Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[KirbyKaze]

It's tiny and difficult to see but it's there. The blue twinkle and invincibility (I think?) are overlapping it.

Even if they tech the Fair they still go offstage or you hit them again.

 

[Dynamism?]

It's a really beast hitbox too. It's must be super sekret so it hides.

 

[TresChikon]

Wait, does the blue twinkle mean the move has invincibility? I just thought it was an extra effect.

 

[Spife]

iirc, any blue means there's no hurt box. During her up-b, Sheik turns blue on frame 18, that's when you can't hit her any more. On frame 58 though she comes out of the explosion 100% vulernable.
Frame 18

Other weird invincibilities off the top of my head...Fox has invincibility on his head during his up smash starting around frame 5 ending on frame 9 (some where around there). And falco's legs, which can't be hit or something during charging his dsmash, don't have invincibility. Cute stuff nintendo, cute stuff.

Edit: Jr Magus in training right hurr.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Wait, does the blue twinkle mean the move has invincibility? I just thought it was an extra effect.

Twinkle is extra effect but I'm pretty sure there's invincibility too.

Someone just check SDM.

 

[KirbyKaze]

You can SH rising Nair Jigglypuff and get the strong hit.

 

[nicaboy]

is there anyway to know I'm nairing oos fast enough/as fast as possible?

I wanna know this

 

[AceDudeyeah]

What's the earliest frame sheik can grab the ledge in her up-b?

 

[aquanesia]

um, can you grab when you're crouch canceling?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

you can crouch cancel into a grab if thats what you're asking

 

[TresChikon]

Fox has invincibility on his head during his up smash

Everyone gets invincibility in their heads during an upsmash, except Jigglypuff, cause well...her whole body is her head and that would be ****ed up.

iirc, any blue means there's no hurt box. During her up-b, Sheik turns blue on frame 18, that's when you can't hit her any more. On frame 58 though she comes out of the explosion 100% vulernable.
Frame 18.

That's a lot of invincibility, too bad the land lag makes it horrible.

 

[SPAWN]

Hi KirbyKaze.

That is all.

Spoiler

*end meatride for now*

Actually, I do wanna add one other thing.

Fighting Marth is so much easier than fighting a space animal, it makes me so sad thinking about it.

 

[Spife]

Everyone gets invincibility in their heads during an upsmash, except Jigglypuff, cause well...her whole body is her head and that would be ****ed up.

I didn't check everyone but kirby falcon marth link, none of them have silly invincibility frames with upsmash.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

Wait, does the blue twinkle mean the move has invincibility? I just thought it was an extra effect.

yes we get a tiny bit of invincibility.
in other news screw fox

 

[LooksLikePit]

um, can you grab when you're crouch canceling?

If you press z while holding the control stick down to cc I think you just dtilt. It's not that hard to just let go of the control stick then press z.

 

[SPAWN]

Instead of that... you can do the much better shieldgrab after cc'ing.

Also, I agree with hitbox (I don't really know what I should call you so I'm leaving it as that).

 

[TresChikon]

I didn't check everyone but kirby falcon marth link, none of them have silly invincibility frames with upsmash.

Oh really? I guess I was wrong.

If you press z while holding the control stick down to cc I think you just dtilt. It's not that hard to just let go of the control stick then press z.

JC guys.

 

[pockyD]

... cc => jc grab?

don't think so

 

[KirbyKaze]

CC grabbing via shield is so much easier than CC grabbing via jc grab.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

I see nobody here posseses the knowledge for my frame question

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't think we know.

 

[soap]

i used to jc grabs out of cc.

shield is ten times easier. u just spam A...

 

[AceDudeyeah]

Magus, where you at!

magus420
elvenarrow3000

i also remember some other dude a couple pages ago aspiring to be the new/mini-magus.
where he at!
haha

 

[DJRome]

i hear that buffering using shield+cstick is actually slower than timing it by 1 frame. true?

also, i tend to forget to use utilt a lot. what situation are best for sheik to use utilt vs ftilt? it seems that sometimes instead of uair, it's better to let them fall into an utilt as well.

also, what is the best way to fight falco? lately i've been trying to ps his attacks and lasers into grabs, tilts, and nairs. but i'm getting mixed results.

