bovineblitzkrieg
Smash Journeyman
psst.
don't feed the trolls.
don't feed the trolls.
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Scar on the Melee vs Brawl debate: What does competitive really mean?
- Thread starter Scar
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Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
^^Then what am I going to do with my 4 50 pound bags of Jasmine rice per visit from Sams Club.
You are going to throw them at passing cars, or drop them from the roofs of tall buildings onto the heads of unsuspecting people.
DarkKnight077
Smash Lord
When camping is involved in a fighting game it's no longer a fighting a game.
tedward2000
Smash Champion
Nice thread scar, grats to you.
For personal context, in the sense of competitiveness both melee and brawl has various aspects.
But Brawl can be agreed is less competitive then melee, which has been stated many times.
So then take this, and a new kid that just touched brawl for the first time.
Brawl doesn't have the advanced tech's like melee, but both run the same way. For example, "Kid" can learn to play both games respectively just by brawl. So later, if "Kid" wants to then become more completive, pro, and join tournaments he can. (Based on what I know, there are more melee tourny's then brawl ones running at the moment.) So "kid" will go to melee, and play/practice/learn the advanced things that were not in brawl, to compete in more tournaments.
So what Im saying is, competitively: brawl is a pre-melee and melee is the next ring.
For personal context, in the sense of competitiveness both melee and brawl has various aspects.
But Brawl can be agreed is less competitive then melee, which has been stated many times.
So then take this, and a new kid that just touched brawl for the first time.
Brawl doesn't have the advanced tech's like melee, but both run the same way. For example, "Kid" can learn to play both games respectively just by brawl. So later, if "Kid" wants to then become more completive, pro, and join tournaments he can. (Based on what I know, there are more melee tourny's then brawl ones running at the moment.) So "kid" will go to melee, and play/practice/learn the advanced things that were not in brawl, to compete in more tournaments.
So what Im saying is, competitively: brawl is a pre-melee and melee is the next ring.
arrowhead
Smash Ace
go away please
Camping exists in all fighting games, it's just not as effective in some as it is in others.
SiegKnight
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2008
- Messages
- 323
truxoff, I was being sarcastic, obviously.
And even if it does turn around, it'll always be a defensive game and no one into melee will conform to it. Besides, lack of histun, tripping and other inherently nuisance mechanics won't dissapear via more playing.
I suppose this falls under the category of feeding the troll, but I'd like to feed him some conclusive logic to see if he still spits back at it, at which point nothing he says will be worth noticing as even a nuisance.
And even if it does turn around, it'll always be a defensive game and no one into melee will conform to it. Besides, lack of histun, tripping and other inherently nuisance mechanics won't dissapear via more playing.
I suppose this falls under the category of feeding the troll, but I'd like to feed him some conclusive logic to see if he still spits back at it, at which point nothing he says will be worth noticing as even a nuisance.
DarkKnight077
Smash Lord
..It's called trutling.
10 char.
Make sure you know what you are talking about.
20 mudkipz.
Turtling is not camping.
I was just asking a simple question as to how you became so cool. Brawl is awful and everyone knows it, I'm not saying it's good. What I am saying is that I think you are cool, and most everyone would agree with me. Not to mention that many people have told me that you are a god at smash brothers, and I am inclined to believe them after having read your posts.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
^^Brawl is not awefull. It's just not nearly as good as melee. That is all.
SiegKnight
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2008
- Messages
- 323
Troll (Internet)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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"Do not feed the trolls" and its abbreviation DNFTT redirects here. For the Wikipedia essay, see Wikipedia:What is a troll?
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]
Contents
[hide]
* 1 Etymology
o 1.1 Early history
o 1.2 Trolling in the 1990s
* 2 Identity trolling
* 3 Usage
* 4 Concern troll
* 5 See also
* 6 References
* 7 External links
o 7.1 Troll FAQs
[edit] Etymology
The contemporary use of the term first appeared on Usenet groups in the late 1980s. It is thought to be a truncation of the phrase trolling for suckers, itself derived from the fishing technique known as trolling.[3] The word likely gained currency because of its apt second meaning, drawn from the trolls portrayed in Scandinavian folklore and children's tales; they are often ugly, obnoxious creatures bent on mischief and wickedness.
