Short Hopping vs. Full Hopping and Do we use our Jumps correctly?

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I think this is one of the last few areas we really do not think about. When is it appropriate to short or full hop?

Doing a full hop in situations like to avoid lasers is quite obvious.

However, something like full hopping when Snake is very close just seems silly to me. First off he can easily just fire a mortar or nade at you and at this point its obvious we will probably DAir and our fastfall is too slow to easily get the landing FP grab on him. SO its obvious that he will either bait or just get out of there while he has the frame advantage in those situations...

We also need to be extra careful when using our double jump against characters like Olimar. With his insane range our landings can be really easy to punish.

When I fight a fellow Lucario I ask myself... "When does he use his second jump?" Then I can go for the rushdown and force stuff... Honestly, I'm surprised more people just don't go into rushdown mode when we do use our second jump...

Anyways, I am tired as I just worked 6 days with 8+ hour shifts in a row. Sorry, if I'm not being entirely coherent. So yeah discuss.

 

[phi1ny3]

Learning benefits of full hop v. SH is actually really useful for Lucario imo, and it is for a lot of characters too. For example, FH fair for lucario is very safe in certain MUs (it's coming down that's a different story).

Trela's been experimenting with full hop backwards from what I've seen, it's a really interesting position/mixup to the game because guessing whether bair, dair, or AS reverses is tricky to correctly punish each, and it so far looks legit.

Learning when you shouldn't second jump is also good, because there's a lot of stupid stuff that can happen to you that can make you eat a lot of damage, especially if they read the double jump and get you offstage somehow. Conversely, if your opponent has used their second jump (minus people like MK or Kirby obv.), your AS/ landing traps become way stronger, so it's important to look out for those.

 

[culexus・wau]

snake could pretty much just uptilt us out of jumpsquat if we attempt to jump near him lol.

I've been thinking of stuff lately but I barely get any time to test due to lack of controller :>

Someone see if these are possible?

Full Hop -> Aura Sphere Wavebounce -> Air Dodge -> Buffered FP Grab.
Full Hop -> Aura Sphere Wavebounce -> Air Airdodge -> Nair/Dair

stopping a full hop short with dair to avoid full hop falco laser and put him in a bad position.


oh yeah, and speaking of the second jump, Do we really have any sort of incentive for immediate double jumps off the ground?

it goes higher then SH and lower then full hop [I think it rises faster as well, maybe]