Ok I seen something like this on the wolf boards and i thought it would be a good idea to start a thread on this. Due to the fact that Sheik has been severely nerfed in the transition from melee to brawl, Sheik players will need every little trick in the book to compete against above average players. I know that most of us could compete with Sheik against almost anyone; but everyone has to admit that it is extremely hard against Metaknights, G&W's, Snakes, and the like. I thought maybe all of us could put our heads together, discuss our strategies and see what we come up with. Is anyone interested in something like this?
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*Sheik Metagame Discussion*
- Thread starter -Mars-
- Start date
Severely nerfed?
Sheik was overpowered in Melee, TBH. And she's still got a pretty strong edgeguarding/gimping/"comboing" game, given that it's Brawl. If anything, it's not that she was severely nerfed (though fair and needles were made weaker overall), but rather that the Brawl engine makes it harder for Sheik to kill the way she used to in Melee.
Allright i'll give you that, I do find myself relying mainly on her edgeguarding and gimping game for kills......as for combos, besides the f tilt lock, I find it very hard to combo with Sheik.
lol, we don't have the drama, though.
Either way, Sheik's still not a particularly "advanced" character, though she has a bunch of random little techniques that you might or might not want to learn, which are covered in stealthsushi's thread. The most important part of playing Sheik well is still knowing all her matchups, and we've already got a thread or two about that.
Dynamic comboing is nigh impossible. Your best bet is to hit them upward or throw them upward, wait for an airdodge, and then punish off of that.
Either way, Sheik's still not a particularly "advanced" character, though she has a bunch of random little techniques that you might or might not want to learn, which are covered in stealthsushi's thread. The most important part of playing Sheik well is still knowing all her matchups, and we've already got a thread or two about that.
Dynamic comboing is nigh impossible. Your best bet is to hit them upward or throw them upward, wait for an airdodge, and then punish off of that.
Morrigan
/!\<br>\¡/
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2006
- Messages
- 18,681
I agree with you on that. This thread just reminded me of it, you know, the typical "not lyk in meley" type of threads.
Sorry for going offtopic, I'll leave now.
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
There isn't really much to talk about. Sheik's KOs just tend to take place on the bottom of the screen instead of the top.
ADHD
Smash Hero
I played melee for a few hours the other day, I don't understand why people claimed she was broken, she was just good. Idk, her fair wasn't nearly as bad as snakes utilt, or GnW's fsmash which kills some chars at 70%.
Sheik deserves upper or mid middle tier.
Sheik deserves upper or mid middle tier.
Sheik's fair had a mean angle and could be combo'd off of practically any of her attacks or even a dthrow.
ADHD
Smash Hero
Yes but it was good, it wasn't broken.
You don't need a broken attack to be a broken character. Having a chaingrab on half the cast, comboing practically every attack into one of her finishers, having fast movement, having pretty decent recovery, and being overall rather easy to learn all contributed to making Sheik rather stupidly good.
However, there are no "broken" characters in Melee, in the strict sense of the term.
However, there are no "broken" characters in Melee, in the strict sense of the term.
imdavid
Smash Journeyman
Personally I think the melee comparisons don't get us anywhere 
and also, I thought that metagame thing for wolf was kind of... lame as it was mostly people shouting out "I use my bair more often now" and so forth. Thought it was rediculous a little. I'm just curious as to where this thread would go so lets not close it just yet.
and also, I thought that metagame thing for wolf was kind of... lame as it was mostly people shouting out "I use my bair more often now" and so forth. Thought it was rediculous a little. I'm just curious as to where this thread would go so lets not close it just yet.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
~shrugs~
I've been using the DACUS a lot recently in my gameplay and it seems to do a great job in helping me against ROB's and Marth's.
Once you learn the soon as possible attack (no charge up) you can also use it to hit people just as they land with 1 of the two hits.
I see a lot of uses for the DACUS and it does a great job adding a new edge to sheik gameplay...sadly it has made me worst because I'm currently spamming it to see it's limits.
I've been using the DACUS a lot recently in my gameplay and it seems to do a great job in helping me against ROB's and Marth's.
