Secondaries for Lucario

[Drizzt6195]

Hi everybody while going to the peach forums I saw a very interesting discussion http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200253 so i'll try to make a nice list of secondary's for lucario.

So secondaries are used to counter your counter so first of all let's see our counter :
-King Dedede, He can CG you, Waddle>AS so you need to approach and there **** happens with his grap, is Bair is good also ...
-Olimar, Pikmin Omg
-G&W, he gets Ko'ed at 100 he Ko's you at 100, very bad for lucario
-Marth, Fair> to any Lucair

So before you say anything, no Mk secondaries or it'll be too easy

So first secondary I can think of for this week is Marth.

Marth Vs G&W :
A easy match as long as you can predict G1W and counter, not very hard considering G&W moves are quite telegraph. Marths Smash outranges G&W Smash. You can also Ftitlt his pancakes.

Marth Vs DDD :
Little disavantage for marth, but not that bad, can approach with SHfair. You can Cg him at 0% and Fsmash and always use your counter on his upB if he doesnt cancels it.

Marth Vs Olimar:
Never played with Marth against an Olimar, but SHfair approach, the matchup is 60:40 for marth so good (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5496150 matchup discussion Marth vs Olimar)

Marth Vs Marth :
Mirror match

Learning curve :
Marth isn't difficult at all to learn to play, he's quite similar to lucario IMO, it took me 1-2 days to learn him.


So what do you think? Give him a mark as a secondary =D

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I disagree with half your bad matchups, namely Olimar, who gives Lucario a free, powerful approach every time he tries to camp with Pikmin Throw. The double team will be blocked, but the attack is often used into other things, such as grabs. By the way, in spite of what you may hear, you SHOULD use DT against Olimar; anyone who tells you otherwise has questionable matchup knowledge at best.

D3 is a freaking sandbag once he's in the air. He's huge, and has limitted recovery options, most of them ending in a face full of aura. His recovery has range, but is extremely punishable, especially by Lucario.

Marth is a matter of playing defencive and baiting his approaches. He has a lot of attacks that are more punishable than ours, and aura sphere can force him to do something punishable.

With that in mind, I would use Snake against GW and Marth, arguably the tougher of the two.

If you have trouble with D3 and Olimar, Pikachu is by far the best option. Pikachu is pretty much one of Olimar's toughest matchups, and hard-counters D3.

 

[Drizzt6195]

Peach best counter for Olimar
Ddd may be a sandbag in the air but how do you get him in the air
Dt will be shielded against any good olimar and yeah free throw

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Peach best counter for Olimar
Ddd may be a sandbag in the air but how do you get him in the air
Dt will be shielded against any good olimar and yeah free throw

Exactly. Olimar shields, you get a free throw. Just grab out of DT, I've never had this countered, let alone with any regularity. Besides, you don't have to be that predictable, the Olimar must expect your DT pretty far in advance if he plans on doing more than a shield.

 

[Samuelson]

I disagree with half your bad matchups, namely Olimar, who gives Lucario a free, powerful approach every time he tries to camp with Pikmin Throw. The double team will be blocked, but the attack is often used into other things, such as grabs. By the way, in spite of what you may hear, you SHOULD use DT against Olimar; anyone who tells you otherwise has questionable matchup knowledge at best.

Using DT like this is almost never a good idea.

 

[Fizzle]

Using DT is almost never a good idea.

Fixed.

MK is the best choice for a secondary, but if you don't want to use him then Marth works well too. Marth is my secondary, and he seems to cover Luc's counters pretty well. I disagree with Marth's learning curve, though. Marth has practically zero safe KO moves, and he requires exceptional spacing to be played at the highest levels.

 

[Samuelson]

Marth is my secondary also...I am in the process of learning Falco and DK though. Those 3 will pretty much cover all weaknesses that Lucario has.

 

[Ussi]

If you have trouble with D3 and Olimar, Pikachu is by far the best option. Pikachu is pretty much one of Olimar's toughest matchups, and hard-counters D3.

Its neutral at best. Lots of people think slight flavor to Olimar.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Using DT like this is a brilliant idea.

Fix'd. Have you tried it yet? It's really effective, but I imagine you wouldn't spam it.

