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Should I ever roll?
- Thread starter JacobARF
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2008
- Messages
- 7,187
It's an easily exploitable habit, but it does have some limited uses. At tournament entry level, try not rolling at all to eliminate the habit from you. Once you're good at avoiding attacks by spacing better, then you can start learning the uses of rolling
Smoove-
Smash Rookie
Rolling is great sometimes, you just need to know when to do it. Study your opponents pressure. Does he look like he's trying to look for a roll by just dash dancing right in front of your face? Hit him with an aerial out of shield, don't roll otherwise you will get punished. Is he just trying to Nair shine you (if hes a spacie) mindlessly? A roll would be okay here. since if you roll when he is doing the nair, he'd have to fast fall, l cancel and then dash forward or backward depending on where you rolled and by then you can put out a move to stop his initial dash, like a tilt or a quick short hop aerial. Same thing goes for when you roll and he is in the shine. The only option your opponent has here is to wavedash out of the shine and if you didn't know, wavedashing has some frames of lag at the end, so you will be freed of the pressure by then. This is assuming your opponent is fox/falco because other characters just dont have this kind of pressure.
Peach has double jab to d smash, aerial to d smash, or aerial to jab which can be shielded or hit with an aerial oos respectively. You can also wavedash out of shield after double jabs. or after down smash. Remember though that peach can to jab grab or aerial to grab, which, then it would be safe to roll, just you have to have the right read. it becomes a 50/50 when she hits your shield.
As you play different characters you will start to see the kinds of shield pressure they have. Wavedash oos is really good, Mango does it a lot. The reason is because shield pressure isn't always "constant", for lack of better term. If a Sheik jabs your shield you can either wait for the second jab to come out, then wd oos or if she single jabs, then you can wait for a tilt or an aerial and then smoothly wd out. Shield grabbing is for when your opponents moves are spaced badly.
Alternatively, you can up smash out of shield depending on your character if you see that the punish from the up smash will be better than the punish for the grab. For example if you are fox playing a puff and the puff is at 110%, and just dives at you with a badly spaced fair, you don't want to shield grab because the percent is too high for up throw to up air, you want to up smash oos to ensure the kill.
From what I have experienced, Marth doesn't have the best shield pressure. His biggest asset is that ridiculous grab. When I play a Marth in tournament and I am in my shield, and the Marth is threatening me with a DD, this is usually what I find: either the Marth is expecting a roll, so I stuff his dash with a nair oos, OR, he is expecting an aerial oos and will DD forward then back then forward again (or dash forward, wasvedash back, dash forward) to punish it. This leads to another oos option which is just simply jumping out of shield, which i actually see players do vs marth. Then again, you could get hit with an incoming forward air if the player reads that option. It really becomes a huge mix up because then wave dash out of shield to dash dance becomes a good option.
I tried to give an example with a lot of the characters that are used in today's meta. However, you may encounter a luigi player. The way they like to pressure is a double aerial on shield because of how floaty they are. Many people get flustered by this but after the first aerial, wd oos is a good option. Sorry if this was so long, but I had a lot to say
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Remember to mix it up between rolling, wavedash, up smash, aerial, jump, or shine out of shield. I find you should roll when you know that your opponent thinks they will get a punish on you. For ex. You miss space an aerial and now you are about to get dash dance grabbed. you can buffer a roll to reset the neutral game. Just be wary of when you use it, because the next time you space a move badly, your opponent will keep running to you, but run past you this time, reading your roll back and now you're in trouble. Don't be like my friends who roll just to get around the map xD. Remember your other out of shield options and know how to apply them. If you still can't help rolling, try punishing yourself (WITH SOMETHING HEALTHY OF COURSE) like push ups or sit ups every time you do a "bad" roll or if you roll when another oos option was the better choice. Hope this helps and if any of this info is incorrect or misleading, or if anyone can provide better tips, please, by all means do so.
Peach has double jab to d smash, aerial to d smash, or aerial to jab which can be shielded or hit with an aerial oos respectively. You can also wavedash out of shield after double jabs. or after down smash. Remember though that peach can to jab grab or aerial to grab, which, then it would be safe to roll, just you have to have the right read. it becomes a 50/50 when she hits your shield.
