Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***

[Zankoku]

Right, because I count a 13-man $5 tournament exactly as much as I count a 200-man $15 tournament right? Wrong! (for the record, the 200-man $15 tournament counts for 46 times as many points as the 13-man $5 tournament) (also for the record, if I got rid of all those small tournaments, Meta Knight would be even higher. Guess who wins most of the big tournaments? I'll give you a hint: he lives in New Jersey and has the number 2 in his name.)

I'm not even arguing that Meta Knight is broken, but anyone who thinks there's going to be a dramatic change to the Brawl metagame in just two month better not hold his breath.

 

[|RK|]

You're right. You should all pick up MK, that'd show us.

Ew, who wants to pick up MK?

 

[Nic64]

Exactly, I said the same thing and I'm against banning him(wtf I finally got off the fence?), it's just obvious that there will not be some huge shift in the next few weeks, MK isn't really getting better or worse now, it just is what it is.

 

[BOB SAGET]

well we havent seen a major tournamnets in a while so we'll see. i dont think theres gonna be a dramatic change but it still would help prove if MK should be banned or not.

 

[Zankoku]

well we havent seen a major tournamnets in a while so we'll see. i dont think theres gonna be a dramatic change but it still would help prove if MK should be banned or not.

World HOBO. Three weeks ago.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229419

Because a 140-man event is obviously not a major tournament. Obviously.

I realize it's not wholly representative of the metagame, but discounting a tournament's size on arbitrary criteria is just wrong.

 

[Nic64]

I don't see how you can say "if he wins _____ amount at APEX/Genesis he should be banned but if he falls short of that he shouldn't", if the character is too good he is too good, if he's not then he isn't, if MK gets like 2/3 or 3/3 of the top 3 that shouldn't be a huge surprise with people like M2K and Dojo in attendance.

 

[|RK|]

Hey, there's always a chance Ankoku... I wish I could go to Genesis. Alas...

Try two more months. Just two. An AT called Wavedashing saved the Melee community...

Evidence has recently come up, and many people believe MK vs Wario is 50:50 ...

People are still discovering character specific techniques...

A lot can happen in two months... just wait.​

​

 

[Nic64]

Evidence has recently come up, and many people believe MK vs Wario is 50:50 ...

it's not quite, but I don't see why it needs to be, even like 6:4 or even a bit worse is usually going to go to the better player regardless.

 

[Zankoku]

Wavedashing was discovered near the beginning of Melee. >_>
SephirothKen, one of the earliest world champions of Melee, rarely ever wavedashed.

A lot can happen, but I'm still betting on Mew2King taking first. And Meta Knight being the best character in the game.

I don't care about by how much, because that's for the random idiots going "he should be banned!" or "he shouldn't be banned!" to decide.

 

[Kage Me]

1: Inui and M2K=meta+meta
2: Stepping it Up for West Coast (Tyrant + DSF) =meta+meta

The grand finals must have been boring to watch...

 

[|RK|]

Even if M2K does come first...

No one said it would be easy...

Nor did they say there'd be any other MKs below him...​

​

 

[thrillagorilla]

I'm just going to start reposting this until someone responds...

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7269717&postcount=3405

@RKJoker: If you don't want me to respond to your post, I won't. NP. I would like to know, though.

 

[bludhoundz]

The grand finals must have been boring to watch...

DSF went Snake for some of it too.

 

[Zankoku]

Even if M2K does come first...

No one said it would be easy...

Nor did they say there'd be any other MKs below him...​

​

 

[BOB SAGET]

i forgot about HOBO. it wasnt that recent but it wasnt that far back either. u see the list and all u see is meta. but a lot can hapen in 2 months. look at melee.

 

[|RK|]

I'm just going to start reposing this until someone responds...

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7269717&postcount=3405

@RKJoker: If you don't want me to respond to your post, I won't. I would like to know, though.

Only if you want to. Oh, and I suppose it's a good essay, thrilla. However, it's still based on Eyada's flaws as I see them. At the very least, it did follow The Eyada Theory.

Oh, and just call me RK.​

​

 

[CR4SH]

As for wario, honestly, make a big deal out of it and then wait maybe a month for MK mains to figure the matchup out a bit better. Because I guarantee you that wario mains as a whole understand the MK matchup a hell of a lot better than MK mains understand the wario matchup.

In my experience most MK mains don't really understand most of their matchups, at least not nearly as well as other characters understand them. And this leads mains of those characters to believe that the matchup is better than it actually is. Case in point, luigi boards think that the mk matchup is only 65:35 and point to videos where mks (high level mks even) STAND ON the stage and let luigi recover. MK in some ways is too good for his own good, he could definetly **** much harder. But he just doesn't have to, he wins anyway.


Also, what in the world is ankoku doing arguing with bob saget, lol.

 

[Nic64]

Also, what in the world is ankoku doing arguing with bob saget, lol.

sometimes you're just that bored? that's why I've been giving him serious responses today...

 

[|RK|]

That...

