Scabe
Successful Businessman
Don't know, I suppose you could.
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Secrets of The Seven Sages: Link's Brainstorming Thread, Complete AT list and Combos
- Thread starter Fox Is Openly Deceptive
- Start date
Arcade
Smash Ace
Now guys, no offense, but everything you've found out about Link so far is inconsequential compared to what I just discovered. This is the motherlode of bomb ATs. After people start using this, I guarantee Link will jump up to at LEAST mid low tier. Watch and be amazed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9siOW-c0l5k
Edit: and no it's not a rickroll. What is this, 2007?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9siOW-c0l5k
Edit: and no it's not a rickroll. What is this, 2007?
Thats fine and dandy as long as they dont shield it. Shielding the bomb would cause it to bounce and most likely you wouldn't be able to do anything. It also wouldn't work at all at high%s knocking your opponent just too far away. It also wouldnt work if thrown directly above your opponent as it would blow up as it hits your opponent thus leaving you too high to actually get to the ground to power shield it.
Only time i see it being of use is they spot dodge it leaving them open to a follow up, or at low %s where the bomb knocks up only a little. Only if you the bomb directly to the side of them so the bomb itself never touches them, only the explosion.
Only time i see it being of use is they spot dodge it leaving them open to a follow up, or at low %s where the bomb knocks up only a little. Only if you the bomb directly to the side of them so the bomb itself never touches them, only the explosion.
Arcade
Smash Ace
spoilers: read the description
I'm considering recording the bair combos Fox is Openly Awesome listed off though now that I have my Gamebridge working.
I'm considering recording the bair combos Fox is Openly Awesome listed off though now that I have my Gamebridge working.
quirkynature
Smash Ace
For what it's worth, it looks cool.
Scabe
Successful Businessman
Another Jab lock set up (although in this video it turns into a stage spike but it can be a jab lock set up).
But anyways, if you full hop throw the bomb and then immediately angle your boomerang diagonally down. The bomb will followed by the set knockback of the boomerang.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhJPqIgiv30
But anyways, if you full hop throw the bomb and then immediately angle your boomerang diagonally down. The bomb will followed by the set knockback of the boomerang.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhJPqIgiv30
Well that was nice.
I can't really think of a way that this could be used. If I do ever think of anything, I'll let you know. Thanks for contributing though.
Also, on the discussion topic of the returning boomerang, has anyone ever thought of taking advantage of the catch lag? Confused yet? I'm talking about the not so well known "semi tech" where you throw out a Boomerang, (wait a bit) do a SH Dair that misses the opponent, then as soon as you land, time it so the Boomerang returns and your Dair lag is cancelled by the boomerang catch lag.
It seems better for Link than it does for Toon Link, for two reasons. 1. Link's Dair has more lag. 2. Link's Boomerang doesn't over-react, so it will almost always come back and cancel your SH Dair lag (With Toon, the Boomerang often goes over his head because it over-reacts to the SH.)
Yes.
Ryos' reply sums it up.
I can't really think of a way that this could be used. If I do ever think of anything, I'll let you know. Thanks for contributing though.
It would be interesting to see how this could be shown effectively. Maybe just go to training mode and show it registering as a consecutive hit. Also, whoever ends up recording it, make sure you perform it properly, with the whole "SH Fast fall Bair to turn around stuff".
This looks interesting and I have tested it a bit, but I'm just not sure if it'd be possible to get close enough in time to Jab them. Did you have a vid of this setting up a Jab lock? Even if you've just done it before but you don't have a vid, I'm sure I could take your word for it Scabe. I just need some kind of confirmation before I add it. Usually, I test things to get my confirmation, but I just gave it a quick test and I'm still not sure.
Also, on the discussion topic of the returning boomerang, has anyone ever thought of taking advantage of the catch lag? Confused yet? I'm talking about the not so well known "semi tech" where you throw out a Boomerang, (wait a bit) do a SH Dair that misses the opponent, then as soon as you land, time it so the Boomerang returns and your Dair lag is cancelled by the boomerang catch lag.
It seems better for Link than it does for Toon Link, for two reasons. 1. Link's Dair has more lag. 2. Link's Boomerang doesn't over-react, so it will almost always come back and cancel your SH Dair lag (With Toon, the Boomerang often goes over his head because it over-reacts to the SH.)
It doesn't cut it exactly, it replaces it (the dair landing animation is special in this regard). So all you'd need to know is how many frames less the catch animation lag is than the Dair landing animation lag. I would imagine it would be considerably less. In the end, I see it as a bit of trivia to know about and a situational "semi-tech" that may come in handy.
