...*sigh*
putting down Frigate, Lylat, and Yoshi's Island for Pit. Next is Ness.
putting down Frigate, Lylat, and Yoshi's Island for Pit. Next is Ness.
-
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Sheik's Counterpicks Against Specific Characters (Link current)
- Thread starter Lore
- Start date
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
bump for life?
choknater
Smash Obsessed
Sheik should pick Battlefield against Ness, IMO. Giving him space to move allows him to be free with his aerial spacing, which is very good. Yoshi's Island is great too. Anything with a lot of platforms, or big platforms, where he can't maneuver as well as Sheik can.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
yea with less space for him to move around it draws him closer to our inside game.
not to mention grab release
not to mention grab release
Flamingo
Smash Lord
Agreed. In my experience, Ness's Fair ***** us Sheiks. Battlefield is good. Although the Ness's I play against complain that Lylat and FD are bad for his recovery... just throwing that out there.
Forgot about this thread. Whoops.
put down battlefield and yoshi's island for ness, moving on to peach.
I personally like Bf and norfair for this matchup myself.
put down battlefield and yoshi's island for ness, moving on to peach.
I personally like Bf and norfair for this matchup myself.
Dr. Hyde
Smash Ace
pardon me if I wake the sleeping Sheik boards but I am trying get a good grasp of Sheik and after reading through the thread and avoiding the flame spam I would like to ask why is Norfair so favorable?
Multiple edges? Is there some crazy tech that IDK about on it?
Multiple edges? Is there some crazy tech that IDK about on it?
FrozenFire13
Smash Ace
Well since one of Peach's main strategies is float canceling, we need stages that interfere with that, right? How bout pictochat, pirate ship, and the pokemon stadiums?
Choknater wrote a big thread about the stage.......you can probably search Norfair and it will pull it up.
Flamingo
Smash Lord
On the Peach matchup, I suggest Lylat and Yoshi's due to the uneven surface that will mess with Peach's floating. Ehhh. Do these uneven surfaces also hinder Peach's ability of chucking turnips? That might be something to consider. I havent played good peach players, but these are things that just came to mind that might have a negative effect upon her play. Similarly, I wouldn't suggest battlefield or FD because... well... she should be able to float fine.
PS. I think that the tilting of Lylat in addition to it's already uneven surface will mess with the Peach players also, I'm not sure, but it is a possibility. Ask Ankoku, I think he has played Peach some, he would probably be both able to confirm what I just suggested, and give good advice on this stage selection.
PS. I think that the tilting of Lylat in addition to it's already uneven surface will mess with the Peach players also, I'm not sure, but it is a possibility. Ask Ankoku, I think he has played Peach some, he would probably be both able to confirm what I just suggested, and give good advice on this stage selection.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
PEACH!!!
If there's any Sheik matchup that I know, I definitely know this one the best.
***DOOOON'T PICK BATTLEFIELD! This may be Sheik's best stage against a lot of different characters, but Sheik needs WAY more space to beat Peach. Battlefield just enhances Peach's priority and doesn't let Sheik have any breathing room to space or charge needles.
The matchup is even on Smashville. So for a random neutral, just hope for this stage or FD.
Out of the random neutrals... I'd say FD is the best. Sheik has room to space and charge needles, which is the main thing that Sheik has in this matchup. Space with bairs, punish with utilt if she floats above you, and randomly DACUS if she is spacing with float (It will sometimes tipper... credit goes to CHAMP for helping me realize that.) You can even space vanish KO's!
The main problem is that an aggressive Peach will outprioritize Sheik... So you need a lot of space! Sheik will win in a larger stage. That's why you should stay away from Battlefield, Yoshi's Island, and Delfino. You want space to move!
If Luigi's Mansion is legal... go there so you can ftilt her
If Norfair is legal... Go there of course!!! Sheik's maneuverability here is tooooo good! You can overpower Peach with sheer speed, and Vanish KO's are really good on this stage.
Sheik likes platforms... but so does Peach. This matchup is very difficult, but manageable as long as you space and pressure well. Pressuring Peach is very difficult because she can apply the same amount of pressure (Peach's aerials, jabs, and glide tosses all have VERY little lag so she has an amazing pressure game that rival's Sheik's.) The main thing is that Peach cannot move across a stage as quickly as Sheik.
So if I had to pick a stage... off the top of my head it would be FD.
Luigi's (space+tilt locks) and Norfair (enhanced speed), IF THEY ARE LEGAL.
To Flamingo: Since Peach's aerials have little lag on any stage, she can do fine whether there are slopes or not. Sloped stages actually work against me sometimes because a lot of my spacing requires needles... which don't work on slopes. I think countering Peach's close range space control is more important when picking the stage.
