can't confirm or deny that. As you may of noticed, a lot of bomb play was left out of the trailer. I will say thought that you can probably identify other core features of other characters that went missing in the trailer. Hopefully you can balance right there on the edge of your seat until the 9th.

@F.BLUE
Speaking totally as an individual, and not as a PMBR member. I think that's a fantastic idea! We talk and awful lot about aesthetics in the PMBR. These debates can often last a long time due to the subjective nature of these things. A lot of market research has to be done to really come to a decision. That and can you imagine the technical difficulties of it? I can tell you this: Have you noticed how SWD works? It's not an animation, which means its not its own action. It's this 'crazy' momentum tech. You're in wait the whole time. So how are we going to tell the game to have special gfx while in SWD, and not have them disappear as soon as you touch another button? Maybe we've already cracked it. Stay tuned.

@VEISHI336
I can't tell you anything you didn't see, but take a hard look at what IS there. All of the Ice moves had alternative coverage / timings. Normal/Fire Fsmash had the new explosion bubble at the end of the gunarm. Ice Fsmash had a solid Ice casing around the gun arm. We can see it has less range, but that range is more like what were used to in Melee. Look at the differences between the two Fairs! And did you see that Ice Usmash? We only saw one move in action though. Dtilt. Look closely. It hit Zard more than one time, and then sent him off. Do you think Ice Dtilt will be the only Ice move to have on-hit properties different from their Fire counterparts?
 

MVP

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
641
how does her crawl work and can she super wave dash?

EDIT: and can she taunt cancel to change beams really fast?
 

Vanguard

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
71
Location
MoCo, MD
@MVP
Her Crawl functions like any other crawl. That's about as specific as I'll get.
Yes, Super Wave Dash is a thing. It was shown multiple times in the trailer.

I'm going to turn this one around. How would you feel about taunt canceled beam swaps? Given what you saw in the video, can you judge about how long a normal beam swap takes? Can you predict the consequences of allowing a near-instant beam swap, albeit one that requires a rather peculiar setup?
 

Veishi336

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Messages
215
Location
Decatur,GA
@VEISHI336
I can't tell you anything you didn't see, but take a hard look at what IS there. All of the Ice moves had alternative coverage / timings. Normal/Fire Fsmash had the new explosion bubble at the end of the gunarm. Ice Fsmash had a solid Ice casing around the gun arm. We can see it has less range, but that range is more like what were used to in Melee. Look at the differences between the two Fairs! And did you see that Ice Usmash? We only saw one move in action though. Dtilt. Look closely. It hit Zard more than one time, and then sent him off. Do you think Ice Dtilt will be the only Ice move to have on-hit properties different from their Fire counterparts?
Well that's completely understandable. Hmm multi hit proporties.....*ideas appear*.
Sidenote: i honestly thought that usmash was an utilt buuuut i see it isnt. That is one quick Usmash for samus
 

JacopeX

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
156
Location
Stamford, CT
My true main!!!

I see so much more combo/offensive potential with Samus than just bait for openings. I wonder if she can still missle spam cancel easily like in alpha lol.
 

Vanguard

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
71
Location
MoCo, MD
@VEISHI336
Is that a fast Usmash? I wonder if you'd be willing to watch that part of the trailer one frame at a time to confirm that.

@JACOPEX
You've played our Alpha builds? Just so I understand where your coming from, do you know about when you had the opportunity to playtest the developer builds?
 

Veishi336

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Messages
215
Location
Decatur,GA
ahh the multi hit properties of the ice go for both the Usmash (i know it's an upsmash) and the Fair. just looking at the separation of the effects....if im wrong then hey one can assume
 

F. Blue

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
433
From what I can take away, the two different beams are essentially two different characters, with mostly identical animations and different hitbox data, similar to Melee Mario/Dr. Mario, but also the ability to switch between them on command. Challenger Approaching: Ice Samus.

