ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Who knows maybe I am!
Not really, I just wanted to be a pain in the *** for that one.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Should Metaknight be Banned? **Take 2** (Post-podcast)
- Thread starter SamuraiPanda
- Start date
- Status
ShadowLink and RDK addressed your other points satisfactorily, but about this one...
You directly quoted me and then started repeatedly using the word "you." How was I supposed to interpret that as "you" (plural) and not "you" (singular) when the paragraph came directly after a quotebox of my post?
Is this sarcasm? Because I honestly can't tell what point you're trying to get across.
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
You pwned yourself here, so I won't bother.
You don't know what you're talking about. the mere presence of a move that kills isn't what makes a character ban-worthy, or even good.
Um, no. re-read what I actually posted.
again, re-read what I'm actually posting. you're responding to something other than what I'm saying.
Link doesn't deal with aerial zoning jesus. toon link is decent at it, but game & watch beats toon link and he ***** link.
snakes win more tournaments than MK's. the entire concept of "MK wins every tournament" is ******** to begin with, and thats the only point I was trying to make.
do you even play this game?
snake for example has no move he HAS to use to win. A snake can beat you using only aerials and grenades if he wanted to. f-tilt and uptilt get it done faster, but its not REQUIRED like d-smash and glid attack is required for MK.
zelda can beat you without using upsmash if she wanted. game and watch definitely has no moves he simply HAS to use. Neither does Kirby. or Marth. You can win with all of those characters using all kinds of different styles. You can not win against good players with MK without glide attacking out of up b, and using d-smash. not possible.
a moves "fastness" is only useful when your opponent makes a mistake. most of the time the f-tilt will be blocked and MK will be punished. Unless you get mindgames or you make a mistake. I dont know where this whole, MK can run and randomly tilt you business comes from but its false.
as i said, tornado is little more than a nuisance. it doesnt win matches for MK.
I didn't say you plural. I said you universal.
the first sentence of that post was something to the effect of,
"if you constantly get hit by d-smash, you aren't good at this game"
note the word "you" in that sentence. am I really talking about YOU specifically? you seriously think so? i'm going to have take this back to elementary school language arts and use the word "one". I'll rephrase for the slowfolks.
"One shouldn't ban MK because one sucks at this game"
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
snake already dominates tournaments, snake is a good matchup against 90 pecent of the characters in the game. and that post was only a response to someone who said MK wins every tournament,w hich is wrong
theres a difference between "as good" (what you made up) and " playable/able to win with" (what I said).
to the person who quoted you, obv. snake wouldn't be as good without those moves, but can you win against good players without them, absolutely positively. not so for metaknight, because he's a one-dimensional character, his one dimension just happens to be badass, but not such that he needs to banned. not even close.
I agree that the assertion "MK wins every tournament" is clearly wrong, but saying Snake will suddenly dominate all tournaments if you take one character out that hinges with Snake's potential matchups in such a way is unfounded.
Plus, if this is true, getting rid of MK only hurts Snake, which means he just has one less advantageous matchup than before.
There's really no way of knowing what would happen if you take MK out. Other character development has to be factored in.
Take the Diddy naner combo that was recently discovered. That seems like it may incredibly effect Diddy's matchup with MK.
I still don't see the point of stating this. What does this have to do with the MK ban?
You think Snake can win against good players without his ftilt, utilt, and c4?
...
Tournament wins for September-November:
Meta Knight - 54
Snake - 29
King Dedede - 17
Falco - 13
Lucario - 12
Yep. Snakes sure do win more tournaments. A whole -15 more than Meta Knights, in fact.
Excuse me, WHAT? First of all, I'd love to see Snake being able to flaunt dominance in an AERIAL game when the entire aim of MANY characters against Snake in the matchup is to send him in the air to LIMIT HIS OPTIONS. I don't know if you're using hyperbole or something here, but Snake's aerial game isn't nearly as good as his ground game.
Second of all, Meta Knight's dsmash is great because it hits fast and has low cooldown, yes. But you keep talking about glide attack being ridiculously predictable and punishable, yet a necessary attack for Meta Knight. Contradiction? Why would anyone be REQUIRED to use an attack that's so heavily predictable AND punishable? No single character requires that you play like Drephen, Meta Knight included, and if you see Meta Knights doing nothing but glide attack and dsmash, chances are they wouldn't place well in tournaments anyway so they're not exactly great examples of the character being played well.
What business did that paragraph have responding directly to my quote? Are you saying you just decided to quote my post for the hell of it and then go on some random tirade against everyone NOT quoted by you? If so, good job, you sure fooled me man. Next you should directly quote something from da KID and under it respond in a paragraph to all the Dedede mains out there. 'Cause it'll make all the sense in the world.
BrawlLover
Smash Champion
wow that was a tight match!
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
I'm just gonna kinda jump in here with a question:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Meta Knight essentially break the counter-pick aspect of the game? Knowing your matchups and efficiently counter-picking is an important aspect of competitive Smash, and doesn't MK kinda negate all of that? Because it seems to me like there is no reason for someone to NOT use MK. Why use anyone else when MK can and will get the job done just as well, or better?
I just want someone's opinion on that.
[EDIT] lol@1337voters
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Meta Knight essentially break the counter-pick aspect of the game? Knowing your matchups and efficiently counter-picking is an important aspect of competitive Smash, and doesn't MK kinda negate all of that? Because it seems to me like there is no reason for someone to NOT use MK. Why use anyone else when MK can and will get the job done just as well, or better?
I just want someone's opinion on that.
[EDIT] lol@1337voters
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
The main argument right now is about whether MK has any disadvantageous matchups or not. Many people are saying Snake beats MK. Some are arguing that Diddy beats him.