 

[Spife]

I'm self proclaimed jr magus in training but I can't answer your question

 

[AceDudeyeah]

okay fine, here's a more do-able question. haha
Does her grab window start before or after her invincibilty at frame 18?

 

[soap]

i hear that buffering using shield+cstick is actually slower than timing it by 1 frame. true?

also, i tend to forget to use utilt a lot. what situation are best for sheik to use utilt vs ftilt? it seems that sometimes instead of uair, it's better to let them fall into an utilt as well.

also, what is the best way to fight falco? lately i've been trying to ps his attacks and lasers into grabs, tilts, and nairs. but i'm getting mixed results.

that one frame is no biggy. on average u will gain more frames than u lose, unless u r frame perfect at determining shield stuns.

outside of combos i don't use utilt that much. good people have good spacing and just won't approach that angle. unless they have a super dair in which case u wanna dash dance anyway

 

[DJRome]

well, i noticed that some foxes i fight come in at higher angles to neutralize the ftilt reaction. usually i can just cc into grab, but if they try to go past me or delay, will utilt defeat this angle?

 

[SPAWN]

Yeah when Foxes jump up high and try to nair/dair your utilt will beat it. Done it a buncha times. Also I love it when I catch them at 0 at the highest point. You get 2-3 uptilts and a grab. It's amazing. It usually happens on DL.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Further proof shiek is retardedly gay

 

[Teczer0]

There already is a Magus jr, its name is m2k.

Magus knows so much he STILL surprises me with his knowledge of the game.

And well, congrats to Spawn beating some amazing players at No Johns =3.

But yea.. I wish I can.. but I don't know any of those frame data questions

 

[SPAWN]

Thanks Tec0.

Congrats to nicaboy for beating Linguini. Nicaboy, any tips for a fellow Sheik bro?

 

[DJRome]

guys, sheik is coming back. . .

 

[TresChikon]

... cc => jc grab?

don't think so

CC grabbing via shield is so much easier than CC grabbing via jc grab.

i used to jc grabs out of cc.

shield is ten times easier. u just spam A...

I guess I'm a total scrub lol, but how come it's so bad?

 

[SPAWN]

It's not so much that it's bad as it's 1000000x easier to just shield and then grab. Shield grabbing from a CC is much more reliable for actually pulling off. For example, if you are getting jabbed, you would not be able to cc Jcgrab, or if you could, it'd be extremely difficult. With cc shieldgrabbing, you have a pretty decent chance of grabbing those jabs.

 

[ChivalRuse]

i used to jc grabs out of cc.

I do this.

shield is ten times easier. u just spam A...

I need to start doing this.

It's not so much that it's bad as it's 1000000x easier to just shield and then grab. Shield grabbing from a CC is much more reliable for actually pulling off. For example, if you are getting jabbed, you would not be able to cc Jcgrab, or if you could, it'd be extremely difficult. With cc shieldgrabbing, you have a pretty decent chance of grabbing those jabs.

The problem is that if you input the JC grab a couple frames before you're out of CC stun, the grab might never happen. With shield + mash a, you essentially buffer the grab.

 

[Iron Dragon]

also, i tend to forget to use utilt a lot. what situation are best for sheik to use utilt vs ftilt? it seems that sometimes instead of uair, it's better to let them fall into an utilt as well.

This has went sort of un-answered so I thought I'd step in and try to help a bit.

I find up tilt to be extremely useful on stages that have lower platforms such as Yoshi's Story and Pokemon Stadium(especially YS). This strategy works on most characters but especially well on the fast fallers(Falcon,space animals). Follow where they're running, usually I like to follow them as they run off the platform to the middle and stick out up tilt because you'll then get a grab and tech chases off of it. Up tilt is also very useful against Falcon's stomp because it outprioritizes his stomp completely and gets you grabs which gets you more tech chasing.