Once you learn the soon as possible attack (no charge up) you can also use it to hit people just as they land with 1 of the two hits.
I see a lot of uses for the DACUS and it does a great job adding a new edge to sheik gameplay...sadly it has made me worst because I'm currently spamming it to see it's limits.
I'm assuming DACUS is an acronym for Dash Attack Cancelled Up Smash? If it's not forgive me; I use this a lot as well......it's one of the only ways I can effectively land Sheiks up smash. As for approaching with Sheik, she doesn't have a lot of priority on her aerials so lately i've been dashing towards the opponent, short hopping out of the dash just out of my opponents range, then I react to what my opponent does. If they shield I grab, if they short hop into an aerial I capitalize on thier landing lag......approaching with Sheik can be a pain, sometimes I even find myself playing a sort of defensive Sheik which is hard to have the patience to do......considering all that speed she has.
Agi
Smash Lord
I'm having trouble with my Sheik, too... especially against Olimars. Gah, those pikmin are so annoying... and everytime i guard myself with a chain, he just runs run, throws me, lands a few F-Smashes with weak Pikmin, then kills me with an electric or fire pikmin... cant stand the little alien.
I'ts easily one of her worst matchups......the pikmin can be a pain, you can short hop as you approach, you might get hit a couple of times, but once your next to Olimar it becomes a lot easier to play him; pressure Olimar every chance you get.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
Sheik ***** as long as you do your very best to figure out matchups. If you REALLY find them unstoppable or too much to handle, that's when you find a counter pick.
There were times where I used Sheik and couldn't figure out G&W... then I figured out how to beat him with other characters... then I went back to Sheik and was able to win simply because I had more vs. G&W knowledge.
Sheik, like Diddy and MK but to a lesser extent, has the speed and damage-dealing abilities to play aggressively and adapt to almost any matchup.
Very difficult: IC's, Pikmin, sometimes MK
(For MK, Neo vs Plank can be a very good tutorial.)
Sheik is amazing. nerf =/= bad. Always play to a character's strengths.
There were times where I used Sheik and couldn't figure out G&W... then I figured out how to beat him with other characters... then I went back to Sheik and was able to win simply because I had more vs. G&W knowledge.
Sheik, like Diddy and MK but to a lesser extent, has the speed and damage-dealing abilities to play aggressively and adapt to almost any matchup.
Very difficult: IC's, Pikmin, sometimes MK
(For MK, Neo vs Plank can be a very good tutorial.)
Sheik is amazing. nerf =/= bad. Always play to a character's strengths.
imdavid
Smash Journeyman
Oli isn't that bad, just know need to learn how to approach
nair softhit-grab works almost all the time, use it and watch the glory of oli's game fall apart
dair pierces through oli's usmash, great for surprise
jab-jab -> ftilt -> rising nair works great
needle to stall and give you time when he's off the ledge then snatch it away from him
just need to know oli's strenths and weaknesses and know how to counter it with sheiks play style
nair softhit-grab works almost all the time, use it and watch the glory of oli's game fall apart
dair pierces through oli's usmash, great for surprise
jab-jab -> ftilt -> rising nair works great
needle to stall and give you time when he's off the ledge then snatch it away from him
just need to know oli's strenths and weaknesses and know how to counter it with sheiks play style
TigerWoods
Smash Champion
I tend to switch to zelda during an olimar matchup. Am I making a bad decision? Zelda has alot of "get off me moves" and a disjointed hitbox on alot of a attacks...
imdavid
Smash Journeyman
zelda isn't a bad character, if you feel like you do better against oli with zelda, then that's totally fine.
Wildfire393
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 12, 2007
- Messages
- 335
In my early experience with brawl, I played Zelda a lot and my friend played Olimar a lot. Zelda's got some trumps on olimar. Her reflector serves as a great way to stop Side B spams. Her Din's makes the spamming game in your favor. Up Air and Up Tilt kill the light little bugger at ridiculously low percentages.
TigerWoods
Smash Champion
woo hoo! hurrah for making the right decision XD. And yes Naryus is awsome at squishing the lil-buggers.