Its neutral at best. Lots of people think slight flavor to Olimar.

I'll agree. Pikachu is still one of Olimar's toughest opponents. Similar idea to "nothing counters MK."

EDIT: Weird... I know just enough about Olimar to disagree with a lot of the Olimar board matchups.

Anyway, Pikachu has a lot of multi-hit moves which destroy Olimar's smashes and Pikmin-throw. Generally, the only problem in the matchup is yellow pikmin, which can be handled with up-smash. Olimar outranges Pikachu, but so does everything else. Use D-smash often to stop Olimar's smashes.

If I knew more about the matchup I'd say more, but my impression that Pikachu is one of the more effective characters comes from a Pikachu-Olimar discussion a while ago outside either matchup thread. I've practiced the Olimar counter tactics listed above though, so I'm pretty confident in them.

 

[Ussi]

I'll agree. Pikachu is still one of Olimar's toughest opponents. Similar idea to "nothing counters MK."

I understand. Olimar has only one **** disadvantage. Then like 7 disadvantages. So being neutral isn't bad.

 

[phi1ny3]

My secondaries:
-Marth (tho he kind of shares main position)
-Zelda/Sheik (Zelda is a good char against D3 imo, since Chain grab doesn't work on her, and her aerials are easy to sweetspot, and her projectile ignores the "waddle" block.
-Link (he's fun to play, I'm getting really good with him, I can camp against some chars pretty well, etc).
-Pokemon Trainer (Who is in desperate need of a new voice actor).
-Weegee (not to be confused with Luigi, since kick taunt is in my game one way or another).
-Ganondorf (because he seems to win on my bad days, like when my other chars get 3 stocked for whatever reasons).

 

[Raiken]

^
I use a lot of those as secondaries too lol

Mine are:
-Pikachu(Can't use him online to save my life, i have no idea how some people manage to QAC efficiently online like at all) Offline, though, is a completely different story... though i really haven't played many people recently with him offline.
-Zelda/Shiek (Zelda's probably my 'official' secondary atm, she works well for my.. passive aggressive playstyle >_ >)
-Link
-PT(Squirtle is my best so far)
-Pit (Recently picked him up, getting slowly better with him; arrow looping is proving to be a little hard for me to use consistently)
Also use Ganondorf from time to time, though mine isn't good enough to qualify as a secondary.

...
Would be nice if there were ever any tournaments in my area, i don't get a chance to use most of my secondaries like... ever.

 

[Praxis]

Peach might be a fair Lucario secondary...she still loses to G&W, but she has a very slight advantage on Dedede and hard-counters Olimar.

Peach vs Marth is weird and up in the air. Some of the high level Peaches say that with the right playstyle Peach can completely destroy Marth (main proponent of this is Edrees, and he has a proven track record of having taken out every notable Marth player in SoCal in tournament). However, the majority of Peaches seem to have trouble with Marth.

 

[Samuelson]

Peach might be a fair Lucario secondary...she still loses to G&W, but she has a very slight advantage on Dedede and hard-counters Olimar.

Peach vs Marth is weird and up in the air. Some of the high level Peaches say that with the right playstyle Peach can completely destroy Marth (main proponent of this is Edrees, and he has a proven track record of having taken out every notable Marth player in SoCal in tournament). However, the majority of Peaches seem to have trouble with Marth.

Edrees lost to mikeHAZE, who mains Marth, at the last tourney i saw him at.

Peach is a fairly good secondary for Lucario but i prefer Marth or Falco or that combination.

EDIT: Edrees has a Peach that instills fear into my body by the way.

 

[Gnace]

I main Marth and I have Lucario and Ike as secondary. You are right with the 'Marth is a good Lucario secondary' but I disagree with the learning time on Marth. Ofcourse you know that SH fair and DB are good moves, but Marths isn't Marth without his so called Tipping. I thought Lucario had tipping 2 but i'm not sure. If so you probably know that tipping on 100% of you moves isn't the easiest thing in Brawl. This requires some training.

 

[Omit]

I main de3 as a secound mostly because of marf but pikachu seems like a pretty good idea.
No CG, small target etc.

 

[Praxis]

Edrees lost to mikeHAZE, who mains Marth, at the last tourney i saw him at.