The word occurs also in John Awdeley’s Fraternity of Vagabonds (1561) to characterize the first four of twenty-five types of disobedient male servants or "knaves." The first entrant in Awdeley's list is particularly illustrative, although no provenance has ever been demonstrated to connect it with the modern usage:
Troll and Troll by is he that setteth naught by no man, nor no man by him. This is he that would bear rule in a place and hath no authority nor thanks, and at last is thrust out of the door like a knave.[4]
[edit] Early history
Prior to DejaNews's archiving of Usenet, accounts of trolling were sketchy, there being little evidence to sort through. After that time, however, the huge archives were available for researchers. Perhaps the earliest (although poorly-documented) case is the 1982-83 saga of Alex and Joan from the CompuServe forums. Lindsy Van Gelder, a reporter for Ms. magazine, documented the incident in 1985 in an article for her publication. Alex (in real life, a shy 50-year-old male psychiatrist from New York) pretended to be a highly bombastic, anti-religious, post-car-accident, wheelchair-bound, mute woman named Joan, "in order to better relate to his female patients." This went on for two years, and Joan had become a hugely detailed character, with an array of emotional relationships. These only began to fall apart after Joan coaxed an online friend of hers into an affair with Alex.
Even those who barely knew Joan felt implicated — and somehow betrayed — by Alex's deception. Many of us on-line like to believe that we're a utopian community of the future, and Alex's experiment proved to us all that technology is no shield against deceit. We lost our innocence, if not our faith.[5]
Note: this incident can be considered a case of "trolling" only when the word is applied in its broadest sense to any unsavory action involving the Internet.
[edit] Trolling in the 1990s
The most likely derivation of the word troll can be found in the phrase "trolling for newbies," popularized in the early 1990s in the Usenet group, alt.folklore.urban (AFU).[6][7] Commonly, what is meant is a relatively gentle inside joke by veteran users, presenting questions or topics that had been so overdone that only a new user would respond to them earnestly. For example, a veteran of the group might make a post on the common misconception that glass flows over time. Long-time readers would both recognize the poster's name and know that the topic had been done to death already, but new subscribers to the group would not realise, and would thus respond. These types of trolls served as a Shibboleth to identify group insiders. This definition of trolling, considerably narrower than the modern understanding of the term, was considered a positive contribution.[8][6] One of the most notorious AFU trollers, Snopes,[6] went on to create his eponymous urban folklore website.
By the late 1990s, alt.folklore.urban had such heavy traffic and participation that trolling of this sort was frowned upon. Others expanded the term to include the practice of playing a seriously misinformed or deluded user, even in newsgroups where one was not a regular; these were often attempts at humor rather than provocation. In such contexts, the noun troll usually referred to an act of trolling, rather than to the author.
Recently, the word troll is also frequently used as a synonym for flamebait, even though the two words have distinct meanings.[citation needed]
[edit] Identity trolling
In academic literature, the practice was first documented by Judith Donath (1999), who used several anecdotal examples from various Usenet newsgroups in her discussion. Donath's paper outlines the ambiguity of identity in a disembodied "virtual community":[9]
In the physical world there is an inherent unity to the self, for the body provides a compelling and convenient definition of identity. The norm is: one body, one identity. ... The virtual world is different. It is composed of information rather than matter.
Donath provides a concise overview of identity deception games which trade on the confusion between physical and epistemic community:
Trolling is a game about identity deception, albeit one that is played without the consent of most of the players. The troll attempts to pass as a legitimate participant, sharing the group's common interests and concerns; the newsgroups members, if they are cognizant of trolls and other identity deceptions, attempt to both distinguish real from trolling postings, and upon judging a poster a troll, make the offending poster leave the group. Their success at the former depends on how well they — and the troll — understand identity cues; their success at the latter depends on whether the troll's enjoyment is sufficiently diminished or outweighed by the costs imposed by the group.
Trolls can be costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice, and damage the feeling of trust in the newsgroup community. Furthermore, in a group that has become sensitized to trolling — where the rate of deception is high — many honestly naïve questions may be quickly rejected as trollings. This can be quite off-putting to the new user who upon venturing a first posting is immediately bombarded with angry accusations. Even if the accusation is unfounded, being branded a troll is quite damaging to one's online reputation." (Donath, 1999, p. 45)[1]
[edit] Usage
The term troll is highly subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial. The term is often erroneously used to discredit an opposing position, or its proponent, by argument fallacy ad hominem.