I think Kirby is a bad matchup for Sheik as well. A real floaty character that escapes the tilt lock after a couple hits, hard to approach........maybe it's just my own personal experiences?
imdavid
Smash Journeyman
well most of this could be talked about in the sheik matchup thread -__-
Saki Zatoichi
Smash Ace
I never knew how much can go into a F-Throw.
F-Throw >Fair >SH > Nair. Or you can take the SH out if you've got your opponent juggled in the air.
F-Throw >Fair >SH > Nair. Or you can take the SH out if you've got your opponent juggled in the air.
i remember someone posted this in tactical discussion
sheik footstool combo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3je-k53-DU
sheik footstool combo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3je-k53-DU
That combo's timing is not only ridiculous, it also hopes against hope that the opponent doesn't try to do anything.
Ya any decent player would easily be able to get out of that combo.......I don't really think forward throw leads into anything, most sheik players just use dthrow and react off of what the opponents do........none of her throws really lead into anything.
marsulas: provided the opponent DIs toward you and isn't at some high %, you are actually on the advantage in terms of hitstun and can combo into a fair or uair, possibly a nair. Also, I haven't gotten to watch many Sheik players, but I don't know of many who intentionally use the dthrow...
AmigoOne: Grab release footstool will only work on Wario, and honestly, you're better off just doing grab release ftiltlock or grab release usmash. Does it matter if characters in Brawl are broken or not? If you can tell me why, I'll give you an answer.
AmigoOne: Grab release footstool will only work on Wario, and honestly, you're better off just doing grab release ftiltlock or grab release usmash. Does it matter if characters in Brawl are broken or not? If you can tell me why, I'll give you an answer.
I don't think characters in Brawl are broken at all. Do some characters have an advantage? Yes but they are beatable if you have your character mastered. I actually think Brawl's fighting and gravity mechanics are more realistic(if you can call avideo game that) than Melee's. In melee there were insane combos that it was impossible to get out of but Brawl is a more defensive game so it provides for a little more balance IMHO.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
lmao you can tilt lock wario from grab release? that is ****
no one's broken, but metaknight is pretty crazy since he has, well, zero disadvantages
no one's broken, but metaknight is pretty crazy since he has, well, zero disadvantages
stealthsushi
Smash Apprentice
The amount of "brokeness" that is perceived is probably seeing a character as lacking glaring weakness rather than being overpowered. Brawl appears to have more potential counters for every character overall, which encourages more characters to be played (or secondaried).
I have to agree with Choknater that MK has virtually no disadvantages; his game is just so solid all around. He has trouble with some characters, but the matchup is never highly against him.
I have to agree with Choknater that MK has virtually no disadvantages; his game is just so solid all around. He has trouble with some characters, but the matchup is never highly against him.
popsofctown
Smash Champion
I've had long discussions about the Olimar v. Zelda matchup... it is my strong opinion that Sheik is much much better against Olimar. If your opponent is getting hit by Din's and losing the projectile war, he can't play against Zelda yet, or can't play his own character yet. Zelda most definitely loses the projectile war against Olimar. This leaves Zelda with only a few, unreliable approaches against the defensive beast, and will result in a loss.
Btw, Nayru's Love also will not turn the game in your favor. If he had only purples it would, but he all of his pikmin can be whistled off himself before they even hit olimar a single time. And Nayru's has such long after lag that if he's anywhere within half of FD or so, he can running grab you. It's possible that he can have time to whistle the pikmin off, and still have time to grab.
It's a hard match for Sheik, and any character except Marth or MK. But Zelda has it far worse than Sheik.
Btw, Nayru's Love also will not turn the game in your favor. If he had only purples it would, but he all of his pikmin can be whistled off himself before they even hit olimar a single time. And Nayru's has such long after lag that if he's anywhere within half of FD or so, he can running grab you. It's possible that he can have time to whistle the pikmin off, and still have time to grab.
It's a hard match for Sheik, and any character except Marth or MK. But Zelda has it far worse than Sheik.
Olimar is actually not a difficult matchup for Peach, but that's a little bit off topic.