Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Witchblade]

Puff can rest OoS if you space downsmash?

Bair + needle = bread + butter.

I personally try not to grab at all unless I am certain it will hit, but I play PAL, so the benefit-to-cost is a lot lower than in NTSC.

 

[KirbyKaze]

the further you do d-smash away from someone's block the more punishable it is

and doing it super close = free move oos / shield grab

 

[soap]

no dying to her rest in a flurry of spinny kicks makes you manly *****

jiggs is a tough critic. "Spinny kicks again? not impressed...zzzzzz"

 

[KirbyKaze]

puff's a hater

 

[Tope]

if puff is in the air run up and shield

if she wants to duck you, just roll away and wait zzzzzzzz

 

[Vts]

is it possible to waveland on into a perfect moonwalk jump nair and hit someone with the back of it or moonwalk grab and grab someone from behind :D

saw spaceballs do it will samus using a d-smash so it makes me wanna see a sheik to someone cool like that XD

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Its possible. Is it necessary?

 

[Vts]

Its possible. Is it necessary?

.....



yes!!! :D

gotta always make it cool

 

[giantimi]

got a question about sheik's up b....

if you are recovering and you use the recovery move such that you reappear above somewhere you can land ( in the air ) is the landing lag the same as if you just up b'ed onto the stage?

I hope this makes sense.

 

[Vts]

got a question about sheik's up b....

if you are recovering and you use the recovery move such that you reappear above somewhere you can land ( in the air ) is the landing lag the same as if you just up b'ed onto the stage?

I hope this makes sense.

only if you up-b really high up and land on the ground but just like slightly above the ground u still have lag

 

[soap]

if u do a grounded vanish and go straight up, u will land with no lag. Some people don't know this and miss the punish sometimes

 

[ChivalRuse]

I love abusing the special fall land lag against people who are unfamiliar with it.

 

[Ministry]

thats why i like dk64, yay for them having to cover top/ledge/bottom/barrel/underneath stage/zelda recovery

 

[A New England Winter]

Does BAir do more damage/kb at the foot rather than the entire hitbox, or is it all the same?

Also, does DThrow combo into BAir on anyone?

 

[omgwtfToph]

Yeah bair is definitely stronger at the tip of the foot. You can tell cuz at higher percents there'll be a little star when you hit them.

 

[Lawrencelot]

Yeah bair is definitely stronger at the tip of the foot. You can tell cuz at higher percents there'll be a little star when you hit them.

It has more knockback, but I think the damage is the same. Knockback also depends on the time it's been out

 

[KirbyKaze]

it does more damage/kb at the tip

 

[omgwtfToph]

 

[omgwtfToph]

heyy sheik guys. Sorry for the double post LOL. but can anyone help with some fundamental stuff that probably any sheik main can answer?

1) When am I supposed to JC grab? It seems like boost grabbing and regular dash grabbing covers everything... And I've heard I'm supposed to dash grab when I chaingrab too.

2) When dthrowing Marth, do I have the following correct?

- If he DI's behind, dash back and JC usmash if it'll kill; otherwise utilt
- If he DI's away, either run and grab again (until 70%ish) or dash attack
- If he doesn't DI, utilt or ftilt...?

3) Followup question; is there any way to go from a dthrow into a dair somehow?

thanks!

 

[soap]

heyy sheik guys. Sorry for the double post LOL. but can anyone help with some fundamental stuff that probably any sheik main can answer?

1) When am I supposed to JC grab? It seems like boost grabbing and regular dash grabbing covers everything... And I've heard I'm supposed to dash grab when I chaingrab too.

2) When dthrowing Marth, do I have the following correct?

- If he DI's behind, dash back and JC usmash if it'll kill; otherwise utilt
- If he DI's away, either run and grab again (until 70%ish) or dash attack
- If he doesn't DI, utilt or ftilt...?

3) Followup question; is there any way to go from a dthrow into a dair somehow?

thanks!

1. u don't need the JC that much. its good in real close quarters. real tight dash dance grabs i use JC for. almost like a pivot grab, but easier to do.

2. u can do whatever u want to marth after a dthrow

3. dthrow dair on what character? u can do it to spacies as a tech chase around 50. covers in place tech and nontech. on floaties u can dthrow full jump dair and come down thru their nair. sometimes.

 

[omgwtfToph]

"followup question" implied "in a continuation to question number 2" - so marth

your answer to question 2 isn't helpful lol

 

[soap]

"followup question" implied "in a continuation to question number 2" - so marth

your answer to question 2 isn't helpful lol

di away regrab. everything else I usmash/utilt/uair. Above 100 dthrow fair/uair depending on how i think they will survival DI

 

[KirbyKaze]

heyy sheik guys. Sorry for the double post LOL. but can anyone help with some fundamental stuff that probably any sheik main can answer?

