Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[soap]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h15MM11X9Cs

I'm not looking for handouts, I've studied this myself. But I would really appreciate advice from kk, soap, jolteon, l.

The most glaring thing in your neutral game is your hesitation. Not commiting to pressure. You'll have him in shield and you'll wavedash back from him trying to cover a nair oos or a roll but he will just jump or roll away.

When you did go in, you are using too many dash attacks and rising nairs. Both those moves leave you vulnerable when he just chose to stay in shield. Which he did much of the time.

What you should be doing vs. Falcon is ftilt, which you did use somewhat game 2. You don't have to evade his aerials, you can stuff them with ftilt.

What has realllly changed my game is the run > dash cancel > ftilt. This is like my best weapon in this matchup. You can use it to approach on shields, stuff aerials, tech chase, continue combos. Just start subbing that into places where you would normally do a dash attack and you will be pleasantly surprised how much safer your game becomes.

 

[darkatma]

Too many rising full hop aerials with no fastfall afterwards when you were trying to punish him on platforms. The most notable one being at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h15MM11X9Cs&t=2m23s

You do quite a few more that get punished as well. You should try hitting him on your way down from shorthop aerials instead, or rising shorthop aerials.

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h15MM11X9Cs&t=2m33s

 

[unknown522]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h15MM11X9Cs

I'm not looking for handouts, I've studied this myself. But I would really appreciate advice from kk, soap, jolteon, l.

some things for you:

You used dash attack at all the wrong times. You never tech chased him with it ever, first of all. But you also didnt use it in situations where you had the chance, like when he did the falcon kick into your shield. You also go right into his shield with it a couple of times as well, or just come up short.

A lot of times that you were trying to get around his n-air by doing DD -> dash attack, you should've either just don't the dash attack normally so that you wouldn'tve missed, or better yet just f-tilt. Even if you traded with the first hot of n-air it doesn't matter.

That edgeguard setup in game 1 when you b-threw him off and he air dodged, you definitely shouldn'tve f-air'd him. You had enough time to d/u-air.

When you knock him on platforms, you really need to u-air underneath at percents where it will knock him over and just follow-up with more. For example, the time when you jab reset and then u-smashed him.

Also that's another thing. Missing tech chases and giving up traps by trying to u-smash him. Especially that one where he tech rolled to the edge, when he was kind of near the edge game 2. That could've been a gimp setup.

Last thing is when he stole the edge from you near the end of the set, you probably could've wall-jumped and done something to survive that.

 

[Jolteon]

That was pretty nice, but the commentators. . . OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

What is that? It scared me.

Yeah, I agree with you, lol.

Just commentators getting overly hype I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h15MM11X9Cs

I'm not looking for handouts, I've studied this myself. But I would really appreciate advice from kk, soap, jolteon, l.

I'll watch this and comment tomorrow.

 

[darkatma]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaGdI2-jFfM&t=11m15s

check out mah combo

 

[KirbyKaze]

Hot damn Atma

Nice use of the rising 6x air needles as the combo finisher

 

[soap]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaGdI2-jFfM&t=11m15s

check out mah combo

dat utilt

 

[SonuvaBeach]

I enjoyed the **** you put on that Falco. Your sheik is looking a lot better atma than the few games I watched at tbh2, very nice.

 

[darkatma]

That was sheik on 3 months of rust. I'm putting new skates on my sheik and sharpening her needles

something like that

 

[gm jack]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h15MM11X9Cs

I'm not looking for handouts, I've studied this myself. But I would really appreciate advice from kk, soap, jolteon, l.

Are you tech chasing on reaction, or guessing? You seemed to miss almost all of your dthrow follow ups.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Tech chasing is a personal thing.

 

[Sweet™]

Who the hell is Swedish Delight.

 

[Purpletuce]

Sounds like a chocolate, and I want one.

 

[Jolteon]

Sorry for the late reply joejoe. My advice:

Tech chasing: It looks like you aren't reacting to his techs when you tech chase, you're committing to moves before he chooses a tech option (e.g jab, grab in place or usmash), Sheik's strength at covering tech rolls really stems from her ability to react to the option that the opponent selects and so I would suggest practicing it. From what I observe, it looks like the issue you have is you sort of panic before he techs and then preemptively guess what he's going to do, but I could be wrong.