Often, calling someone a troll makes assumptions about a writer's motives. Regardless of the circumstances, controversial posts may attract a particularly strong response from those unfamiliar with the robust dialogue found in some online, rather than physical, communities. Experienced participants in online forums know that the most effective way to discourage a troll is usually to ignore him or her, because responding encourages a true troll to continue disruptive posts — hence the often-seen warning: "Please do not feed the trolls".[10]
Frequently, someone who has been labelled a troll by a group may seek to redeem their reputation by discrediting their opponents, for example by claiming that other members of the group are closed-minded, conspirators, or trolls themselves.
[edit] Concern troll
A concern troll is a pseudonym created by a user whose point of view is opposed to the one that the user's sockpuppet claims to hold. The concern troll posts in web forums devoted to its declared point of view and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals, but with professed "concerns". The goal is to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt within the group.[11]
For example, in 2006 a top staffer for then-Congressman Charlie Bass (R-NH) was caught posing as a "concerned" supporter of Bass's opponent, Democrat, Paul Hodes on several liberal New Hampshire blogs, using the pseudonyms "IndieNH" or "IndyNH." "IndyNH" expressed concern that Democrats might just be wasting their time or money on Hodes, because Bass was unbeatable.[12]
[edit] See also
* Astroturfing
* Baiting (Internet)
* Breaching experiment
* Forumwarz
* Gadfly (social)
* Griefer
* Hit-and-run posting
* Ostracism
* Schadenfreude
* Sockpuppet (Internet)
* Virtual community
[edit] References
1. ^ trolling definition from PC Magazine Retrieved on 28 May 2007.
2. ^ "What is a troll?" - Indiana University Knowledge Base
3. ^ Usenet Newsgroup misc.invest.options 1997
4. ^ Kinney, Arthur F., ed. Rogues, Vagabonds, and Sturdy Beggars. Amherst: University of Massachusetts Press, 1990. p. 98
5. ^ Van Gelder, Lindsy (1996), "The Strange Case of the Electronic Lover," in Charles Dunlop and Rob Kling, ed, Computerization and Controversy: Value Conflicts and Social Choices, 2nd ed, San Diego: Academic Press, 1996. p.534 (originally published in Ms. Magazine, October 1985)
6. ^ a b c See Michele Tepper, "Usenet Communities and the Cultural Politics of Information" in David Porter, ed., Internet Culture (1997) at 48 ("[T]he two most notorious trollers in AFU, Ted Frank and snopes, are also two of the most consistent posters of serious research.").
7. ^ One early reference to troll found in the Google Usenet archive was by user "Mark Miller," directed toward the user "Tad," on February 8, 1990, saying "Just go die in your sleep you mindless flatulent troll." However, it is unclear if this instance represents a usage of "troll" as it is known today, or if it was simply a chance choice of epithet.
8. ^ Cecil Adams (2000-05-14). The Straight Dope. Retrieved on 2007-08-26. “To be fair, not all trolls are slimeballs. On some message boards, veteran posters with a mischievous bent occasionally go "newbie trolling.”
9. ^ Identity and Deception in the Virtual Community
10. ^ Example of a warning to blog participants about trolls: "do not feed the trolls." golo historians_13th's blog. Retrieved on: April 10, 2008.
11. ^ Cox, Ana Marie. "Making Mischief on the Web", Time, 2006-12-16. Retrieved on 2007-03-30.
12. ^ Saunders, Anne. "Bass aide resigns after posing as opponent's supporter online", Boston Globe, Associated Press, 2006-09-26. Retrieved on 2007-03-30.
[edit] External links
Look up troll in
Wiktionary, the free dictionary.
Wikimedia Commons has media related to:
Trolls (Internet)
* Unconvential approach of feeding trolls, not killing them by Henk van Ess
* Article on trolls and the 'art' of trolling by Steve Myers
* Adequacy.org: Archive of Adequacy.org, a troll site.