But still, I figured some of you wouldn't know about it and so I thought I might mention it.
But still, I figured some of you wouldn't know about it and so I thought I might mention it.
Scabe
Successful Businessman
Yeah soz, I'll make that vid soon with my ideas!
I can't wait to see it man. How long do you think it will take you?
quirkynature
Smash Ace
Sidetrack: Scabe, I rem'd you said you wanted to do something about the Hylian Shield. Well, my CPU did. Everytime I cancel my arrows, it ducks down and lets the shield negate them.
Same for an unangled boomerang. The knockback it just takes to sometimes get out of bomb and arrow range.
As for bombs, it ducked beneath one once. It also tried to block with the HS by ducking, but the bomb hit the ground after bouncing off and exploded anyway, so fail there. I might have a vid or two of it because I keep saving every single match since I got infinite replay, but it'll take me some time to sift through them all.
Same for an unangled boomerang. The knockback it just takes to sometimes get out of bomb and arrow range.
As for bombs, it ducked beneath one once. It also tried to block with the HS by ducking, but the bomb hit the ground after bouncing off and exploded anyway, so fail there. I might have a vid or two of it because I keep saving every single match since I got infinite replay, but it'll take me some time to sift through them all.
Your CPU used his shield? Smart Comp. I dont think my Wii's Link has ever tried that. Do you do that yourself?
Also do you think you could take advantage of ur opponent ducking down like that? Any possibility he might be left open?
Also do you think you could take advantage of ur opponent ducking down like that? Any possibility he might be left open?
quirkynature
Smash Ace
No way! Arrows I either shield, spotdodge or...get hit. I have no idea why he's suddenly such a beast. Maybe it took ideas off Scabe's Link when we Wi-Fi'd. It jab cancels into F-smashes, too, the darn thing.
Sure, you could easily punish it except that when I arrow cancel he's out of range and the bombs are usually followed up. Ducking beneath the bomb took me completely by surprise so I don't think I followed up (leading to massive punishment).
Scabe
Successful Businessman
I'll do it tomorrow! I've already forgotten most of my ideas.
Bomb bouncing of shield
Gale Return stuff
That full hop Bomb throw + Boomerang jab lock set up iirc
Are some I remember.
I'll also record that Bair Cancel Dsmash thing.
Are there any other ideas that you guys want me to record?
Later on I'll do like vids for Bomb AT's, Rang AT's etc.
Bomb bouncing of shield
Gale Return stuff
That full hop Bomb throw + Boomerang jab lock set up iirc
Are some I remember.
I'll also record that Bair Cancel Dsmash thing.
Are there any other ideas that you guys want me to record?
Later on I'll do like vids for Bomb AT's, Rang AT's etc.
Do the Jerk.......
I still say Link's is amazing.
Get better Scabe XD
Anyway, if you were going to just do the Bair Cancel D-smash thing, you could easilly cover the 8 characters that it works on. (WE NEED A NAME!! Bair Cancel? Let's think, so it's the first hit of Bair that is cancelled on the ground. That's what we have to work with. We probably can't include whatever folow up we would use because the follow up changes. Ground cancelled Bair? It just doesn't sound cool enough. We need a cool sounding name.)
I still say Link's is amazing.
Get better Scabe XD
Anyway, if you were going to just do the Bair Cancel D-smash thing, you could easilly cover the 8 characters that it works on. (WE NEED A NAME!! Bair Cancel? Let's think, so it's the first hit of Bair that is cancelled on the ground. That's what we have to work with. We probably can't include whatever folow up we would use because the follow up changes. Ground cancelled Bair? It just doesn't sound cool enough. We need a cool sounding name.)
TBC+ True Bair Cancel+
True combos, Bair Cancels, and + for how many things it can combo into.
Idk just a though. Though it reminds me of TCBY for any of those who have heard of that ice cream place.
@Scabe
Try the Zair>Pivot landing Bair. Might only be able to do single hit Zair and relatively close. But if it does manage to work there are some combo possibilities there.
And yes try out some Jerk possibilities.
True combos, Bair Cancels, and + for how many things it can combo into.
Idk just a though. Though it reminds me of TCBY for any of those who have heard of that ice cream place.
@Scabe
Try the Zair>Pivot landing Bair. Might only be able to do single hit Zair and relatively close. But if it does manage to work there are some combo possibilities there.
And yes try out some Jerk possibilities.
Dropkick Combo.
Example: Dropkick Dsmash combo.
quirkynature
Smash Ace
Holy ****. Awesome!!
"Yo, what was that move with the B-air?"