1) When am I supposed to JC grab? It seems like boost grabbing and regular dash grabbing covers everything... And I've heard I'm supposed to dash grab when I chaingrab too.

2) When dthrowing Marth, do I have the following correct?

- If he DI's behind, dash back and JC usmash if it'll kill; otherwise utilt
- If he DI's away, either run and grab again (until 70%ish) or dash attack
- If he doesn't DI, utilt or ftilt...?

3) Followup question; is there any way to go from a dthrow into a dair somehow?

thanks!

1) Do it when you want to run to grab them, but don't want the extra lag. Max range it usually. Most Sheiks get unnecessarily close when trying to grab people. More useful than dash grab in closer quarters, I guess.

2) Teczero add this to the OP because it's the basics about throw comboing Marth and it's very good and silences silly questions about it.

3) Platform, or you call a fast faller's tech

 

[omgwtfToph]

whoa, yeah that was excellent info. thank you very much! (to the both of you)

 

[Nicks]

hey guys i need some help with some specific edgeguards vs spacies. I think they are meant to be guaranteed edgeguards but i keep messing them up.

Scenerio 1: I guess right that fox (or falco) is going to DJ and side B so I fire a needle to hit them out of it. Now they are up B'ing slightly below the stage. What is the best way to proceed with this edgeguard?

Scenerio 2: I get fox (or falco) offstage and they DJ above the height of the stage and up B (so i cant needle them out of it). I know that from this position they have 3 options, sweetspot the edge, go towards you or go diagonally up. Is there a way to cover all three options? I not what is the best way to edgeguard each option (assuming I guess right)?

Thanks in advance

 

[ChivalRuse]

For scenario 1, you pretty much always want to go out there and edgeguard with fair. Drop down and aim to hit them slightly from the side and below (that way you'll make full use of the disjointed hitbox and not have to worry about getting caught by Fox's "charge up" flames or either of their active up-b's).

For scenario 2, you can't really cover all the options every time. If you already threw the needle, then you probably only have time to hit them if they go high (but they almost never will, since they can at least get the ledge for free). If you really need the edgeguard and know they have the option of jumping above your needle's trajectory, you can cover all 3 (or more) up-b options by jumping out and hitting them with 1. fair or 2. bair. You can even use your reverse needle cancel in the air to set up the bair.

In scenario 2, it can also be a good idea to 1. edgehog (using getup attack is probably the best, since it has a hitbox that can hit them if they angle their up-b in the general direction of where you'd be standing up). 2. Grab ledge and ledgehop bair (covers at least 2 options usually and sometimes gives you time to bair again if they up-b in some of the high angles). 3. F-tilt (if it trades, you can often still combo into fair; if they go high, you should have time to hit them or at least pressure them on a platform).

 

[KirbyKaze]

hey guys i need some help with some specific edgeguards vs spacies. I think they are meant to be guaranteed edgeguards but i keep messing them up.

Scenerio 1: I guess right that fox (or falco) is going to DJ and side B so I fire a needle to hit them out of it. Now they are up B'ing slightly below the stage. What is the best way to proceed with this edgeguard?

Scenerio 2: I get fox (or falco) offstage and they DJ above the height of the stage and up B (so i cant needle them out of it). I know that from this position they have 3 options, sweetspot the edge, go towards you or go diagonally up. Is there a way to cover all three options? I not what is the best way to edgeguard each option (assuming I guess right)?

Thanks in advance

1) Run off and do stuff...

Some basic strategies:

Run off Nair/Bair, then either chase them and combo to Fair or (if they drop super low and it becomes difficult to do that) grab the edge and use ledgehop Bairs to kill them

Grab edge quickly (WD FF is recommended), drop DJ Bair

Run off Fair, then either chase them and Fair again or just use your Up+B / DJ to quickly grab the edge and then start ledgehopping Bairs

Grab edge quickly (WD FF is recommended), drop Bair, DJ Bair... if they go too low to DJ Bair then just abort mission and grab the edge to edgehog them or ledgehop Bair them (if they can make it)

2) Jump off and hit them if they're close enough... it's a habit I need to get into. And they often ARE close enough to be hit when people think there isn't an option that covers everything.

Otherwise, if being aggressive offstage won't work, I'd probably recommend grabbing the edge and timing a ledgehop Bair so you cover them going straight, and them going for the edge. Sometimes you can cover everything with Bair... or at least not leave yourself totally lagged. Even if you miss the ledgehop Bair, because they've gone so high, you can often follow them with more Bair, a Nair, F-tilt, or other nonsense.

