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Screen Lag Helpfull?

Ramo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Messages
48
Location
Worcester, MA
I don't know if it helps... but I just recently found out my tv had lag, so when I switched over, it made me 10x better. All my friends refuse to play on the smaller screen though =(
 

ajp_anton

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Messages
1,462
Location
Stockholm
I'd say it's the opposite. Lag limits things you can do on reaction, so you get used to playing like "I can't do this anyway so why bother".
 

Upke

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
429
Location
Savannah, GA / Cary, NC
I think it just causes bad habits. I have a LCD at home on which I can pretty consistently SWD, but I rarely get it on my friend's CRT because I got used to the delay.
 

SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
4,968
My friend played Melee for as long as I knew him on an HDTV, he played Falco and was better than me a lot of the time (we mostly did Falco dittos). When I went to his house the lag was there but not horrible (I've been to three other friends houses with horrible lag HDTVs, his had the least) so eventually I got use to it to a certain degree, and then each time I went over I would have a certain starting point of getting re-use to it again until we played an hour and I reached my maximum I could get on it.

When he went to my house and played on my CRT though he said he could slightly feel the difference, said it felt good but he wasn't amazed or anything by it. He seemed to be able to play the same, though I think he had a tad of adjustment to do, but it seemed like 2/3 or less of what I was feeling with his TV in terms of adjustment degree.

I started playing P:M wifi v1 and v2 during some of the later times I went to his house, it kind of made me better at the lag but it's still very different than the lag on wifi: the lag on wifi I could adjust to easier.

The only thing in terms of reaction was that I could get up-throw rest on his Falco with Puff and he usually wouldn't DI to escape it in time, either I was better at it than he was or the lag made it worse. I can't really remember all the details.

So are Laggy Tvs and Wifi detrimental? Probably. Are you enjoying the game more because the screen is so big (use component cables noobs) or because Wifi makes it so convenient to play people all the time? Then it's more beneficial if it's getting you to play. Playing Wifi doesn't have any kind of "oh no it ruined all of my skill" thing, your technical skill stays really in tact when you go offline (hell I might even say it makes you slightly more technical when you go offline sometimes). What is changed though, like other people's posts describe, isn't your tech skill but your tactics. If you start learning the game through Wifi first before offline, it's similar in a way to learning Brawl and then switching to Melee, obvious tactics you might know are wifi only but there's a lot of subtle stuff that you might not catch. There IS a difference between Wifi and HDTV lag though, in Wifi you can sometimes DI better due to the game actually being slowed down, while on HDTVs you might just lose a bunch of opportunities to DI. I still think that there MIGHT be some things that DO get more "able to predict" or whatever like the silly guy on the Wiki wrote, but if anything I think you get that more from Wifi since it's slowed down as well as laggy so it's like your in training mode on half speed, but I'm not sure what to say about the HDTV's lag aspect.
 
S

Somaiah

Guest
People do know gamecubes have progressive scan for HD right?
I only realized how OP component cables could be recently, ordered them yesterday to see how well they lived up to the hype, upscalers seem too costly to invest in without more experimentation.

Also, this thread should have been over after the first and second reply, how can limiting reaction time unreasonably or forcing predictions over reactions? You don't see pros making hard reads every 5 seconds (jk, Darkrain where u at?), real good players like M2K capitalize with jab resets and legit techchases rather than a guess.
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
541
Location
New York
Screen lag is *never* helpful.
It is tolerable, however, if you are not a technical player, or if you are a casual player. But for spacies, screen lag renders you almost useless in terms of competitive play.
 

SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
4,968
Screen lag is *never* helpful.
It is tolerable, however, if you are not a technical player, or if you are a casual player. But for spacies, screen lag renders you almost useless in terms of competitive play.
I feel you're basing that off Wifi and not HDTVs

On horrible lag HDTVs the entire game is unplayable and Marth is the best basically (CF also was able to put in some work by just Kneeing people). On tolerable lag HDTVs Spacies own almost extra hard
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
541
Location
New York
Really? Because I have a Panasonic Viera (which supposedly have no lag)
and I cannot play spacies on the tv, nor can anyone else I know.
I don't even have Wifi.
 

SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
4,968
Really? Because I have a Panasonic Viera (which supposedly have no lag)
and I cannot play spacies on the tv, nor can anyone else I know.
I don't even have Wifi.
u talking about Melee or P:M? I'm talkijg Melee
 

Jabejazz

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
631
Location
:V
NNID
jabejazz
3DS FC
2079-8507-3496
This was over at smashwiki under the screen lag section. http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Lag#Screen_Lag
" In fact, some players intentionally practice on a screen with a delay to improve their reaction time and predicting skills."
Is there any truth to this statement?
"In fact, some players intentionally practice on a screen with a delay" is the truth in that statement you're looking for. The rest is ********.
Don't get me wrong, I play on a LCD screen with minimal lag at home(around 4 ms, so less than 1/4 of a frame) but screw me over and call me Nancy if that'll ever improve anything at all about my game.
 

Jabejazz

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
631
Location
:V
NNID
jabejazz
3DS FC
2079-8507-3496
Not exactly sure how I could check if my TV has lag associated with it, but I've played on friends TV's and there hasn't been a difference in my skill at all.
Usually, you plug your TV and a CRT on the same console and check if the image displayed is exactly the same. There are also tests on computer just for that. You use a CRT because it requires no time to process the image and display pixels, as HD screens do. Plasma screens processing time is absolutely trivial (nearly 0.001 ms) while some LCD can take over 50 ms (3 frames of delay!).
 

Kadano

Magical Express
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
2,160
Location
Vienna, Austria
So much misinformation in this thread.

1. The wikia is long dead. It's not moderated any longer; no wonder noobs are putting their garbage thoughts in articles and get away with it. The current wiki has much less mistakes.
2. "People do know gamecubes have progressive scan for HD right?" No. Progressive scan on gamecubes (and Wiis) is 480p. HD can be 1080p, 1080i or 720p. But never 480p.

Screen lag is never helpful. For example, most grabs in Melee come out at frame 7. Human reaction time can be as low as 100ms, so reacting to grabs is possible with training. However, LCDs that have 7 frames lag will make it completely impossible to react to grabs. As soon as you can see the grab animation start, you're actually already grabbed. Even with an impossible 1 ms reaction time, you could not react to it.
 

Kink-Link5

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
6,232
Location
Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum
So much misinformation in this thread.

1. The wikia is long dead. It's not moderated any longer; no wonder noobs are putting their garbage thoughts in articles and get away with it. The current wiki has much less mistakes.
2. "People do know gamecubes have progressive scan for HD right?" No. Progressive scan on gamecubes (and Wiis) is 480p. HD can be 1080p, 1080i or 720p. But never 480p.

Screen lag is never helpful. For example, most grabs in Melee come out at frame 7. Human reaction time can be as low as 100ms, so reacting to grabs is possible with training. However, LCDs that have 7 frames lag will make it completely impossible to react to grabs. As soon as you can see the grab animation start, you're actually already grabbed. Even with an impossible 1 ms reaction time, you could not react to it.
I always wondered why the **** anyone would even go to the old wiki.
 
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