"I dropkick combo'd that foo' din't I?"
"That was EPIC. Link is EPIC. SUCK IT, MK!"
Sorry if I got carried away. I hate MK.
EPIC is what it sounds. I love it. Dropkick combo.
Scabe
Successful Businessman
Dropkick sounds good. 
i.e Dropkick Jab Combo, Dropkick Dsmash Combo etc.
FFFFFUUUU I hate The Jerk it's sooo hard to do ;__;
I don't know how you can pull it off so easily Foxy! I'll probably it off wrong in the vid :embarrass
I'm not exactly sure what this Zair pivot thing is like. I'll test it out and see what I can do.
i.e Dropkick Jab Combo, Dropkick Dsmash Combo etc.
FFFFFUUUU I hate The Jerk it's sooo hard to do ;__;
I don't know how you can pull it off so easily Foxy! I'll probably it off wrong in the vid :embarrass
I'm not exactly sure what this Zair pivot thing is like. I'll test it out and see what I can do.
This at about 48 seconds in. See if that's possible with Link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LW7p9_sqOI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LW7p9_sqOI&feature=related
Huggles828
Aimin' to Misbehave
Hmm, zair pivot landing? I'm thinking it's definitely possible, but the applications are gonna be much more limited for us I think. For us to do it, we probably will have to only get the first hit of zair to land like Ryos said (otherwise we wouldn't be close enough), setting ourselves up to ruin our spacing if they shield or dodge, and opening us up to nasty counterattacks since Link is garbage up close. Another question is whether or not it's escapable (or at least easily escapable) since I would imagine we have more lag on our jump than Tink. If zair DOES lead into a bair though, it might be useful, although it still seems like it'd be a very dangerous AT for us to use, since this is a very aggressive technique and Link is not a character who likes to approach. Maybe this could be useful out of a SH'd airdodge?
Scabe
Successful Businessman
Zair pivot landing Bair works. I tested this on Wolf and it's a true combo!
Huggles828
Aimin' to Misbehave
True combos? In my Brawl Link?
It's more common than you think.
So what are the applications for this? Is it a safe enough combo for it to be useful? It sure would be nice for us to have a true combo that is useful rather than another technique that only works until the opponent figures it out, like teching the boomerang to stop jab locks.
It's more common than you think.
So what are the applications for this? Is it a safe enough combo for it to be useful? It sure would be nice for us to have a true combo that is useful rather than another technique that only works until the opponent figures it out, like teching the boomerang to stop jab locks.
I think Zair>Pivotlanding Bair is more of a defensive to offensive move.
Possible use for this being: When your opponent gets close to you, retreating air dodge to approaching Zair in the same SH, into a pivot landing Bair might actually help Link turn the situation in his favor when someone gets too close where Link doesn't do so well.
But it most definitely will have to be a surprise for it to work. Not something you want to use over and over unless they are too stupid to figure out how to deal with it. Also the real problem is if they shield the zair. Though they are less likely to shield of they think Link is about to back away with an air dodge.
Possible use for this being: When your opponent gets close to you, retreating air dodge to approaching Zair in the same SH, into a pivot landing Bair might actually help Link turn the situation in his favor when someone gets too close where Link doesn't do so well.
But it most definitely will have to be a surprise for it to work. Not something you want to use over and over unless they are too stupid to figure out how to deal with it. Also the real problem is if they shield the zair. Though they are less likely to shield of they think Link is about to back away with an air dodge.
Scabe
Successful Businessman
It looks pretty flashy. It worked on like Snake, MK and Wolf, those are the ones I've tested.
So it may come in handy this move whenever you use the close up version of Zair.
So it may come in handy this move whenever you use the close up version of Zair.
Oh Snap! You guys are the best! My mind is blown!
It has to be updating time. Either that or business time.
Re-cap. (just so I can keep up with what's happening and update.)
So I'll make a Zair combo discussion section. Inspired by the recent findings that it true combos into a pivot landed Bair. Get *****. That is good stuff. I believe it was originally thought of by Ryos4 ad then tested and confirmed by Scabe.
@Rizen: !!!!FFFFUUUU!!!!!! The Dropkick Combo is a beast name! How did you? That is amazing! I seriously wish I could think of names like that. It's official (as if it wasn't as soon as you suggested it). The Dropkick Combo it is.
@Scabe: About the Jerk. You know what it looks like right? (if you've forgotten, just look it up for Toon) And you did pull it off a few times when I was there, so even if you just chuck it in the vid as you performing it once just to be random and have people go, wtf was that! Remember, you are the first Link main in the world to perform that for Link. Show the other Link mainers what their missing out on XD.
