I'm usually just slow sometimes when it comes to tech chasing. They either spotdodge or shine me, obviously meaning I'm getting there just a tad too late. Is there anything else I can do besides re-grabbing...?
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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA
- Thread starter KirbyKaze
- Start date
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Space the grab > shine (most of the time)
You could also d-smash, f-tilt, etc.
You could also d-smash, f-tilt, etc.
Thanks.
This board is pretty much only me asking stupid questions.
This board is pretty much only me asking stupid questions.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
We try not to talk about that.
You're such a nice guy.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Some day there will be another good Sheik player in this blasted continent. That isn't M2K.
I'll be your guy in about another year.
Or two.
Or two.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
I'd do it but Fox is so much easier.
joejoe22802
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2005
- Messages
- 873
one day .....
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Reposting this here.
Dylan, it occurs to me that I recently improved my tech chasing by just consciously remembering to keep my fingers closer to the Z and A buttons. If you're the kind of player who lifts their fingers far off the hardware while you're waiting for something (this is a pretty common human tendency AFAIK) then you might be able to artificially improve your reaction time by simply having better hand placement. The extra time your fingers spend traveling to hit the button can actually make a huge difference when dealing with frame-specific timings like the regrab tech chase. Something to keep in mind. If you're noticing any similar small factors that could be slowing you down by a bit, that might make a difference.
Joe Joe you got this ^_~
edit:
Dylan, it occurs to me that I recently improved my tech chasing by just consciously remembering to keep my fingers closer to the Z and A buttons. If you're the kind of player who lifts their fingers far off the hardware while you're waiting for something (this is a pretty common human tendency AFAIK) then you might be able to artificially improve your reaction time by simply having better hand placement. The extra time your fingers spend traveling to hit the button can actually make a huge difference when dealing with frame-specific timings like the regrab tech chase. Something to keep in mind. If you're noticing any similar small factors that could be slowing you down by a bit, that might make a difference.
Joe Joe you got this ^_~
R2_GP
Smash Journeyman
full mid-foward (if you want to approach) hops, i've hear this works with other chars besides sheik
L__
Smash Master
you can dtilt their ledge hop double laser
other options are nair oos after the second laser
or jump over/dj over and punish
granted this is assuming falco messes up
i think a fair number of falcos do
other options are nair oos after the second laser
or jump over/dj over and punish
granted this is assuming falco messes up
i think a fair number of falcos do
Xyzz
Smash Champion
If you dodge the lasers by jumping over them, he doesn't have to mess up (besides from shooting too low / shooting at all, obviously. Though it's probably not possible to react to the jump, being a simple human being and stuff :D). First laser can't happen earlier than frame 13 after his ledge jump, the 2nd comes out at frame 29. We are way beyond his invulnerability here, and didn't even consider that he falls for a frame or two, since a full DJ carries him way too high, and he has four frames of landing lag. So if you fall into him after the 2nd laser has already been shot, you're free to hit him.
Also usually you can even catch him between the two lasers if you shield the first one.
With Peach taking lhdl airborne you can often get a nair out before the two of you land. Not really the go-to punish, but if you do happen to take them, you might as well give it a shot (I'm just not sure if this is related to Falco messing up or if Sheik can actually do it as well as Peach, since she does fall a good bit faster).
Laser > down air is fraudulent. You can get a nair out between the laser and the dair. Probably a fair as well, especially if he goes for a late dair.
Also usually you can even catch him between the two lasers if you shield the first one.
With Peach taking lhdl airborne you can often get a nair out before the two of you land. Not really the go-to punish, but if you do happen to take them, you might as well give it a shot (I'm just not sure if this is related to Falco messing up or if Sheik can actually do it as well as Peach, since she does fall a good bit faster).
Laser > down air is fraudulent. You can get a nair out between the laser and the dair. Probably a fair as well, especially if he goes for a late dair.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
This is the world we live in, Blur.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
you made frootloop look like an utter noob.. i also feel watching your matches that you played vs falco better than I typically see m2k do it...but with less grab near the edge or gimps off of it.
