Sheik vs Marth

[rocker5743]

Marths up-throw uptilt literally lose me games. Is there any way at all to escape them? I don't play a campy Sheik but if I try to run away to gain some space and charge needles I either get dash attacked because I'm too slow or I jump on a platform and get up tilted there too. And each up tilt leads to a 50%+ combo because I just don't know how to get out of it. Each hit leads into another. Is there nothing else but don't get grabbed? Also the marth I mainly plays against just d tilts and f smashes the ledge making it really hard for me to come up and not get hit. I just need advice because I'm not bad at this game, this matchup especially with my roommate frustrates me to no end. Marth makes me rage so hard..

 

[shairn]

You should learn to ledge dash, it can get you out of tight spots when recovering and Sheik has a pretty easy to execute ledge dash. This can be coupled with Shino stalling to wait until the opportune moment to catch him off guard.

Don't get above Marth. That's pretty much the worst place you could be. Sheik has trouble in the air when she's not comboing, so you shouldn't be needlessly jumping above him anyway. You'll want to DD/Dash->wavedash back to bait him into doing something punishable like a grab, dash attack or fsmash after which you can follow up with your own dash attack or grab. Either way you're pretty much guaranteed to get a combo started and rack up percents.

Charging needles in neutral is a bad idea, wait until he's offstage or between stocks. As for escaping utilts once you're in them, you should save your double jump to try and bait him into whiffing an utilt to get back down safely. If you're on a triangular stage, getting up on the top platform means he has to DJ uair to continue the juggle, which is slower and much more manageable than utilt. Of course, you have to get down from there so you'll want to practice your platform movement. You can also shield drop nair after a shielded uair.

 

[rocker5743]

Yeah I can ledge dash and stall, I think I just need to mix things up. I started trying to put in some wall jump bairs to get him off but those don't send him far if he's low on percent and don't help if hes not hugging the ledge.
Needlessly jumping is probably my biggest problem. Also maybe the spacing on my DD because I seem to get hit with his dash attack too much. My problem is that all he needs is one grab to either end my stock or get it close. I'll try and bait out the double jump uair because it's slower, thanks.
Would SDI help me get out of the juggles faster? I kind of know how it's done, but being able to use it and know if it worked is different

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Marths up-throw uptilt literally lose me games. Is there any way at all to escape them? I don't play a campy Sheik but if I try to run away to gain some space and charge needles I either get dash attacked because I'm too slow or I jump on a platform and get up tilted there too. And each up tilt leads to a 50%+ combo because I just don't know how to get out of it. Each hit leads into another. Is there nothing else but don't get grabbed? Also the marth I mainly plays against just d tilts and f smashes the ledge making it really hard for me to come up and not get hit. I just need advice because I'm not bad at this game, this matchup especially with my roommate frustrates me to no end. Marth makes me rage so hard..

Let loose your needles on his approach. Better than getting hit.

Marth's Utilt will send you at some angle behind him (except his super low to the ground hitbox on the move) in which case do not DI towards Marth's foward direction. DI behind him to avoid more follow-up attacks. Alternatively, you can jump out of Uthrow -> Utilt, but it costs you your jump. Alternatively, you can mix-up simply trying to Nair after the Uthrow if Marth attempts to assume you might jump. At best you hit Marth and escape for his blunder, or you get to worry about the next thing.

If Marth is randomly throwing out Dtilt/Fsmash at the ledge you just wait, then get on with ledgedash into whatever to punish him. You just have to work on the timing and reaction bit to make it work.

Don't get above Marth. That's pretty much the worst place you could be. Sheik has trouble in the air when she's not comboing, so you shouldn't be needlessly jumping above him anyway. You'll want to DD/Dash->wavedash back to bait him into doing something punishable like a grab, dash attack or fsmash after which you can follow up with your own dash attack or grab. Either way you're pretty much guaranteed to get a combo started and rack up percents.

Charging needles in neutral is a bad idea, wait until he's offstage or between stocks. As for escaping utilts once you're in them, you should save your double jump to try and bait him into whiffing an utilt to get back down safely. If you're on a triangular stage, getting up on the top platform means he has to DJ uair to continue the juggle, which is slower and much more manageable than utilt. Of course, you have to get down from there so you'll want to practice your platform movement. You can also shield drop nair after a shielded uair.

Let me know how well that works if all Marth does is Dtilt and you find yourself back to the ledge from all those wavedash backs.

Charging needles is really not bad either. If Marth got close you simply let loose your stock of needles and you are sort of back to where you started before charging.

 

[Missile]

Being above Marth is the best for him and the worst for you, since Melee.

Try to DI away from him as much as you can, and try to "not get hit" while in the air. Don't try to hit him if you're above him. Every attempt to do so will result in you getting hit or even killed. His approaches are limited to aerials like Nair, Fair, or Bair, and grounded attacks like run-up down-tilt or run-up forward-smash, as well as grabs.

These approaches are mostly linear and very obvious. Slow him down and rack up damage using needles against his approaches. Keep away from him until you can get a combo starter (any tilt) or until you can grab him.

On the topic of recovery, if he's waiting for you on the ledge, don't rush to get in as soon as you grab the ledge. Shino stall until he gets bored/angry and lets you come in for free, and if he's too close, f-air to ledge re-grab, fall back, jump forward and needle cancel to grab, or down smash, or wavedash into the stage into a shield, grab or down-smash, with a different option every time to keep yourself from being predictable.

 

[Steel]

Sheik is one of the few characters that has the tools to get inside marth's zoning and stay there. Sheik's camping tools are great, but Marth can also just block and keep approaching and he can catch you on your heels and have you cornered. Once you're inside his sword, you can body him. This match up is really close, closer than brawl. But Sheik is faster and Marth is a little slower. We'll see how this match up pans out.

 

[Beta_Smash]

Hi, I'm new to the boards. I wanted to know if I could play the matchup the same way it's played in Melee?

I can confirm that Marth has a fthrow chain grab on Sheik from 0% and can get 2 or 3 regrabs *depends on DI of course* which Marth can end in a Fsmash. If you DI up and towards Marth it will prevent a tipper most of the time. When I DI away I eat a tipper Fsmash and am knocked very far off of the stage. This alone wrecked me my very first tournament.

 

[Missile]

If you're getting chainthrown by marth's fthrow, you need to DI down and away to get out immediately. He shouldn't chainthrow you. You can't chainthrow him unless he does bad DI as well, and even then it's a lot easier and effective to follow up with a smash or aerial attack instead of another throw.

Also remember that he won't ground you from 0% with his fthrow, so when you DI away from it, if he's going to follow up with another grab make sure to roll away from him, into him, jab him twice, spot dodge his grab, etc. mix it up, so he either gets punished for doing the same thing or so that you can cover his options with a counter to them.

 

[Thosman]

I think we all have that one Marth main friend who always somehow makes us rage. Ive been trying the needle repetition and trying to stay on the ground against him. Using grabs to start combos works well too. However he adapted to me midgame and started doing dtilts and fgrab into fsmash against me. Hes really good at hitting tippers and once he starts with the uptilts its hard to get out of. Anyone got any ideas?