I'm gonna update. Again, great work everyone!
It has to be updating time. Either that or business time.
Re-cap. (just so I can keep up with what's happening and update.)
So I'll make a Zair combo discussion section. Inspired by the recent findings that it true combos into a pivot landed Bair. Get *****. That is good stuff. I believe it was originally thought of by Ryos4 ad then tested and confirmed by Scabe.
@Rizen: !!!!FFFFUUUU!!!!!! The Dropkick Combo is a beast name! How did you? That is amazing! I seriously wish I could think of names like that. It's official (as if it wasn't as soon as you suggested it). The Dropkick Combo it is.
@Scabe: About the Jerk. You know what it looks like right? (if you've forgotten, just look it up for Toon) And you did pull it off a few times when I was there, so even if you just chuck it in the vid as you performing it once just to be random and have people go, wtf was that! Remember, you are the first Link main in the world to perform that for Link. Show the other Link mainers what their missing out on XD.
I'm gonna update. Again, great work everyone!
Huggles828
Aimin' to Misbehave
It's business time. Because it's Wednesday night. And afterwards you should sort out the recycling, because that's not part of it but it's still very important.
And by the way, this thread is full of win.
Scabe
Successful Businessman
I got that reference Huggles lol. That vid will be up one day >__<
Huggles knows where it's at.
Scabe vid.
XD, nah seriously, take your time. If you're too busy, no worries. Me personally, I'll be busy like all of tomorow playing Mario Galaxy 2!!! FFFUUUU
So more on topic, seeing as we have that section about Zair combos, who loves Zair to Grab? I know I do.
What does Link actually have though? Being a non Link main and all, I'm a bit unsure about what Link can combo out of Zair. Please inform me.
Scabe vid.
XD, nah seriously, take your time. If you're too busy, no worries. Me personally, I'll be busy like all of tomorow playing Mario Galaxy 2!!! FFFUUUU
So more on topic, seeing as we have that section about Zair combos, who loves Zair to Grab? I know I do.
What does Link actually have though? Being a non Link main and all, I'm a bit unsure about what Link can combo out of Zair. Please inform me.
Uhh are we talking true combos?
Cause i think it might only be a few with true combos. Like Zair to Bomb. Though if Zair to Bair works shouldnt Zair to Utilt work too and jab. Based on frame speed.
Though other attacks that Ive been able to string from Zair:
Pivot Landing Ftilt
Dsmash First hit or second hit(Fast fallers)
Ive hit a fairly good airborne peach with Zair(one hit)>Zair(one hit)>hyphen usmash(not DAC), actually ended up losing that match.
If they shield the Zair, i sometimes go into a retreat to Pivot Fsmash(Tip), which can catch people off guard when they think they have an opportunity to counter a shielded Zair. I think its a great spacing tool against characters with little range but are fast enough to try and counter Zair. I do it a bunch against Meta's who like to play ground based.
I think we all seen the Zair>Zair>Zair>Bomb by Izaw
Also the Zair to DAC is pretty common
And geeze have i been spamming posts or something. When i got back here like a month ago i had under 500...
Cause i think it might only be a few with true combos. Like Zair to Bomb. Though if Zair to Bair works shouldnt Zair to Utilt work too and jab. Based on frame speed.
Though other attacks that Ive been able to string from Zair:
Pivot Landing Ftilt
Dsmash First hit or second hit(Fast fallers)
Ive hit a fairly good airborne peach with Zair(one hit)>Zair(one hit)>hyphen usmash(not DAC), actually ended up losing that match.
If they shield the Zair, i sometimes go into a retreat to Pivot Fsmash(Tip), which can catch people off guard when they think they have an opportunity to counter a shielded Zair. I think its a great spacing tool against characters with little range but are fast enough to try and counter Zair. I do it a bunch against Meta's who like to play ground based.
I think we all seen the Zair>Zair>Zair>Bomb by Izaw
Also the Zair to DAC is pretty common
And geeze have i been spamming posts or something. When i got back here like a month ago i had under 500...
So after a few minutes of Zair testing just then, I found the usual interesting true combos including Zair to F-smash which I think is just amazing. But this is beside the point that I'm trying to make.
As it turns out, on some characters (all of which are unknown atm) and possibly on certain percents (which also needs to be tested thoroughly), Link can true combo Zair into the D-tilt Spike! (read that again.) This is amazing! On stage this can lead into a Jab lock straight away (because who the hell is gonna tech that?) and off stage, well it obviously spikes so it will kill your opponents at basically any percent. I've already been able to pull off both on stage and off stage applications on a handfull of characters, but as I said, this is going to be quite specific.