If there's any Sheik matchup that I know, I definitely know this one the best.
***DOOOON'T PICK BATTLEFIELD! This may be Sheik's best stage against a lot of different characters, but Sheik needs WAY more space to beat Peach. Battlefield just enhances Peach's priority and doesn't let Sheik have any breathing room to space or charge needles.
The matchup is even on Smashville. So for a random neutral, just hope for this stage or FD.
Out of the random neutrals... I'd say FD is the best. Sheik has room to space and charge needles, which is the main thing that Sheik has in this matchup. Space with bairs, punish with utilt if she floats above you, and randomly DACUS if she is spacing with float (It will sometimes tipper... credit goes to CHAMP for helping me realize that.) You can even space vanish KO's!
The main problem is that an aggressive Peach will outprioritize Sheik... So you need a lot of space! Sheik will win in a larger stage. That's why you should stay away from Battlefield, Yoshi's Island, and Delfino. You want space to move!
If Luigi's Mansion is legal... go there so you can ftilt her
If Norfair is legal... Go there of course!!! Sheik's maneuverability here is tooooo good! You can overpower Peach with sheer speed, and Vanish KO's are really good on this stage.
Sheik likes platforms... but so does Peach. This matchup is very difficult, but manageable as long as you space and pressure well. Pressuring Peach is very difficult because she can apply the same amount of pressure (Peach's aerials, jabs, and glide tosses all have VERY little lag so she has an amazing pressure game that rival's Sheik's.) The main thing is that Peach cannot move across a stage as quickly as Sheik.
So if I had to pick a stage... off the top of my head it would be FD.
Luigi's (space+tilt locks) and Norfair (enhanced speed), IF THEY ARE LEGAL.
To Flamingo: Since Peach's aerials have little lag on any stage, she can do fine whether there are slopes or not. Sloped stages actually work against me sometimes because a lot of my spacing requires needles... which don't work on slopes. I think countering Peach's close range space control is more important when picking the stage.
rinoH
Smash Lord
man chok your on a roll imo though i would rather cp Norfair against Peach
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
I assume you mean cancelling the float and not actually cancelling the lag of an aerial? The latter is only in Melee, Peach just got given awesome auto cancel windows to compensate.
Flamingo
Smash Lord
Ok thanks for clearing that up! haha, yeah I don't know much about this matchup but VERY VERY helpful in-depth post. Werekill listen to this man. :D
To BlisteringSpeed: Love the new avatar.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
Thank you. (:
Voyeur
Smash Journeyman
I was thinking perhaps Rumble Falls for going against Peach, since any of her bonus from levitation and being floaty becomes a disadvantage as the stage will continue to force her to move up, and your mobility takes it on with ease.
the Chain becomes a good tool in the tighter spots on this level, you get some good b-air moments when the peach is caught in the air. For Sheik the level is completely background, you don't even have to focus on it while you're easily maneuvering. Idk if this level is ever legal but, yup.
-Mock away.
the Chain becomes a good tool in the tighter spots on this level, you get some good b-air moments when the peach is caught in the air. For Sheik the level is completely background, you don't even have to focus on it while you're easily maneuvering. Idk if this level is ever legal but, yup.
-Mock away.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
Not legal, but that is definitely an interesting strategy hahahaa.
Voyeur
Smash Journeyman
Oh yes then, I've checked the banned levels now, what a shame.
Other then that Norfair is really great against Peach just like you said. And perhaps Skyworld for another CP
Other then that Norfair is really great against Peach just like you said. And perhaps Skyworld for another CP
Voyeur
Smash Journeyman
so Smashville, Luigi's Mansion and Norfair for Peach?
Also I think Skyworld should be tacked onto Pikachu, even with the top platforms destroyed the clouds stop the thunder, leaving on the right hand side chained platform for an open thunder. And the space between the top & left only.
And if the main fighting platforms are destroyed and the Pikachu player isn't familiar with the dynamics, he might accidentally try to DownB and end up following through the clouds.
It also makes QAC more difficult against the clouds. So, I think it's a pretty good CP
EDIT: if it's not Banned at the tourney that is.
Also I think Skyworld should be tacked onto Pikachu, even with the top platforms destroyed the clouds stop the thunder, leaving on the right hand side chained platform for an open thunder. And the space between the top & left only.
And if the main fighting platforms are destroyed and the Pikachu player isn't familiar with the dynamics, he might accidentally try to DownB and end up following through the clouds.
