Luxor
Smash Champion
Lately I've been curious about SJR and how it works. Let me start by saying that ISJR (Infinite... SJR) is a silly term, since all it is is SJR'ing over and over thanks to the fact that the double jump + certain aerial combination seems to set up for SJR quite nicely.
Required viewing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmbLWN9NM-8&NR=1
Suggested reading: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=173119&highlight=isjr
Basic facts about SJR if you don't know:
Now onto my test method and findings. Credits to the King of Evil for making this possible.
Method: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=269540&highlight=isjr
Ganon's SJR is (relatively) easy to perform, although as far as I can tell, you do only have one frame to do it. If you have your Wii handy, I would suggest trying this a few times. Just jump-->buffered DJ-->Uair-->mash jump buttons and get another jump. After that you can start linking that second DJ (the SJR) into another Uair and "ISJR."
It's very doable, you'll likely succeed in under a minute. Doing it consistently is another story, but whatever.
It's when you do ^this^ in frame advance that stuff starts to get serious. I'm using one of Veril's input maps to describe this, since there's really no other way.
What this implies right here:
In all seriousness, there is one other mind-blowing effect that happens when you do this. Try it, but don't DJ Frame 51. Just wait and see what happens. Watch Frame 51... now advance to Frame 52...
Did you see that?
Nothing! That's right, Ganon does nothing! It kind of blows my mind even though it's so simple, but from Frame 51 to Frame 52 Ganon doesn't fall. News to me.
rPSI found out what's up with this strange 2-frame nonfall state. Turns out it is the key to SJR.
The Way Forward
Now that we know you have to use an aerial with an animation X frames long X frames above the ground, it's a relatively simple matter to find combinations of Buffered DJ + Aerial that will result in an SJR. Any aerial can be timed frame perfectly to work, but for practical purposes we're looking for the *relatively* simple ones, like Ganon's Uair SJR used as an example in this thread. That one doesn't rely on timing at all, only quickness of inputs and buffering- it's easy to do, about as hard to master as some of Fox/Falco's laser techs (totally possible with a bit of practice) and has legit gameplay applications. It won't work as a brickwall, but it definitely has great mixup potential for some characters, if we find an easy combination of inputs for them to use.
Pending Questions and Investigations
Major credit to rPSI for looking into this, whoever's Youtube video that was, Makkun for the old resource, and DLA for making public the easiest SJR I know of.
Updates to come!
Required viewing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmbLWN9NM-8&NR=1
Suggested reading: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=173119&highlight=isjr
Basic facts about SJR if you don't know:
- It refreshes and then uses your double jump
- It can be done out of ANY aerial, as long as the aerial starts at a sufficient height
- Looping SJR's (ISJR) only occurs with certain aerials that end quick enough out of the DJ to allow you to SJR again.
- This thing is super weird.
Now onto my test method and findings. Credits to the King of Evil for making this possible.
Method: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=269540&highlight=isjr
Ganon's SJR is (relatively) easy to perform, although as far as I can tell, you do only have one frame to do it. If you have your Wii handy, I would suggest trying this a few times. Just jump-->buffered DJ-->Uair-->mash jump buttons and get another jump. After that you can start linking that second DJ (the SJR) into another Uair and "ISJR."
still a stupid term
It's when you do ^this^ in frame advance that stuff starts to get serious. I'm using one of Veril's input maps to describe this, since there's really no other way.
Code:
Ganon's Uair SJR
Frame:Millisecond timer _(space)_ Input/Effect
00:00 Input jump (FH or SH)
07:88 Input DJ
08:86 Airborne, DJ occurs. Input Uair.
42:30 FAF after Uair
51:15 Input DJ
52:13 SJR occurs
53:11 Input Uair to loop back to 8. If you didn't SJR, this is the landing frame.
- SJR does not occur by DJ'ing during autocancel frames.
- This tech is not boring.
- Ganon has multiple methods of flight.
In all seriousness, there is one other mind-blowing effect that happens when you do this. Try it, but don't DJ Frame 51. Just wait and see what happens. Watch Frame 51... now advance to Frame 52...
Did you see that?
Nothing! That's right, Ganon does nothing! It kind of blows my mind even though it's so simple, but from Frame 51 to Frame 52 Ganon doesn't fall. News to me.
rPSI found out what's up with this strange 2-frame nonfall state. Turns out it is the key to SJR.