Though I am curious what sheik players do when falcos pin you in shield and then space outside of your nair OOS spacing instead of running into it. I feel like pp is really good at pinning people in shield and then baiting moves out of shield and wrecking them for it. I mean if they are respecting your nair you can just WD/roll away but that's a lot of lost stage..you'll then get boxed out at the ledge like always happens to m2k
anyway that was really fun to watch
Though I am curious what sheik players do when falcos pin you in shield and then space outside of your nair OOS spacing instead of running into it. I feel like pp is really good at pinning people in shield and then baiting moves out of shield and wrecking them for it. I mean if they are respecting your nair you can just WD/roll away but that's a lot of lost stage..you'll then get boxed out at the ledge like always happens to m2k
anyway that was really fun to watch
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Sometimes I watch these videos of yours and really, really want to pick up Sheik. But then I remember she's a meanie face.
Also, upsmash is pretty good, huh?
Also, upsmash is pretty good, huh?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I'm just not a very good gimper.
You WD OOS or jump away without doing the nair.
You WD OOS or jump away without doing the nair.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
yeah that's what i do with marth when playing pp..but then i end up next to the ledge
also i felt like your edgeguarding against ICs side b could have been better. But then Fly was dropping like half his grab combos so it might have just been nerves.
also i felt like your edgeguarding against ICs side b could have been better. But then Fly was dropping like half his grab combos so it might have just been nerves.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I agree. I am supposed to fair it over and over again. I messed it up a lot.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
yeah this is what i remember from when i played ICs for two weeks against sheik. if they get the fair rhythm down it doesn't matter what you do..you won't die instantly but you just can't recover in such a way that you won't have enough lag to be caught with the fair. i guess you can edgecancel a platform but sheik can easily position herself to prevent falling to the ledge if you line up for that..and if you go closer intending to go high sheik can just notice and move back and hit you off again with fair or bair
your techchasing improved a lot. I really wish I could do that..every fox/falco just DIs on top of sheik and then mixes up tech rolling or tech in place to shine. Every sheik at the midlevel then adjusts with wd/walk back to be out of shine range, but then they don't have guaranteed punishes on the roll away (i think). probably if they don't wavedash too far it isn't a problem.but i always feel like i am a bit too far out of shine range..need to work on it
your techchasing improved a lot. I really wish I could do that..every fox/falco just DIs on top of sheik and then mixes up tech rolling or tech in place to shine. Every sheik at the midlevel then adjusts with wd/walk back to be out of shine range, but then they don't have guaranteed punishes on the roll away (i think). probably if they don't wavedash too far it isn't a problem.but i always feel like i am a bit too far out of shine range..need to work on it
unknown522
Some guy
^ what?!?!?
Dat ledge invincibility sonyeah that's what i do with marth when playing pp..but then i end up next to the ledge
also i felt like your edgeguarding against ICs side b could have been better. But then Fly was dropping like half his grab combos so it might have just been nerves.
S l o X
Smash Champion
kk
what do you practice when you play alone (or when you did)
what do you practice when you play alone (or when you did)
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
That would take
A very long time to answer
I'll list some of the stuff
Movement stuff:
- RNS SH / FJ > You want to maintain momentum on these or at least have the ability to do so. This opens up your ability to ledge grab in various positions, fall past the edge with aerials from a decent chunk away, or go far offstage for bairs. There are other applications, but these are the main ones.
- Needle edgehog > Kind of difficult, not really worth learning 'cuz there are a lot of similarly quick edgehogs.
- Running vanish offstage > Kind of cute edgehog.
- WD FF edgehog > Faster than normal WD offstage.
- Wavelanding off all the platforms comfortably > Opens up needle options
- Ledgedash > Wanna maximize invulnerability, opens up options, etc.
Combo stuff:
- D-throw dash SH uair > Works vs Puff, Luigi, Samus at 0% > Watch my set vs Vudujin to understand why this is good if it's not clear why
- D-throw regrab > Important in Sheik dittos at 0%, Ganon at 25% > Self explanatory even though I rarely do CG dittos
Attack stuff:
- SH Nair OOS > try to hit the standing Jigglypuff with the strong hit
- SH FF Nair L-cancel > In that order
- SH FF Fair AC > Hit the standing Kirby with it and retain the AC
- SH rising Bair > Hit standing Fox with the sweetspot
- Air needle into grab > Hit crouching Puff with it (you need to hit two needles minimum while descending to do it)
- SH Fair Nair > It's kind of useless but I can do it
I dunno there's more stuff but I'm lazy
A very long time to answer
I'll list some of the stuff
Movement stuff:
- RNS SH / FJ > You want to maintain momentum on these or at least have the ability to do so. This opens up your ability to ledge grab in various positions, fall past the edge with aerials from a decent chunk away, or go far offstage for bairs. There are other applications, but these are the main ones.
