Shades make it 100/0 - Squirtle Matchup Discussion

[Dandy Lion]

Well, these are my opinions. I will say I am playing most of my matches over netplay, so I'm losing some frames, and most people aren't at the same caliber of the folks you get to meet at AZPM. I know I'm certainly not since I have little tech skill and am relying on Squirtle's speed + people's unfamiliarity with the match-up against people who don't spam side-b. :s

I find the range/disjoint of the Fire Emblem characters to be a big issue. I feel like I have to work harder to get in for combos and have to really make sure my punish game is on point compared to what Fire Emblem chars need to do.

 

[Burnsy]

[ is when considering MUs. Then again I'd argue that you wrote them off altogether too soon before truuly considering all that you should have.[/quote]

 

[Dandy Lion]

I still think the Marth, Roy, and Zard give Squirtle a hard time regardless. It'd be nice to meet a Falcon/Shiek/MetaKnight that can tech chase well to see how I do, too. A lot of people in my area seem to have pocket MetaKnights....

Some tips would be appreciated, especially regarding Squirle specific techniques. I know a lot of people commented on how slippery my Squirtle was, so I'm hoping I'm doing something right with all the ss shenanigans.

 

[~Dad~]

Burnsy you should make some sort of a guide on how to fight against Roy, because I still can't figure that out lol. A while back I was talking to Bwett and he agreed with me that Roy is really REALLY hard to beat so long as he plays smart.

Roy is my nightmare man ;_;

 

[Burnsy]

To be fair, he lives in a region where THE Roy player dominates. Although I'm curious, what do you think makes the Roy matchup much worse than the Marth one?

 

[~Dad~]

I think they're both really tough, but in my experiences Roy has an easier time killing me because he doesn't have to tipper me.

Also yeah that's true, Sethlon is really dominate there. (Also they're roommates lol)

 

[Burnsy]

I think you really just need to turn up the patience. If you run away a lot it will eventually become frustrating for the Marth/Roy and they are going to be putting out moves with long range and low startup like fairs, jabs and tilts to try and catch you while you bait and move around. You need to be a step ahead of them so you can read/react to these attempts, avoid them while still staying close, then move in and punish hard before retreating far back and repeating the process. I think you should be doing lots of shellshift dancing in this MU to make your SS options harder to read and punish, making your baits more effective.

 

[~Dad~]

Gotcha. I'm really impatient so that very well might be why I hate this matchup so much.

 

[~Dad~]

I'm going to a local tonight that will have a few Roys there, I'll try and get some matches recorded against them. ^_^

 

[~Dad~]

Well there wasn't a recording setup.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I made a point to be more patient against Roy though, and I really beat up on him.

Still think that matchup sucks though lol

 

[Burnsy]

Keep working on it . Glad to hear being more patient seemed to work.

 

[bubbaking]

One of Roy's advantages over Marth in every MU is that his fsmash seems to be safer on block. Also, combos into neutral B kill Squirtle a lot faster than Marth's combos, and Roy's kill moves are stronger than Marth's in general. A CC from Roy can be devastating since CC dsmash is extremely fast and can kill and CC dtilt can lead into a kill move.

 

[Burnsy]

All the more reason to take care in approaching/avoid approaching him in general.

 

[GravyJigster]

Thoughts on Lucario? I find I have to play a lot more baiting with him. You have to be REAL careful not to let him get a combo starter. Also his aura **** balls shut down my ground game.

 

[WizGalen]

One thing I do against Lucario is alot of jumping while in side-b, you can kinda hop over the aura balls. I don't know how effective it is against better players, but it is one solution

 

[GravyJigster]

I don't know, I've weened off the side-b approaches. Lucario's fsmash alone would shut that down, not to mention his other tricks.

 

[Kamarihi]

What we really should do is get some of the better players of varying other characters to play against high-tier Squirtles and analyze the matchup in small video series- maybe once Debug mode is live?

 

[DJCrinkleCut]

What do you guys think of the Mario matchup?
As a PM Mario main, I find Squirtle to be extremely annoying to deal with - but that could just be my lack of knowledge of the character and his properties.

 

[Kamarihi]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Squirtle, IMO, doesn't have a very hard time against anyone who isn't a swordsman or heavy weight class. So Mario isn't usually an issue as he has no way of stopping our side - b without grabbing or perfectly timing a smash.

 

[~Dad~]

You shouldn't be relying on side b to win matches. Grabbing it really isn't hard, and neither is hitting him out of it.

Also fireballs/pills are annoying as hell.

 

[Sir Skaro]

I have a hard time getting ground Mario when he spams pills/fireballs and CC camps. Especially on stages like PS 2, Norfair, and Distant planet. I don't have a Mario to practice with, but after thinking about it I think that mixups between Shell Sling bubbles, Shell Sling aerials, and Shell Sling tomahawks are good approaches. If you try to WD through the pills, you are easily counter by being grabbed or smashed. Plus you take damage from tanking the pills/fireballs.

If the Mario is camping, Squirtle's ground game seems almost all but shut down. Squirtle does have the speed advantage, but Mario's camping game is really strong. At low %s anyway. Basically, if you're down against M2K's Mario, good freaking luck on that.

Perhaps another way to get past pills/fireballs is the just carefully weave through them. Perhaps it's just me needing more practice.

 

[~Dad~]

M2K's Mario made me sad.

 

[Crezyte]

I just joined the squirtle squad recently, but I'm sad there isn't that much smashboards discussion about him... so let me chime in.

What does The Squad think about the Meta Knight matchup? The one I've played against has been living to 100+ % quite often which I don't think should be happening... (i kinda suck at gimping..)

What kill setups should I be going for? I've personally been hydroplane d-throwing which may be too predictable for DI purposes...

 

[Sayuri]

I haven't played a lot of matches with Squirtle so I'm not really familliar with his MU. In general, is he better against big and slow characters, short/long range attacks, floaties, etc. ?