Quick rewording for those of you who don't speak PSA, it means that when an aerial's animation (not the aerial itself) ends, the game thinks you're falling, even though you'd normally be landing. Since the game wants to say you're landing but thinks you're falling, you get your second jump renewed by "landing" and can use it immediately since you're still airborne, more or less. This is an oversimplification but it explains it well enough.Alright so here are some fun things (BTW thanks for providing me the frame map Lux). Ganon's U-air has 44 frames of animation. It takes exactly 44 frames from Ganon's Double Jump to land. From there I made the conclusion that it was likely that the requirement animation end to falling state was included in the fighter.pac part. It indeed was. So I decided to investigate.
Here is the subroutine in fighter.pac that contains the landing lag. It is called during an aerial while it is being performed. When the animation of the aerial is finished, it must abide by these rules. Since the aerial has finished its animation, it is forced to go into fall, since it comes before the actual landing coding. This means that if the animation ends right as you would hit the ground, you will go into fall state instead of landing. From in the falling state is when you would land. Now, the thing is, the game registers landing and hitting the stage differently. When you hit the stage, you get your jumps back, which is what happens at the end of the aerial, however, you are still in falling, so you can input another double jump.Code:Subroutine@22BA0 -----------|START|-------------------------- !Controller-02! 07020000 Change Action - ID=0xE, Requirement=Animation End, Subroutine - Offset=@B064, Subroutine - Offset=@B2CC, Change Action(Status) - StatusID=0x272C, ID=0x18, Requirement=On Ground, Additional Requirement - Requirement=Bit is Set, Variable=RA-Bit[30], Selective IASA - IASA=0x9, Concurrent Infinite Loop - 0x9, @22B70, ----------------------------|END|-----------
Hurrah!
I can't really make this much clearer, you get the same thingy going on with Bowser's Koopa Klaw, this time as a result of the coding of the move itself rather than its animation. I think it's kosher to call this an SJR, since it does renew your second jump, even though the mechanic is a bit different.So I looked at Bowser's side-b. It seems to be a coding error. lol
See how when he's on the ground he goes into Falling (E). That let's him do the exact thing I described to you happen.Code:Action0x11D @1B308 SpecialSAirCatch, -----------|START|-------------------------- !Posture-03! 05030000 !Posture-04! 05040000 !Character Specific-01! 0C010000 Change Subaction - SpecialSAirCatch Edge Sticky - 0x5, Set Air/Ground - 0xA, Change Action - ID=0xE, Requirement=On Ground, Change Action - ID=0xE, Requirement=Animation End, ----------------------------|END|-----------
The Way Forward
Now that we know you have to use an aerial with an animation X frames long X frames above the ground, it's a relatively simple matter to find combinations of Buffered DJ + Aerial that will result in an SJR. Any aerial can be timed frame perfectly to work, but for practical purposes we're looking for the *relatively* simple ones, like Ganon's Uair SJR used as an example in this thread. That one doesn't rely on timing at all, only quickness of inputs and buffering- it's easy to do, about as hard to master as some of Fox/Falco's laser techs (totally possible with a bit of practice) and has legit gameplay applications. It won't work as a brickwall, but it definitely has great mixup potential for some characters, if we find an easy combination of inputs for them to use.
Pending Questions and Investigations
What's up with that 2-frame non-fall state? Is this state the key to being able to SJR?Figured out by rPSIWe need more input maps for other characters SJR's.What we need now is every character's Buffered DJ data, since by combining that with animation duration for aerials we can quantitatively determine EASY ways to SJR.What's the deal with Bowser's KK? Needs more looking into. I'm not convinced this and Klaw Hopping are the same mechanic anymore.Figured out by rPSI- Are there any easy ways/tricksies in the same vein as these to incorporate this in a real match? Any stages with platform layouts that make certain SJR's real easy?
^This is the most important part IMO, actual possible gameplay applications (I'm not super optimistic, but...) With every character's Buffered DJ data, it'll be simple to find SJR's that work on flat ground. I think Battlefield in particular has platforms that would be interesting to SJR around. Once again, we know it's possible to do it on plats with timing, but we want to eliminate the timing and just SJR by mashing buttons. Doesn't require frame perfection that way. Well it does, but in inputs rather than timing.
Major credit to rPSI for looking into this, whoever's Youtube video that was, Makkun for the old resource, and DLA for making public the easiest SJR I know of.
Updates to come!