- Needle edgehog > Kind of difficult, not really worth learning 'cuz there are a lot of similarly quick edgehogs.
- Running vanish offstage > Kind of cute edgehog.
- WD FF edgehog > Faster than normal WD offstage.
- Wavelanding off all the platforms comfortably > Opens up needle options
- Ledgedash > Wanna maximize invulnerability, opens up options, etc.
Combo stuff:
- D-throw dash SH uair > Works vs Puff, Luigi, Samus at 0% > Watch my set vs Vudujin to understand why this is good if it's not clear why
- D-throw regrab > Important in Sheik dittos at 0%, Ganon at 25% > Self explanatory even though I rarely do CG dittos
Attack stuff:
- SH Nair OOS > try to hit the standing Jigglypuff with the strong hit
- SH FF Nair L-cancel > In that order
- SH FF Fair AC > Hit the standing Kirby with it and retain the AC
- SH rising Bair > Hit standing Fox with the sweetspot
- Air needle into grab > Hit crouching Puff with it (you need to hit two needles minimum while descending to do it)
- SH Fair Nair > It's kind of useless but I can do it
I dunno there's more stuff but I'm lazy
S l o X
Smash Champion
thx
already do the movement stuff good to see im not missing much there. gonna work on the rest
<3
already do the movement stuff good to see im not missing much there. gonna work on the rest
<3
soap
Smash Hero
Sh ff nair is sooo goood
Ahh, i dont know how I went years without seeing the value in this. Definitely worth learning.
The timing to it is very similar to sh ff needle charges. That is something i like to practice as well. Practice reversing it as well to go along with your bair zoning.
Ahh, i dont know how I went years without seeing the value in this. Definitely worth learning.
The timing to it is very similar to sh ff needle charges. That is something i like to practice as well. Practice reversing it as well to go along with your bair zoning.
garrR
Smash Apprentice
bumping my question.
soap
Smash Hero
At 0-10, try and nair out
Above that, I di the throw away then di the utilt back. The utilt kinda pulls u back and if u hold away u just kinda stay in place. So i just go with it. Then the bairs dont combo as well as fairs. Still gotta watch fir the uairs tho.
Above that, I di the throw away then di the utilt back. The utilt kinda pulls u back and if u hold away u just kinda stay in place. So i just go with it. Then the bairs dont combo as well as fairs. Still gotta watch fir the uairs tho.
soap
Smash Hero
Sometimes Marth will just keep turning around with u and utilting. I dont know it sucks. Hopefully there is a platform u can jump away and waveland to
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I think you can jump out at 0-20 or so
At 25%+ it's just a legit combo so probably what soap said
At 25%+ it's just a legit combo so probably what soap said
soap
Smash Hero
It's like when Marths ask me how they get out of my d-throw regrab/usmash/ftilt
I tell them not to get grabbed
I tell them not to get grabbed
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
lately (as marth) i feel like getting uptilted by sheik is so much more dangerous than getting ftilted that you might even be better off letting them regrab at zero than try to di behind and above the sheik and eat the uptilt..it seems like both end up doing the same amount of damage
unknown522
Some guy
SDI the u-tilt up + behind the sheik.
U-tilt is better than f-tilt, but why let them CG you? Just take the damage and try again
U-tilt is better than f-tilt, but why let them CG you? Just take the damage and try again
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
As Marth, just let the Sheik combo you imo. Getting hit by a juicy Sheik combo should be viewed as a privilege. Enjoy the experience while it lasts, for it is but a fleeting moment in this journey called life that we all must travel.
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
I won a tournament going all Sheik it was mad fun
(don't mind the fact there were 8 entrants triple elimination and the grand prize was a bag of peanut M&Ms)
Spacing vs Jiggs is hard though <_< aerial mobility + Bair is like .... mean
(don't mind the fact there were 8 entrants triple elimination and the grand prize was a bag of peanut M&Ms)
Spacing vs Jiggs is hard though <_< aerial mobility + Bair is like .... mean
SacaSuMoto
Smash Journeyman
Why not tomorrow?
unknown522
Some guy
Wenbo: Wtf is triple elim?
Just curious
Just curious
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
Dat bracket
Not true triple elim ... CTL made it so grand finals wouldn't be like 5 sets if we went to max or something ridiculous
unknown522
Some guy
Lol. Wtf