I personally think that everything Sheik does should be help for getting you grabs/tech chases. Up tilt is an extremely useful move for this because it has outstanding priority and it can combo well.

also, what is the best way to fight falco? lately i've been trying to ps his attacks and lasers into grabs, tilts, and nairs. but i'm getting mixed results.

Nair out of shield when he shield pressures. It's hard to explain when exactly but sometime a little after his dair on your shield and before the shine is when you want to do this. Youj'll have to do it very fast, get the nair out as you're rising and fall whichever way you want with it. Usually you want to fall forward with it because you'll hit them, they're stunned and this leads to a grab. After grabs, because Falco hits the ground fairly slower than Fox, the tech chasing game is much easier than vs Fox. Remember, it's important to react to his techs as best as you can. I've also found that if you can space the tip of your ftilt as he's dairing at you, that works pretty decently and can lead to combos or grab.

If they come down on you with full jump dair, your up air will beat that out, which can lead to utilt,ftilt,grab. Try to learn power shielding, even if just slightly because that obviously helps a ton with lasers.

Roll like a noob.

Make sure to always DI away because if Falco gets a shine it can follow up like crazy if you don't DI and even if you do it may be able to combo because Falco is an ******* like that. It's important that after one shine that Falco only gets maybe one more dair shine after that because you can DI away after the 2nd one. Be sure to take advantage of Falco's mosrly ****ty recovery. Illusions can be handled with a reaction with ftilt and slap if they decide for the stage. For the edge, dsmash can be used but if they sweetspot then that's a little more difficult. You can also run out there and do a retreating nair onto the stage because that can hit under the stage slightly. If they're near the wall and hugging the wall try to strong hit bair for a free kill unless they tech but then after the tech you could probably jump and slap again then edge hog for the kill.

Yeah this matchup is very hard because Falco's lasers can really create a problem with locking you down and dair can be annoying to get around, but with a lot of patience it can be done. Be sure to watch many videos of Mew2King vs Falcos not named Mango or Zhu at Genesis for good showings of how to do the matchup. Amsah vs Zhu from Pound and Kira vs any Falco is also good to watch mostly.

Wow, that was a long *** write-up, I didn't even mean to do that @_@

*subscribes to thread*

 

[KirbyKaze]

i hear that buffering using shield+cstick is actually slower than timing it by 1 frame. true?

No. If you shield grab from cc perfectly it's the same speed as perfect JC grab from cc. Shield adds 1 frame, JC adds 1 frame.

also, i tend to forget to use utilt a lot. what situation are best for sheik to use utilt vs ftilt? it seems that sometimes instead of uair, it's better to let them fall into an utilt as well.

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Utilt if they are above you. Ftilt if they are more in front of you than above you. Utilt > Uair usually because Sheik doesn't move much in the air. Uair is sometimes better. Bair is often better for anti-air because of hitbox and stuff.

also, what is the best way to fight falco? lately i've been trying to ps his attacks and lasers into grabs, tilts, and nairs. but i'm getting mixed results.

Falco is just spacing aerial so you can follow and hit him but he can't counterattack effectively. Oh and grab --> gimp or stock tech chase.

Camp on a platform and coax him into not lasering under one by charging needles where you won't be hit by SHL.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

haha, looks like my quest for frame-data based playing is at an end.
I was going to use the info. to see if it would be beneficial to quickly ledgehop and grab the edge in some situations for another 30 frames of invincibilty to help against sheik's up-b when edgeguarding her.

 

[TresChikon]

It's not so much that it's bad as it's 1000000x easier to just shield and then grab. Shield grabbing from a CC is much more reliable for actually pulling off. For example, if you are getting jabbed, you would not be able to cc Jcgrab, or if you could, it'd be extremely difficult. With cc shieldgrabbing, you have a pretty decent chance of grabbing those jabs.

Oh wow, thanks.

I believe an added benefit is that the shield also adds on some extra traction, so it would make the grab easier as well.