It also makes QAC more difficult against the clouds. So, I think it's a pretty good CP
EDIT: if it's not Banned at the tourney that is.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
Lol Champ is just being funny. But yeah he's right.
FD and Smashville both make the matchup neutral since you have room to move around. It's probably just a matter of preference though... I like FD ;D
FD and Smashville both make the matchup neutral since you have room to move around. It's probably just a matter of preference though... I like FD ;D
FrozenFire13
Smash Ace
Well yeah....and Rumble Falls.
Voyeur
Smash Journeyman
Oh right, his matches against that Peach player on Smashville and then against a Wario player. You did really awesome and have great skills 'Champ' I thought.
Sarcasm?.....but XD I wish Rumble Falls. It wrecks Peach, seriously. Any trouble I have with her on Norfair or any neutral become null and void against the more then difficult lvl 9 CPU. But it's banned apparently ;(
[Rumble Falls XX XX Overly advantages character's with better jumps ] -SmashWiki
I guess honestly any neutral and Norfair for a CP against peach
Sarcasm?.....but XD I wish Rumble Falls. It wrecks Peach, seriously. Any trouble I have with her on Norfair or any neutral become null and void against the more then difficult lvl 9 CPU. But it's banned apparently ;(
[Rumble Falls XX XX Overly advantages character's with better jumps ] -SmashWiki
I guess honestly any neutral and Norfair for a CP against peach
boy i wasn't kidding! This guy haha. Smashville is too legit vs Peach. She gets blindsided there.
Champ is my real name btw. Those r old vids now I think. Thanks for the compliment though.
Smashville is the best stage for sheik neutral wise. Castle Siege for counter pick. This is so biased.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Castle siege give's +10 to all champ related skills this is especially true if his song comes on.
Anyone who knows champ would immediately ban this stage in a competitive setting even though it technically does very little for the actual characters Champ uses.
Good to see you post again Champ.
thanks for the correction Tristan. Castle Siege with Attack song on only. I still haven't lost there with that song on. It's the best stage and music ever.
People still banned this on me so I just go halberd and switch to fox haha. Otherwise I go to good old castle siege.
I haven't been playing for a bit cause of Tatsunoko vs Capcom. Great game, try it out. Imma be a bit more active now though since my friend took my TVC haha. I still go to tourney but majors one only. I just got 17th out of 250 people I think at WGF. Funny thing was besides me, the 2nd lowest char that make to the bracket was kirby. Too good
Canvasofgrey
Smash Ace
In general, bigger stages benefit Shiek and Peach. And platform stages do the same, so really it's all about the player's skill here. Or if you are really desperate for a perk, stages with low ceilings could prove noteworthy. Though once again, Peach has equal opportunity on the light Shiek.
Okies, just remembered this thread.
Put down, FD, smashville, and Luigi's mansion.
Next up is Mario. I suggest Castle Siege, since his princess isn't there.
Put down, FD, smashville, and Luigi's mansion.
Next up is Mario. I suggest Castle Siege, since his princess isn't there.
Voyeur
Smash Journeyman
I haven't had many opportunities to face decent Mario's, but I do know the little groove in YI can help if you react quickly to a fast needle cape return. Corneria as well.
EDIT;side note: back to Pikachu, Skyworld is awesome, trust me. If it's legal
I'll add to this by stating how the advantage comes from the clouds being solid enough to stop thunder from raining down on you except for in 2 parts of the map and the fact the clouds are also transparent enough so that it makes it difficult for QAC.
Wall teching becomes your friend and the extra platforms around become no problem for Sheik and since Pikachu's quick attack isn't always a for sure thing with the quirky resetting of the solid level along with side-B being easily punished upon recovery; it makes Pikachu's game decrease.
B-spam happy Pikachu players can just get canceled if you camp one of the sides (preferably the left) and refuse to use your power shield or dodge but instead use the AAA Jab to cancel each Jolt, you have to keep rehitting the Jabs since it cancels your attack as well. But it will force Pikachu player to come to you; giving control.
EDIT;side note: back to Pikachu, Skyworld is awesome, trust me. If it's legal
I'll add to this by stating how the advantage comes from the clouds being solid enough to stop thunder from raining down on you except for in 2 parts of the map and the fact the clouds are also transparent enough so that it makes it difficult for QAC.
Wall teching becomes your friend and the extra platforms around become no problem for Sheik and since Pikachu's quick attack isn't always a for sure thing with the quirky resetting of the solid level along with side-B being easily punished upon recovery; it makes Pikachu's game decrease.