(Link is such an under developed character....)
Anyway, tell me what you think of this, maybe you already knew. I'll get back to you once I've done some more testing. This one's gonna be quite hard to crack. The D-tilt spike is just so.... touchy. It really does seem to need everything perfect in order to work and I'm not sure what it wants yet. It's just a bit random.
I've read those D-tilt spiking threads before. but I think they're wrong..... I don't remember it saying anything about spiking at the tip of D-tilt. Maybe it did, in which case I should re-read some stuff.
Umm, thoughts XD?
As it turns out, on some characters (all of which are unknown atm) and possibly on certain percents (which also needs to be tested thoroughly), Link can true combo Zair into the D-tilt Spike! (read that again.) This is amazing! On stage this can lead into a Jab lock straight away (because who the hell is gonna tech that?) and off stage, well it obviously spikes so it will kill your opponents at basically any percent. I've already been able to pull off both on stage and off stage applications on a handfull of characters, but as I said, this is going to be quite specific.
(Link is such an under developed character....)
Anyway, tell me what you think of this, maybe you already knew. I'll get back to you once I've done some more testing. This one's gonna be quite hard to crack. The D-tilt spike is just so.... touchy. It really does seem to need everything perfect in order to work and I'm not sure what it wants yet. It's just a bit random.
I've read those D-tilt spiking threads before. but I think they're wrong..... I don't remember it saying anything about spiking at the tip of D-tilt. Maybe it did, in which case I should re-read some stuff.
Umm, thoughts XD?
Scabe
Successful Businessman
Wat Zair to Dtilt spike and a true combo!? 
At points in which ive spiked before are the hilt or something touching Link, i think can be done backwards as well. Also can be done when striking someone with the center of the blade, which can actually spike people hanging on the ledge. I think i did it once in a 3 way ffa, i think scabe has the replay.
Also i think its also important to note that Dtilt Spike may be like Pits Dtilt spike, in that there are only a set amount of characters you can dtilt spike while they hang on the ledge. However, the middle of the sword spike may actually hit everyone. It something that may need to be tested.
Also as far as i can tell, for a spike to actually land. It seems to require you to hit the appropriate hurt box. For Pit its like the top and the bottom. I assume its the same for Link, as ive only been able to spike by hitting their heads or their feet just at the right spot with just the right spot of the sword.
Also it seems like Scabe's idea about Link's Move discussion could have actually help or atleast be a place to organize some of these things.
Also i think its also important to note that Dtilt Spike may be like Pits Dtilt spike, in that there are only a set amount of characters you can dtilt spike while they hang on the ledge. However, the middle of the sword spike may actually hit everyone. It something that may need to be tested.
Also as far as i can tell, for a spike to actually land. It seems to require you to hit the appropriate hurt box. For Pit its like the top and the bottom. I assume its the same for Link, as ive only been able to spike by hitting their heads or their feet just at the right spot with just the right spot of the sword.
Also it seems like Scabe's idea about Link's Move discussion could have actually help or atleast be a place to organize some of these things.
Huggles828
Aimin' to Misbehave
From what I understand, the spike connects if you hit with the hitbox that is in Link's body or the hitbox that is the middle of the blade, not the hilt or the tip, and ONLY in the middle of the blade, because the other two hitboxes have more priority and override the spike if they also hit.
I'm not gonna lie, this is all nuts. I knew Link had a good bit of potential, but I'm finding all of this amazing. Is this for real? It all seems too good to be true.
I'm not gonna lie, this is all nuts. I knew Link had a good bit of potential, but I'm finding all of this amazing. Is this for real? It all seems too good to be true.
quirkynature
Smash Ace
~
I'm guessing since the second hit of Link's jab has slightly vertical knockback, it helps when Link leans forward to D-tilt. o_0
Huggles, FiOD is a God. I worship him. This is true. ^_~
I've only been able to spike using Link's body. IMO it's easier how Izaw does it: when the opponent is airborne just off the stage, jab cancel into the d-tilt.
I'm guessing since the second hit of Link's jab has slightly vertical knockback, it helps when Link leans forward to D-tilt. o_0
Huggles, FiOD is a God. I worship him. This is true. ^_~
^Dtilt spike's the yellow hitbubbles, ignore the rest of that.
I combo Zair into jabs, Fsmash, and Dsmash, for some reason my grabs always miss.
That's interesting, I didn't know of any true Zair combos. Dtilt spikes are unlikely because the edge snap characters have, but they can'y edge grab when in hitstun. We should look into this further...
Great work people!