If you are absolutely sure you know they will go forward, just hit them. With pretty much anything. Bair is good, as is Fair. F-tilt is also great because most people DI in at the edge, and if they don't you can just combo it to needles and then do an easy Bair edgeguard to finish the job.

Beyond those, you have tons of extra stuff to do. It's not a bad idea to trick them if they're smart or good at recovering. Sometimes by charging needles you can trick them into flying into you or upwards, since needles only covers the sweetspot (it helps to edgeguard the sweetspot with needles once or so to make them aware of this). So you charge needles, then cancel them after a bit of their animation, then do something that covers the straight / upwards Firefox options... and that usually involves Bair, Fair, or F-tilt. F-tilt can be great onstage.

Lots of options. They usually involve Bair.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Oh yeah, Toph, something I should add about comboing Marth out of D-throw.

Dash Attack combos on his DI away only until like 60 or so.

Sometimes, after 70 or so, you can cheat a regrab if Marth's DI away. Because they're DIing away and just trying to get away, they won't bother to Side-B or double jump in fear of losing their first Side-B or jump if you Fair them just a little bit late. So at like 70%+ it can sometimes be worth it to go for the regrab just because they often let you have it. Not something to be spammed, but it can be effective for very specific positioning purposes.

Oh, and you'd JC this one.

 

[Jolteon]

hey guys i need some help with some specific edgeguards vs spacies. I think they are meant to be guaranteed edgeguards but i keep messing them up.

Scenerio 1: I guess right that fox (or falco) is going to DJ and side B so I fire a needle to hit them out of it. Now they are up B'ing slightly below the stage. What is the best way to proceed with this edgeguard?

Scenerio 2: I get fox (or falco) offstage and they DJ above the height of the stage and up B (so i cant needle them out of it). I know that from this position they have 3 options, sweetspot the edge, go towards you or go diagonally up. Is there a way to cover all three options? I not what is the best way to edgeguard each option (assuming I guess right)?

Thanks in advance

1) Run off slap.

2) If they are close enough you can just get a free slap, if not then you can either predict where they'll go and punish, or take the ledge and ledgehop b-air --> from this position if they do go upwards then you can just follow them and do stuff (works best on FD where they can't up+b onto a platform and regain their ground options sooner).

 

[gm jack]

Also for 2 you can running full jump then either fair or turn around needle cancel bair then while charging. If you make it a habit to almost always follow them off stage and simply react to what they do, you can get a lot of hits.

That up B charge is seriously long if you put yourself in the right position to react to it.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yeah, aggressive edgeguarding is really good with Sheik. Robs people of a lot of options.

 

[Nicks]

but if you commit to jumping out staight away doesnt that mean they can just side B and get back on stage for free? (unless you are mew2king and can hit spacies out of side B with frame perfect stuff...)

 

[Teczer0]

In certain scenarios they can, but typically aggressive edgeguarding covers multiple options and scares the **** out of your opponent.

Though sometimes sitting back and reacting is better but I think being aggressive is a better idea in most scenarios

 

[KirbyKaze]

but if you commit to jumping out staight away doesnt that mean they can just side B and get back on stage for free? (unless you are mew2king and can hit spacies out of side B with frame perfect stuff...)

when you hear the "ding" you push forward on the c-stick

it's not hard

i can do it lolol and i have no timing whatsoever

 

[Nicks]

when you hear the "ding" you push forward on the c-stick

it's not hard

i can do it lolol and i have no timing whatsoever

awsum i didnt know that, thanks

but wouldnt nair be better than fair since it lasts longer? or does only the strong part of sheiks nair hit them out of it?

 

[KirbyKaze]

you can also push "a" if you feel it's better than hitting forward on the c-stick

weak hit / strong hit doesn't matter

at lower percents, however, you may notice they di the nair well and are able to illusion before your move is finished... even into like the 50%+ range depending on how far they were, or how high they were

fair's angle / faster completion time is nice because it kills this entirely

but yeah nair can still work

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

nair is good when retreating back to the stage because the hitbox to lag ratio is much better

 

[soap]

I like the feeling of just slapping away all hopes of recovery

 

[Teczer0]

My favorite is nair hopping. Its just funnier imo.

 

[KirbyKaze]

f-throw dash sh nair ff is really good if they di the f-throw away

on fox/falco obviously





nair is mainly good 'cuz it's easy

and yeah if you're doing something like run off double jump <move>, drifting back to return to the stage to cover options vs space animals then it makes more sense to nair because its hitbox is out for longer