B-spam happy Pikachu players can just get canceled if you camp one of the sides (preferably the left) and refuse to use your power shield or dodge but instead use the AAA Jab to cancel each Jolt, you have to keep rehitting the Jabs since it cancels your attack as well. But it will force Pikachu player to come to you; giving control.
stealth3654
Smash Lord
Lylat can mess with mario's recovery, pressure game, and maybe protect us from his down B while recovering.
Battle field since sheik can utilize the platforms better than mario and can use the platforms to get out of the way of mario's fireballs and follow ups.
Battle field since sheik can utilize the platforms better than mario and can use the platforms to get out of the way of mario's fireballs and follow ups.
Voyeur
Smash Journeyman
yeah' I'd agree on those the lylat situation for sure. Norfair of course is always an option when it comes to the platform game and it's really simple to gimp Mario since he has pretty poor recovery.
Flamingo
Smash Lord
Amen, amen, LOLWUT? GET OUT OF THE WAY OF HIS FIREBALLS? Force him to get out of the way of our needles instead, we can camp him, he can't camp us.
I suggest these, and for specific reasons.
1. Lylat - can mess with Mario's recovery, we have platforms for Usmash and comboing. Also slants might mess with his fireballs... not sure on that though. Confirmation anyone?
2. Final D - Kind of gimps his recovery sometimes, and we can out-camp him with needles. Although he has a cape, we can still mess with him, and we shouldnt ever get hit at the appropriate distance away b/c the needles will vanish before getting to us.
3. Battlefield: Always a solid stage for Sheik...
4. Japes... : An out-of-nowhere choice but seriously can mario do anything to get back on the stage after getting in the water? horrible recovery... Discuss please.
Voyeur
Smash Journeyman
I've been playing against lvl 9 CPU Mario for a while and it usually ends up to me having to gimp for kills.
FD puts him and I on a pretty even level, but Lylat and Battlefield were upperhands for sure.
I haven't fought on Japes yet; but I can check that out later. Since Mario is similar to Luigi in range aspects, camping them is a huge asset which FD did offer. The only times it hurt me is when I got caught by his F.L.U.D.D while charging needles and instead of canceling properly out of them I f'ed up few times to get gimped, along with that cape reversing me right before Vanish in air for recovery -_-
FD puts him and I on a pretty even level, but Lylat and Battlefield were upperhands for sure.
I haven't fought on Japes yet; but I can check that out later. Since Mario is similar to Luigi in range aspects, camping them is a huge asset which FD did offer. The only times it hurt me is when I got caught by his F.L.U.D.D while charging needles and instead of canceling properly out of them I f'ed up few times to get gimped, along with that cape reversing me right before Vanish in air for recovery -_-
Flamingo
Smash Lord
Bump
Reasons:
1. Werekill seems to forget about this thread which I think should be stickied.
2. This is actually a useful thread.
3. THE SHEIK BOARDS ARE DEAD..
Reasons:
1. Werekill seems to forget about this thread which I think should be stickied.
2. This is actually a useful thread.
3. THE SHEIK BOARDS ARE DEAD..
Voyeur
Smash Journeyman
I agree, I think this thread is only one of the few actual ones around that involve discussion of something, except for Villi's other stage level that also should be bumped and chatted in.
So I think Mario is pretty summed up, and since some one brought this up in another post I say...
...We toss Falco, Fox and Wolf into one pot for the next discuss and skip the list's order.
Mario CP: Lylat, FD and I feel depending on Japes water current isn't to great but also then perhaps Orpheon
So I think Mario is pretty summed up, and since some one brought this up in another post I say...
...We toss Falco, Fox and Wolf into one pot for the next discuss and skip the list's order.
Mario CP: Lylat, FD and I feel depending on Japes water current isn't to great but also then perhaps Orpheon
Flamingo
Smash Lord
I agree. The characters that we don't destroy and we actually NEED TO CP TO WIN against need to come first. That is all.
Voyeur
Smash Journeyman
I'm not against Olimar though being the next one, he's always a real pain in the *** with his wanna be chain recovery, or Game & Watch CP would be nice too bring up as well.
Flamingo
Smash Lord
Frigate Orpheon, Rainbow Cruise for Olimar. They would rather change characters after the CP. I gurantee it. xD My best friend and roommate is probably the best Olimar in NC. Trust me on this one. PS Olimar ***** Sheik. Horrible matchup. Use chain. Game and watch is a bit tougher.
I like all this advance discussing, should we formally, and temporarily usurp this thread's power and change the discussion to Olimar in Werekill's best interest?
Canvasofgrey
Smash Ace
Essientially, Any stage that doesn't have ledges are good for Olimar. Generally of course.