As you play different characters you will start to see the kinds of shield pressure they have. Wavedash oos is really good, Mango does it a lot. The reason is because shield pressure isn't always "constant", for lack of better term. If a Sheik jabs your shield you can either wait for the second jab to come out, then wd oos or if she single jabs, then you can wait for a tilt or an aerial and then smoothly wd out. Shield grabbing is for when your opponents moves are spaced badly.
Alternatively, you can up smash out of shield depending on your character if you see that the punish from the up smash will be better than the punish for the grab. For example if you are fox playing a puff and the puff is at 110%, and just dives at you with a badly spaced fair, you don't want to shield grab because the percent is too high for up throw to up air, you want to up smash oos to ensure the kill.
From what I have experienced, Marth doesn't have the best shield pressure. His biggest asset is that ridiculous grab. When I play a Marth in tournament and I am in my shield, and the Marth is threatening me with a DD, this is usually what I find: either the Marth is expecting a roll, so I stuff his dash with a nair oos, OR, he is expecting an aerial oos and will DD forward then back then forward again (or dash forward, wasvedash back, dash forward) to punish it. This leads to another oos option which is just simply jumping out of shield, which i actually see players do vs marth. Then again, you could get hit with an incoming forward air if the player reads that option. It really becomes a huge mix up because then wave dash out of shield to dash dance becomes a good option.
I tried to give an example with a lot of the characters that are used in today's meta. However, you may encounter a luigi player. The way they like to pressure is a double aerial on shield because of how floaty they are. Many people get flustered by this but after the first aerial, wd oos is a good option. Sorry if this was so long, but I had a lot to say
. Remember to mix it up between rolling, wavedash, up smash, aerial, jump, or shine out of shield. I find you should roll when you know that your opponent thinks they will get a punish on you. For ex. You miss space an aerial and now you are about to get dash dance grabbed. you can buffer a roll to reset the neutral game. Just be wary of when you use it, because the next time you space a move badly, your opponent will keep running to you, but run past you this time, reading your roll back and now you're in trouble. Don't be like my friends who roll just to get around the map xD. Remember your other out of shield options and know how to apply them. If you still can't help rolling, try punishing yourself (WITH SOMETHING HEALTHY OF COURSE) like push ups or sit ups every time you do a "bad" roll or if you roll when another oos option was the better choice. Hope this helps and if any of this info is incorrect or misleading, or if anyone can provide better tips, please, by all means do so.
Last edited:
StevenStone
Smash Rookie
I wouldn't say you should NEVER roll, but more-so know when to roll. Your primary form of spacing and movement should be wavedashing.
AirFair
Marth tho
Yeah, rolling is good under shield pressure situations, but don't make it a habit.
Ex. Falco shield pressure, you should try and roll out.
Btw, @
StevenStone
you are from Houston? do you go to any tournaments?
Ex. Falco shield pressure, you should try and roll out.
Btw, @
StevenStone
you are from Houston? do you go to any tournaments?
StevenStone
Smash Rookie
Yes I am from Houston. I've gone to a couple either at GameGuys or at the Smash Dojo.Yeah, rolling is good under shield pressure situations, but don't make it a habit.
Ex. Falco shield pressure, you should try and roll out.
Btw, @
AirFair
Marth tho
Really? I go to the Smash Dojo a couple times a month. We should coordinate.
Btw, sometimes when I try to grab, I do a light shield instead, is there a way to always get a grab? And whilst I'm at it, sometimes it takes a second before I can use the c-stick for smashes, even though I shouldn't be in any kind of ending lag, anyone knows why?
Lorenzo The Comic
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2010
- Messages
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- NNID
- OutboundKid
StevenStone
Smash Rookie
I've only been for tourneys but let me know next time your going to hang out and I'll see if I can be there.
AJawesome07
Smash Apprentice
I don't remember what commentator said it, but someone said: "rolling isn't bad, predictable rolls are bad"