I'd choose to err on the side of restraint regarding taunt-cancelling beam switches, because two characters in one is already so risky for matchups. All switchable characters (Zelda/Shiek, Samus/ZSS) have noticeable lag on transforming, to do so near immediately so long as an edge is nearby would be overkill. Speaking of ZSS, if manual transformation stays for her that will make 3 Samus characters in one, which will be toxic to the premise of counterpicking. Unless all three characters are tweaked to make their strengths and weaknesses more uniform, I don't see it working.

EDIT: Also will there be an option to start the match with Ice Beam?
 

MVP

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
641
From what I can take away, the two different beams are essentially two different characters, with mostly identical animations and different hitbox data, similar to Melee Mario/Dr. Mario, but also the ability to switch between them on command. Challenger Approaching: Ice Samus.

I'd choose to err on the side of restraint regarding taunt-cancelling beam switches, because two characters in one is already so risky for matchups. All switchable characters (Zelda/Shiek, Samus/ZSS) have noticeable lag on transforming, to do so near immediately so long as an edge is nearby would be overkill. Speaking of ZSS, if manual transformation stays for her that will make 3 Samus characters in one, which will be toxic to the premise of counterpicking. Unless all three characters are tweaked to make their strengths and weaknesses more uniform, I don't see it working.

EDIT: Also will there be an option to start the match with Ice Beam?
my opinion is they should remove her ability to manually switch between zss in game. and her final smash transformation should also be removed. i also think we won't be able to start out with ice beam.
 

F. Blue

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
433
my opinion is they should remove her ability to manually switch between zss in game. and her final smash transformation should also be removed. i also think we won't be able to start out with ice beam.
There's absolutely no reason to remove the final smash transformation, because it will only ever be seen in a casual environment, where concepts like balance and counterpicking are meaningless. This is also the reason that I support Squirtle, Charizard, and Ivysaur's final smash being Pokemon Trainer hopping in and swapping them for another Pokemon; It appeals to a casual audience in a way that competitive players will never even notice because it has no bearing on them.
 

GigasOverlord

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
158
Location
British Columbia, Canada
One of the few things I'm wondering is if Samus can begin the match with Ice Beam equipped instead of having to switch to it. Similar to Zelda/Sheik in Melee, but with beams.

Also, does Ice Beam charge shot change from Power Beam charge shot? Maybe like a short freeze effect that pops enemies up for comboing if you follow up fast enough?
 

jtm94

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 16, 2013
Messages
1,384
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
I could almost imagine a frost shot of sorts. I didn't really notice if the ice beam does actual freezing? Could it be decent at ledge guarding/gimping? And super wavedesh is amazing. xD
 

QQQQQQQ7777777

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Messages
2,300
Samus/ZSS is still a mystery. You may notice we even cut the clip at the end of ZSS' Final Smash, so you can't know for sure if even that transforms her now. Hey, we could just be especially concerned about keeping secrets though ;D
I frame by framed it and I saw the power suit at the very last second of the final smash, but then again not all gameplay shown will be final, but considering you left that in the trailer, I can only assume you either recorded that a while ago or haven`t changed it yet.
 

Burnsy

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
1,167
Location
Phoenix, AZ
One of the few things I'm wondering is if Samus can begin the match with Ice Beam equipped instead of having to switch to it. Similar to Zelda/Sheik in Melee, but with beams.

Also, does Ice Beam charge shot change from Power Beam charge shot? Maybe like a short freeze effect that pops enemies up for comboing if you follow up fast enough?

Isn't Samus' charge shot always her default weapon, and the different beams are uncharged shots that she has to select?

Anyways, I know the PMBR already has difficulty editing articles. I'd be pretty surprised if you can have two versions of the same article via beam switch. I also would think that they'd be more likely to show shooting the ice beam in the trailer than other move changes brought on by the beam switch.
 

Burnsy

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
1,167
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Ice only.

If she got other beams, they'd have to readjust all of those same moves again to remain consistent. Juggling between using 3 or more altered movesets (even partially altered) via a taunt button may be difficult to utilize in a hectic game like PM
 

F. Blue

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
433
Wait a second, I missed it the first time but there IS a boost ball effect. Right before it says 'Samus can crawl!' she glows yellow and boosts just like in Metroid Prime. I wonder if that's just the crawl animation or an additional crawl attack a la Snake.
 

