Simikins
Nerfed
Beating Counter with Grenade
Often when an opponent counters, you have to wait until it ends to get a small punish. With this trick, you can get early kills, and you don’t even have to wait.
How this works, and who it works on:
To understand this you need to know a little bit about the two moves involved in this. Counter, and Sheik’s burst grenade.
Measurements were done on the sonic 3DS stage Green Hill Zone (Image of it here), using the squares.
Counter info (Who has a counter, etc.)
Burst Grenade Info
Now for the actual tech
If you throw the grenade at a counter the first hit will activate it, but you will be safe as the 9 squares of the thrown grenade outranges all counters that stay in place when activated, leaving them to get hit by the grenade explosion. Because of how different every counter is...
There are two methods of execution for this tech:
Method 1: - Throw the grenade at a counter and activate the grenade as normal.
This method has more combo follow ups, so on the two characters that this works on it is better to do method 1 over method 2. See this thread for some good grenade combos.
Works on:
Method 2: - Throw the grenade at a counter, but continue to hold special so the the grenade doesn’t activate, and let the hit of counter hit the grenade shell.
Doing this will activate the fast explosion, which deals more damage and knockback, and works on more characters.
The only combo out of this is Bouncing Fish.
Works on:
DLC characters with counters that will be tested on release:
Corrin - Based on how his counter looks like it works, I think that this will work.
Bayonetta - Based on how it looks like her counter works, I highly doubt this will work.
This is overall a good thing to keep in mind when playing against characters with counters, as if you predict a counter, or they do an obvious one, it can lead to an early kill, which helps Sheik tremendously.
All of this was tested by Simikins (Myself) & @Wasserwipf , who also made the GIFs.
Hope this helps all you ninjas in some way, if you get this in a game please link a video or GIF and I’ll put it, along with your name, in this little box!
Often when an opponent counters, you have to wait until it ends to get a small punish. With this trick, you can get early kills, and you don’t even have to wait.
How this works, and who it works on:
To understand this you need to know a little bit about the two moves involved in this. Counter, and Sheik’s burst grenade.
Measurements were done on the sonic 3DS stage Green Hill Zone (Image of it here), using the squares.
Counter info (Who has a counter, etc.)
Every counter is different. The amount of time they last, how far the attack reaches, and strength of each attack varies between every counter. For more information on every different counter see http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4.
Every character that has a counter, and the distances each reaches are listed below.
Characters with counters are:
Shulk - Travels 11 squares on hit
Greninja - Travels 17 squares (in chosen direction) on hit
Lucario - Travels 17 squares (in chosen direction) on hit
Little Mac - Travels 6 squares on hit
Marth - Attack reaches 4 squares on hit
Ike - Attack reaches 4 1/2 squares on hit
Lucina - Attack reaches 3 squares on hit
Roy - Attack reaches 5 squares on hit
Peach - Attack reaches 5 squares on hit
Palutena - Attack reaches 5 squares on hit
Some characters move a set distance when their counter is activated by a hit. Those characters are:
Shulk - Travels 11 squares on hit
Greninja - Travels 17 squares (in chosen direction) on hit
Lucario - Travels 17 squares (in chosen direction) on hit
Little Mac - Travels 6 squares on hit
Counters, when activated by a hit, experience a significant amount of lag. The lag varies between characters. The lag is also higher (for certain characters) if the counterattack actually hits someone.
Every character that has a counter, and the distances each reaches are listed below.
Characters with counters are:
Shulk - Travels 11 squares on hit
Greninja - Travels 17 squares (in chosen direction) on hit
Lucario - Travels 17 squares (in chosen direction) on hit
Little Mac - Travels 6 squares on hit
Marth - Attack reaches 4 squares on hit
Ike - Attack reaches 4 1/2 squares on hit
Lucina - Attack reaches 3 squares on hit
Roy - Attack reaches 5 squares on hit
Peach - Attack reaches 5 squares on hit
Palutena - Attack reaches 5 squares on hit
Some characters move a set distance when their counter is activated by a hit. Those characters are:
Shulk - Travels 11 squares on hit
Greninja - Travels 17 squares (in chosen direction) on hit
Lucario - Travels 17 squares (in chosen direction) on hit
Little Mac - Travels 6 squares on hit
Counters, when activated by a hit, experience a significant amount of lag. The lag varies between characters. The lag is also higher (for certain characters) if the counterattack actually hits someone.
Burst Grenade Info
Sheik’s Burst Grenade has 3 separate damaging stages.
The first is the physical grenade shell, when you throw the grenade. This is a single hit active from frame 15 that deals 1% damage.
The grenade shell travels 9 squares in front of sheik.
The second is the suction. There are two suction ‘hits’ each dealing 1% damage. They are active from frame 28 - 48 after the input.
The suction can suck in opponents to the explosion from 5 squares.
The third is the explosion, which deals 12% damage and activates on frame 49.
If the grenade shell is hit before the detonation (which starts on frame 28) then it will explode instantly and deal more knockback and more damage (14%). It is possible to hold special and delay the detonation. This tech is called Sponge Nade (Discovered by @saviorslegacy and well named by @Absol ).
The first is the physical grenade shell, when you throw the grenade. This is a single hit active from frame 15 that deals 1% damage.
The grenade shell travels 9 squares in front of sheik.
The second is the suction. There are two suction ‘hits’ each dealing 1% damage. They are active from frame 28 - 48 after the input.
The suction can suck in opponents to the explosion from 5 squares.
The third is the explosion, which deals 12% damage and activates on frame 49.
If the grenade shell is hit before the detonation (which starts on frame 28) then it will explode instantly and deal more knockback and more damage (14%). It is possible to hold special and delay the detonation. This tech is called Sponge Nade (Discovered by @saviorslegacy and well named by @Absol ).
Now for the actual tech
If you throw the grenade at a counter the first hit will activate it, but you will be safe as the 9 squares of the thrown grenade outranges all counters that stay in place when activated, leaving them to get hit by the grenade explosion. Because of how different every counter is...
There are two methods of execution for this tech:
Method 1: - Throw the grenade at a counter and activate the grenade as normal.
This method has more combo follow ups, so on the two characters that this works on it is better to do method 1 over method 2. See this thread for some good grenade combos.
Works on:
Peach
Palutena
Those two characters experience enough lag after their counterattack that they cannot act before the explosion.
Method 2: - Throw the grenade at a counter, but continue to hold special so the the grenade doesn’t activate, and let the hit of counter hit the grenade shell.
Doing this will activate the fast explosion, which deals more damage and knockback, and works on more characters.
The only combo out of this is Bouncing Fish.
Works on:
Peach - Note: Only works if she doesn't hit you as her hurtbox goes too low to be hit if she does.
Palutena
Marth
Ike
Lucina
Roy
Little Mac
Those characters experience enough lag after their counterattack that they cannot act before the explosion.
DLC characters with counters that will be tested on release:
Corrin - Based on how his counter looks like it works, I think that this will work.
Bayonetta - Based on how it looks like her counter works, I highly doubt this will work.
This is overall a good thing to keep in mind when playing against characters with counters, as if you predict a counter, or they do an obvious one, it can lead to an early kill, which helps Sheik tremendously.
All of this was tested by Simikins (Myself) & @Wasserwipf , who also made the GIFs.
Hope this helps all you ninjas in some way, if you get this in a game please link a video or GIF and I’ll put it, along with your name, in this little box!
- Simikins
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