* What is a troll? from the Straight Dope
* Trolling lore and essays
* Searching for Safety Online: Managing "Trolling" in a Feminist Forum
* Best guide to the various types of trolls
* Ubuntu Forums guide to types of trolls
* Interview with a self-proclaimed Troll by Lord M'Deentor
[edit] Troll FAQs
* urban75 Trolling FAQ: Comprehensive guide to the dark art of trolling
* alt.troll FAQ (how-to)
* alt.syntax.tactical FAQ
* False repentance at MeatballWiki
* The relationship between social context cues and uninhibited verbal behavior in computer-mediated communication
* Moral panic and alternative identity construction in Usenet
* Giveen's Guide To Internet Trolls
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29"
Categories: Internet culture | Internet terminology | Internet forum terminology | Internet trolling | Popular psychology | Internet slang
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Artery_Clogger
Smash Apprentice
lol at linking the whole article. Also Brawl is awful, not just awful compared to Melee.
chansen
Smash Lord
^lame^
i didnt sign in to read about how much you like wikipedia.
brawl is practice for melee. my falcon and weej have never been better than they are now and i play way more brawl. tapion was a good idol i suppose.
i didnt sign in to read about how much you like wikipedia.
brawl is practice for melee. my falcon and weej have never been better than they are now and i play way more brawl. tapion was a good idol i suppose.
Endless Nightmares
Smash Master
Wow this thread is like a huge circle and I've already watched it go around at least a dozen times.
Fletch
Smash Master
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
*Psst* You haven't gotten better. Your friends have gotten worse.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7WrRfqJPOYM
The manliest video on the internet.
The manliest video on the internet.
arrowhead
Smash Ace
holy crap i just grew another testicle
bovineblitzkrieg
Smash Journeyman
OH MAN the double raptor boost to double knee is SICK
those foxes and that marth have no idea how to deal with a 2v1
i know they could barely move, but still...
those foxes and that marth have no idea how to deal with a 2v1
i know they could barely move, but still...
Clai
Smash Lord
I am ashamed of being a Brawl player now.
That video needed more Falcon punches. If that happened, I would have probably went to a bar , go into a dancing rampage and slept with every woman there. Then I would have watched that video again and watch as the manliness crush all the STDs.
Ugh. I NEED A MELEE COMMUNITY!
That video needed more Falcon punches. If that happened, I would have probably went to a bar , go into a dancing rampage and slept with every woman there. Then I would have watched that video again and watch as the manliness crush all the STDs.
Ugh. I NEED A MELEE COMMUNITY!
thumbswayup
Smash Master
I'm at work so I can't see that video right now, but I'll watch it when I get home.
Melee for life. This debate is done.
edit: saw the vid, that **** was ****.
Melee for life. This debate is done.
edit: saw the vid, that **** was ****.
curiousthoughtsbear
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2007
- Messages
- 159
How bout this, why don't we as the smashboards conglomerate of competitive smashers petition against brawl and overflow Nintendo co. with mail of all sorts protesting the game and its content.
Then we may have a chance at rectifying the situation, i.e. Nintendo fabricates a new game along the lines of MELEE ONLINE w/ extra sweet and flawless multiplayer mode.
This may just be a joke but, LOL, it could actually work.
>>>>>>>>>Reference to Shawshank Redemption anyone <<<<<<<<<<
Then we may have a chance at rectifying the situation, i.e. Nintendo fabricates a new game along the lines of MELEE ONLINE w/ extra sweet and flawless multiplayer mode.
This may just be a joke but, LOL, it could actually work.
>>>>>>>>>Reference to Shawshank Redemption anyone <<<<<<<<<<
thesage
Smash Hero
I actually had hope for brawl. Until I realized how gay the cg is against Ness and Lucas and makes them unplayable.
DarkKnight077
Smash Lord
I saw that vid. :] It's more manlier than Snake.
BIG C
Smash Master
*stands up, claps wildly for about 5 mins, sits back down.*
WAY TO GO CACTUAR TOOO FUXIN GOOD!!!!!
DarkKnight077
Smash Lord
Clai
Smash Lord
So it was you that was at the Ponchy Cinco's last night? Umm, just to say, it wasn't just women you were sleeping with last night. That video may have wiped out the inadvertant gayness, but my friend needs to have a word with you.
I got owned by Darknight.
hey dude i heard you killed mufasa.
not cool man.
not cool.
not cool man.
not cool.
Rhubarbo
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2007
- Messages
- 2,035
XD Gimpy! Btw, you haven't posted any videos in a loooong time!
Runeblade279
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2008
- Messages
- 154
FalconPunch
Smash Journeyman
No he definitely footstooled him.
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
SiegKnight
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2008
- Messages
- 323
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDZRnphJBvo past 20 seconds. You're all less manly.
wow. scarjump knee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> piece of crap ugly almost random footstool jumping.
- Status