Ledge options: Ledge dash is super good since it's fast and it also gives you the option to use invincible ftilt. I didn't really see you use it.

Crouch: I think you have two problems in this area, 1) I don't think you use it enough and 2) I don't think you're using it properly. A lot of the time you just crouch and sort of sit there for too long and get punished when he spaces correctly. Sheik's crouch is really effective when used with her ground movement since it's a great way to get into spots that are really awkward for Falcon to deal with. I think you could use ASDI down a lot more vs nair.

Neutral game: I think you jump too much, Falcon is good at punishing Sheik's jumps. Work on using ground movement and Sheik's crouch to avoid hits and corner Falcon, sort of ties in with my previous point.

Combos: You need to be more confident and go for more follow-ups, squeeze out more damage from your combos and preferably end it with them in a bad position (off the stage ideally, or in a knockdown state).

Countering shields: I think you attack shields too much. Grab is a really great RPS option with good rewards that conditions them to shield less. Crouching and reacting to their OOS options is also a strong option that you aren't really utilising.

s2j also baits you a lot with shields when he is on a platform and then you commit to a laggy option and then he gets a fat combo on you. I would say to wait more in that situation, to not commit so much (ac/shffl aerials or tilts rather than full hop rising aerials) and to mix-up what you do when he is on a platform (waveland grab or platform cancel -> grab on yoshi's).

 

[joejoe22802]

Thanks Jolt, that's very constructive.

Also how do you guys learn how to combo? My games lacking. Do you look at percents or just go for stuff.

Also how does everyone feel about trying to play unpredictably. I don't know how much it matters if you just play good fundamentals. I've recently been told I'm predictable.

 

[Xyzz]

Regarding combos: I'd recommend hitting lvl 1 to 4 CPUs every once in a while. See what works, and try that vs humans that actually attempt to DI out of your stuff. Also watch videos of good Sheiks (especially M2k, KK) see how they initiate their combos, and what moves they use at what percents (I find this super valuable, because you can pause videos at any time and check percents. Far easier to evaluate combo-ability of moves that way than in the heat of a actual match even if it's just some random friendlies).
Regarding being predictable: Do you have moves that you feel are just perfect in some situations? Is there any way to punish them at all (and if only with ridiculous hard reads)? If so, you need to have alternatives that cover the common counters to what you want to do.
If you're told that you're predictable ask the guy telling you what bad habits he picked up, if you can't tell for yourself where he always gets the 'read', because you're doing the same thing every time.
Common examples where lots of players can be predictable would be tech patterns (can be less complete things like "they never do the same tech option twice in a row during tech chases", which wouldn't mean that your opponent would know what will happen every time, but having to cover less options is certainly helpful) and approaches. Or fishing for some specific move can also become kinda obvious (e.g. lots of fox players when facing a floaty at a percentage where up smash kills will be super obvious that they reallllly want to hit that move which makes it far easier to play around as opposed to if they will throw in dairs / jc grabs)

 

[KirbyKaze]

Happy new year, ****** ninjas!

 

[Kaffei]

u2
ty for playing Sheik

 

[KirbyKaze]

No problem <3

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Transforming into Zelda for recovery. If failure, lose out on invincibility on stock return.

Worth it or not?

 

[Kaffei]

Transforming into Zelda for recovery. If failure, lose out on invincibility on stock return.

Worth it or not?

M2K uses it sometimes on dreamland when he gets knocked off stage really far out & high (cus zelda has better aerial mobility) but that is all i can think of lol

 

[darkatma]

IMO "predictable" just means someone can latch on to your patterns and punish you for them. Ask the person directly "how so?" so you can see what he's punishing you for. Also start picking out your own patterns (I tend to tech in place _________, I roll when _________, I spotdodge a lot right after ________, I run off platforms and attack at this angle when ______.) The better you know yourself the more you'll be able to switch it up when you get punished for a habit.

 

[soap]

Thanks Jolt, that's very constructive.

Also how do you guys learn how to combo? My games lacking. Do you look at percents or just go for stuff.