GigasOverlord

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
158
Location
British Columbia, Canada
Isn't Samus' charge shot always her default weapon, and the different beams are uncharged shots that she has to select?
vBrawl Samus is based on Super Metroid, in which Wave, Plasma, Ice, and Spazer were modular with Charge. I just figured that maybe "Doc Switching" would be possible with Samus as well.
 

MVP

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
641
There's absolutely no reason to remove the final smash transformation, because it will only ever be seen in a casual environment, where concepts like balance and counterpicking are meaningless. This is also the reason that I support Squirtle, Charizard, and Ivysaur's final smash being Pokemon Trainer hopping in and swapping them for another Pokemon; It appeals to a casual audience in a way that competitive players will never even notice because it has no bearing on them.

personally, i want to keep samus.

also, ice beam only effect 4 moves. D-tilt, f-smash, up-smash, and fair. so its not really a ''whole new character'' but i do see where your coming from
 

QQQQQQQ7777777

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Messages
2,300
personally, i want to keep samus.

also, ice beam only effect 4 moves. D-tilt, f-smash, up-smash, and fair. so its not really a ''whole new character'' but i do see where your coming from
and besides ice attributes, up-smash and fair are the only changed moves with the ice beam
 

MVP

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
641
what i can see so far:

-new running animation
-neutral b can charge in midair
-ice beam (effects D-tilt, f-smash, up-smash, and fair.)
-faster missile startup
- missile cancelling returns
-crawl
-crawl tilt (boost)
- superwavedash returns (with a 2 frame window!)
-no charge on melee dair
-up-air hitboxes tip adjusted?
- ssb4 f-smash
-up tilt has no knockback (shown at 3:03) i assume for comboing
-brawl zair
-melee taunt
- bombs explode on contact

They do explode on contact with a player *but* they currently hit and damage a shield once and then disappear without creating the actual explosion... this is something we're working on addressing but realistically won't be fixed for 3.0. =/ Sorry it isn't perfect yet but the explode on contact + overall bomb jump physics + SWD are still massive improvements.
 

br8k

Coolkid
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
111
Location
Charlottesville, VA
Best 5-day late birthday present / 16 day early Christmas present ever. I'm hyped about everything. Perhaps most hyped about ice uppercut and the applications thereof.
 

GunBlaze

Smash Lord
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
1,854
Location
Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic
Slippi.gg
GBLZ#778
what i can see so far:

-new running animation
-neutral b can charge in midair
-ice beam (affects D-tilt, f-smash, up-smash, and fair.)
-faster missile startup
- missile cancelling returns
-crawl
-crawl tilt (boost)
- superwavedash returns (with a 2 frame window!)
-64 dair
-up-air hitboxes tip adjusted?
- ssb4 f-smash and f-tilt
-brawl zair
-melee taunt
- bombs explode on contact

Fix'd
 

Sarix

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Messages
796
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
And now to prepare a document to jot down notes for when Samus is released. It'll be nice to have our armored heroine able to return to the fray.
 

GunBlaze

Smash Lord
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
1,854
Location
Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic
Slippi.gg
GBLZ#778
New info by YerocXx (reddit):

YerocXx said:
As you saw in the trailer, all of the attacks have substantial differences from the conventional versions. I won't burden you with needless technical details, but the Fsmash and Dtilt attacks basically have multiple hitboxes and slightly different coverage. Meanwhile the Usmash and Fair animations are completely different, and will have different uses that give Samus additional options.
 

MonkUnit

Project M Back Roomer
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
6,075
Location
Eau Claire, Wisconsin
Her Bair animation has been changed to match her Melee bair animation. For those that don't know the differences between Brawl's bair animation and Melee's, in Brawl, her leg was almost completely straight while Melee's had her leg at an angle. Melee's Bair allows you to hit higher up with it with things like runoff Bair and other situations.
 

vanhuynh16

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 27, 2012
Messages
68
Location
Texas
I'm pretty sure this has been asked, but I couldn't find it exactly. But I'm sure the wall grapple just almost impossible to code right? But I'm loving the all the Samus's differences!
 
Top Bottom