You're right though. If he had no bad matchups, he would break the counterpick system and thus should get banned.
BrawlLover
Smash Champion
disadvantageous to a degree where it matters? i don't think so bra
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
Well he certainly comes close to breaking it
The Real Inferno
Smash Hero
Currently, Meta Knight at worst has one or two 40/60 opponent's advantage matchups for what that's worth. Of course, if we throw out all personal bias flying around this can swing as far as 60/40 for Meta Knight depending on what you like to believe. Take that as you like it.
BrawlLover
Smash Champion
mmm im done with this, it's not gonna change, mk will be allowed till the end of days
Boxob
Smash Champion
You guys seem to forget that Sonic is still the fastest in the game. He can completely wreck MetaKnight with his sheer speed.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
Why aren't you in the SBR?You guys seem to forget that Sonic is still the fastest in the game. He can completely wreck MetaKnight with his sheer speed.
Boxob
Smash Champion
It's too late, he's banned.
EDIT:
Diddy beats MK on more than FD, or at least, that's what we're trying to figure out.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201953
Though to be perfectly honest, FD provides no more of an advantage than any other stage in this matchup.
[/ontopic]
He's too good for the Smash Back Room.
Now, if you mean THE SBR, then yea, he's in it.
viparagon
Smash Ace
"Enough with the arguments about banning Metaknight and let me tell you something.
When I play 'Super Smash Bros Brawl', I went to training mode, I play as Ike, and I faced off against Metaknight as an Lv.9 AI to test Metaknight's moves in training mode. What I discovered Metaknight's technique, is that when I play as Ike, I got out, then I respawn and knock Metaknight out, then Metaknight respawn and I got out again, then I respawn and knock Metaknight out again, until I got great advantage to knock Metaknight out twice within being stayed alive.
So the conclusion is, Metaknight should not be banned, because I test him while I play as Ike and I have no problems with Metaknight.
Remember that Metaknight gets knocked out by any of the characters(like Ike), because if you read 'Super Smash Bros Brawl Guide: Premiere Edition' by 'PrimaGames', they will tell you about 'Fight against Metaknight' in the 'Character Guide' Section."
just putting it out there...
When I play 'Super Smash Bros Brawl', I went to training mode, I play as Ike, and I faced off against Metaknight as an Lv.9 AI to test Metaknight's moves in training mode. What I discovered Metaknight's technique, is that when I play as Ike, I got out, then I respawn and knock Metaknight out, then Metaknight respawn and I got out again, then I respawn and knock Metaknight out again, until I got great advantage to knock Metaknight out twice within being stayed alive.
So the conclusion is, Metaknight should not be banned, because I test him while I play as Ike and I have no problems with Metaknight.
Remember that Metaknight gets knocked out by any of the characters(like Ike), because if you read 'Super Smash Bros Brawl Guide: Premiere Edition' by 'PrimaGames', they will tell you about 'Fight against Metaknight' in the 'Character Guide' Section."
just putting it out there...
viparagon
Smash Ace
maxfirexsa or something like thatXD
that was his reasoning for ehy MK whould be banned. you can find it in the user blogs on the first or second page. he actually defended it too...
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I'm convinced as well.
viparagon
Smash Ace
yeah, all arguments are void because I got great advantage to knock metaknight out twice while being stayed alive!
kirbstir
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2004
- Messages
- 1,743
Why is having no counter (and thus, "breaking the counterpick system") a bannable offense?
Frogsterking
Smash Journeyman
Because the best option to beat MK would be to use MK himself, and then if you bother to learn MK there is no reason to use anyone else because MK does better than your other main anyway. If MK could be countered, people could learn the counter and use that against MK, and their main against everyone else.
kirbstir
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2004
- Messages
- 1,743
That makes the assumption that only a MK can beat another MK, which has been proven wrong time and time again.
And so what if it's the "best option" anyways?
Frogsterking
Smash Journeyman
Because the best option to beat MK would be another MK. I was hypothetically answering the question "Why would no counters warrant a ban?"
viparagon
Smash Ace
yeah, as EL explained, your not beating MK, your beating the person, its a design flaw
Arguably, if there are neutral matchups, then the better player should win the majority of the time.
I'd be fine with that.
That's actually how alot of Sonic matchups are lol.
---------------------
Now, the question is, are the people who main characters that should go even with Metaknight on-par with the MK players, skillwise? Are they familiar with the matchups and punish Metaknight when possible? Do their defensive moves, DI, and mixups match the speed that the MK players throw out and mix up their offensive moves?
:l
I'd be fine with that.
That's actually how alot of Sonic matchups are lol.
---------------------
Now, the question is, are the people who main characters that should go even with Metaknight on-par with the MK players, skillwise? Are they familiar with the matchups and punish Metaknight when possible? Do their defensive moves, DI, and mixups match the speed that the MK players throw out and mix up their offensive moves?
:l
ENOUGH SAID.
*locks thread*
edit: "It's your choice if Meta Knight will be banned, but if you don't know how to beat Meta Knight, then have you done a 'Dodge' or 'Aerial Dodge' in the game?"
viparagon
Smash Ace
lulz 2 gud
more wise words from maxfire:
"Zerofox, I agree with you, Metaknight's tornado slash are not that perfect.
So anyway, let me tell you this.
I play as Metaknight against the Lv.9 CPU for the test to see if is impossible to avoid Metaknight's repetitious tornado slash. While I kept spamming the B button to do the tornado slash to do a heavy damage among the players, is gonna be a 75% - 40% chance to avoid the spamming Metaknight's tornado slash, because to counter is if you play as Ganondorf, you could press the down arrow and the A button to counter Metaknight's tornado slash."
i especially like the 75-40% chance of avoiding it! ^_^
- Status