Also how does everyone feel about trying to play unpredictably. I don't know how much it matters if you just play good fundamentals. I've recently been told I'm predictable.

you can combo alot longer than you think you can if you just don't end them early at the first opportunity for a tipper usmash or a fair

Alot of it has to do with knowing when they will DI against said fair, particularly near the edge, and you can hit them with ftilts/dairs/utilts/weak usmashes repeatedly

I've been trying to combo spacies thru the roof as often as possible, then you will condition them to DI random fairs very badly if you so choose to throw them in.

I also seem to combo into alot of run off fair finishers on good DI away off a dair or ftilt

I don't look at percents to combo, just the launch angles/heights and estimated stun. The only percents I look for is knockdown percents for my ftilt/dash attack.




Years ago, Forward once told me I was extremely predictable. That he knew exactly was I was looking for in every situation. I've consciously thought about having 2-3 different solid options to approach different situations. In terms of sheik this involves either an aerial, a ground move, needle work, or grab. Putting yourself in a good spot with lots of options is moreso good spacing and zoning tho.

In a sense tho there should not be anything truly "unpredictable". You should know all the options against you for the situation. Unpredictability is usually just a variant of timing or some kind of wait, which can also become predictable.

 

[KirbyKaze]

To add to soap's post I skimmed about being predictable

Jank and odd options work because reaction time is faster vs things they're expecting

 

[Deleted member]

Happy new year, ****** ninjas!

merry christmas.

canadians celebrate christmas right

just so you guys know, zelda can sticky her landing to the stage/platform just like sheik can. if you're too far out for the opponent to chase you and they go for an edge hog to cover your options, you can recover into the stage and buffer shield to beat worse players. better ones still get you but you're still strictly better off as zelda there unless you hate switching when you come back.

 

[Jolteon]

Happy new year, guys!

 

[bubbaking]

Transforming into Zelda for recovery. If failure, lose out on invincibility on stock return.

Worth it or not?

M2K uses it sometimes on dreamland when he gets knocked off stage really far out & high (cus zelda has better aerial mobility) but that is all i can think of lol

I often see M2K transform to Zelda when he gets knocked far and high for the better aerial mobility and floatiness, but usually, once he gets close enough, he transforms back and finishes the recovery as Sheik. If it's clear that he won't make it back, he transforms back anyway to keep his invincibility. You don't know the stupid stuff that could be done to Sheik if you give up your invincibility and stand still like that.

 

[Wenbobular]

but you're still strictly better off as zelda there unless you hate switching when you come back.

You lose invincibility when you transform, so unless you enjoy giving other characters a free [insert their best punish at 0 here] then I don't think it's a stellar idea

If you don't transform immediately then you're playing as Zelda

 

[john!]

M2K uses it sometimes on dreamland when he gets knocked off stage really far out & high (cus zelda has better aerial mobility) but that is all i can think of lol

in this scenario is it better to double jump before or after you transform? i usually double jump with sheik then transform (because her DJ is higher), but almost everyone else seems to transform first (maybe because zelda's midair movement is better). any data on which gives more distance?

 

[ShroudedOne]

The sequence is

Transform into Zelda > drift towards stage > transform back into Sheik > DJ

 

[Jolteon]

Transform first, otherwise they can drop down and hit you when you transform back to Sheik before recovering.

 

[bubbaking]

You really need those DJ options as Sheik when you're closer to the stage.

 

[john!]

i thought DJing instantly gave you more momentum towards the stage after being hit off... =/

 

[Metal Reeper]

i thought DJing instantly gave you more momentum towards the stage after being hit off... =/

Lol noooo. Always save your jump. As soon as I see someone jump and then try and float back to recover my goal is then to just trade with them and recover lol.

 

[john!]

i'm talking about pure distance, not options

 

[darkatma]

i thought DJing instantly gave you more momentum towards the stage after being hit off... =/

This is correct afaik.

 

[Strong Badam]

i'm pretty sure it doesn't

 

[darkatma]

Ah darnit, foiled again.
Oh well

 

[SUNG666]

But shouldn't you DJ if you think you're going to die off the sides? Or would you die anyway whether or not you DJ?

 

[Gea]

I'll test it later but I'm pretty sure it'll never save you outright because you can't jump until you're in tumble.

Edit: Tested it. While it is true you cannot jump while still in histun if you are a nose's hair away from dying to the side blastzone jumping will indeed save you as your backwards momentum doesn't just stop when tumble hits. However being in this exact situation is probably fairly rare since the amount it will save you is not as much as you would think.