Peach is a fairly good secondary for Lucario but i prefer Marth or Falco or that combination.

EDIT: Edrees has a Peach that instills fear into my body by the way.

However, from my understanding Edrees usually beats MikeHAZE. They've fought a few times IIRC.

And yeah, I agree that Marth is a better secondary. Just wanted to throw Peach out there. xD

Although, seriously, in spite of the OP, Metaknight is the best secondary He counters Marth and ROB, and has a decent advantage on all of the other characters you mentioned as Lucario problems.

 

[TK Wolf]

ROB is pretty much neutral against Luc, so that's not a problem. I think the biggest problems are D3, marth, and GW.

 

[Samuelson]

I would actually love to pick up Peach. Lately ive been learning lots of characters. It would be nice to have a hard counter for Olimar even though i don't think that matchup is bad at all. The more characters i know how to use the better.

 

[dj_pwn1423]

falco/marth

 

[Flowbeat]

I like pika for d3 but marth seeems to be the best overall second for luc besides mk

 

[Kitamerby]

Pikachu and Snake seem to cover everything for me. Pikachu handles Dedede, and Snake handles Marth/GnW quite nicely.

Olimar isn't enough to worry about.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Pikachu and Snake seem to cover everything for me. Pikachu handles Dedede, and Snake handles Marth/GnW quite nicely.

Olimar isn't enough to worry about.

Olimar is scarier than MK...

 

[phi1ny3]

Peach might be a fair Lucario secondary...she still loses to G&W, but she has a very slight advantage on Dedede and hard-counters Olimar.

Peach vs Marth is weird and up in the air. Some of the high level Peaches say that with the right playstyle Peach can completely destroy Marth (main proponent of this is Edrees, and he has a proven track record of having taken out every notable Marth player in SoCal in tournament). However, the majority of Peaches seem to have trouble with Marth.

Lol, everyone one knows in the Marth communities, that even tho West Coast gets all the girls, they also don't have as much skill as East Coast!

 

[Kitamerby]

Olimar is scarier than MK...

Not if you spam Double Team, right guy?

 

[Drizzt6195]

Yeah peach is nice and has a good Dair =D but her playstyle is quite special so not for everybody.
Another good secondary is kirby, good matchup with DDD and olimar, loves combos, hard to gimp and great Uptilt and Kirbyside +D

 

[Milln]

I suck with everyone but my Luca. I can't play as a secondary. I have hella fun with Fox and Poketrainer and just about everyone else... I just can't play 'em. XD

 

[tedward2000]

I'd have to say Marth, because they are ever so similar,
...however my kirby is better then my cario, so personally I'd say Kirby, cause his dash is sooooo funny.
XD
-t2

 

[The_Bear735]

Hm, I think Pigajoo is a pretty good secondary if you have problems with DDD and Olimar. But yeah, Marth is pretty much the best choice for covering all of them.


For some insane reason, I expected to see a Diddy Kong suggestion lol.

 

[phi1ny3]

I suck with everyone but my Luca. I can't play as a secondary. I have hella fun with Fox and Poketrainer and just about everyone else... I just can't play 'em. XD

Lol. Ur marth makes my eyes bleed, but ur Lucario is beautiful.

 

[mikeHAZE]

.

However, from my understanding Edrees usually beats MikeHAZE. They've fought a few times IIRC.

And yeah, I agree that Marth is a better secondary. Just wanted to throw Peach out there. xD

Although, seriously, in spite of the OP, Metaknight is the best secondary He counters Marth and ROB, and has a decent advantage on all of the other characters you mentioned as Lucario problems.

i won a mm yesterday



but edreespro is too **** xD <3

 

[LinIsKorean]

I'm using D3 and Olimar as my secondaries as of now, it seems to be working well. =D

 

[dguy6789]

Maybe two people in this entire thread who have said even one thing that is correct.

 

[Popertop]

You really don't need secondaries as Lucario.
He's way too good.

 

[Popertop]

I suck with everyone but my Luca. I can't play as a secondary. I have hella fun with Fox and Poketrainer and just about everyone else... I just can't play 'em. XD

srsly, go place high at a national tourney already. XP

but really, with Lucario, who needs secondaries?