Is debatable.​

​

 

[BOB SAGET]

its natural ankoku and i would argrue. he's the admin who hates me the most. lol

 

[Falconv1.0]

Ew, who wants to pick up MK?

I hear that weird dude OS did it.

 

[|RK|]

I hear that weird dude OS did it.

MK just doesn't fit my playstyle. I actually got killed once by an 8-9 year old girl using him. Lucario, on the other hand...
​

​

 

[BOB SAGET]

nic please stop flaming and stop embarassing yourself as well. anyway, MK probably wont be dethroned but u never know.

 

[Owndizzl3r_Ownag3]

*thinks of MK dominating Genesis* My anus is bleeding!!!, for the love of god and all that is holy!! my anus is bleeedddiinngg!!!!!

 

[thrillagorilla]

Seems like no one but Eyada noticed this, so...



I'll bite. How does more options = more competitive. If competition is a display of skill, then doesn't that mean it actually takes less options to show true skill? By this reasoning, we could jump into skillsets as well. The higher tiers, especially Meta-Knight, have the most options. The lower tiers have less. This means that true skill is shown through higher tiers, as more options = more skill, correct? This also means that only higher tiers are competitively viable, since lower tiers have very little options. So by this logic, higher tiers = competitive, and by the same token, lower tiers = not competitive. That means that only bans that remove characters with little diversity are justified. If what you said of characters is not true of skillsets as well, what we have here is that your argument is a fallacy in and of itself.

You are thinking in terms of winning rather than competing. If there are less options, there are less opportunities to show skill. If there are less opportunities to show skill, then there are less opportunities to compete. This means that fewer options = less skill, not more.

Think of it in terms of Bowser fighting King DeDeDe. Infinite grabs are allowed. If the DeDeDe grabs the Bowser once, the stock is over. If the stock is over, the Bowser no longer has any opportunity to show any skill. Because of this option, the DeDeDe holds the advantage of stopping the competition at any point that he grabs. This means that a great amount of Bowsers options are limited, because one miss-step = end of competition. Therefore, even if DeDeDe doesn't use that option, the threat of it still limits Bowser's options, thereby disallowing for the opportunity to show skill except through criteria that would require the character with more options, the DeDeDe, to show less skill for not using the obvious best choice given the situation.

To avoid situations like this from happening two games in a row, the Counter-pick system was devised. If you want to know my thoughts on that, read my post!

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7269717&postcount=3405

 

[Kage Me]

MK just doesn't fit my playstyle. I actually got killed once by an 8-9 year old girl using him. Lucario, on the other hand...
​

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That's what you get for underestimating 9-year-old girls, eh?

I once got MK assigned to me by the Random button as well. Didn't work. Didn't work at all.

 

[Lord Viper]

MK just doesn't fit my playstyle. I actually got killed once by an 8-9 year old girl using him. Lucario, on the other hand...
​

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☆ I'm going to take a guess that you just SD yourself when using Up-B to kill someone, that has to be it. XD ☆

☆ Your not the only one who fail's at using Meta Knight, me, the lover of all things Kirby can use Kirby and King Dedede at the highest level, but can't win when choosing Meta Knight. ☆

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I'm restating this is for those who still think of not banning MK because you can just be him to counter him.

If people just say the only way to beat a MK is to be one then your just increasing the problem.
But if we just ban him then those MK's who started it will be pissed off but we as the rest of smash community will be better off. and we could actually enjoy SSBB instead of just reverting back to the not as unbalanced Melee

 

[aeghrur]

nic please stop flaming and stop embarassing yourself as well. anyway, MK probably wont be dethroned but u never know.

Evolution probably won't be disproved in 2 years, but you never know...
Gravity probably won't be disproved in 2 years, but you never know...
1+1 might not equal 3, but you never know...

 

[|RK|]

You are thinking in terms of winning rather than competing. If there are less options, there are less opportunities to show skill. If there are less opportunities to show skill, then there are less opportunities to compete. This means that fewer options = less skill, not more.

Think of it in terms of Bowser fighting King DeDeDe. Infinite grabs are allowed. If the DeDeDe grabs the Bowser once, the stock is over. If the stock is over, the Bowser no longer has any opportunity to show any skill. Because of this option, the DeDeDe holds the advantage of stopping the competition at any point that he grabs. This means that a great amount of Bowsers options are limited, because one miss-step = end of competition. Therefore, even if DeDeDe doesn't use that option, the threat of it still limits Bowser's options, thereby disallowing for the opportunity to show skill except through criteria that would require the character with more options, the DeDeDe, to show less skill for not using the obvious best choice given the situation.

To avoid situations like this from happening two games in a row, the Counter-pick system was devised. If you want to know my thoughts on that, read my post!

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7269717&postcount=3405

Excuse me? Reread my post and you'll see that I'm merely repeating Eyada's logic with skillsets. His argument must be universal, else it is nulled.

 

[_Icy_]

Metaknight should not be banned. Hes not broken and you all just seem to suck and want to make it easier on yourselves -_-

lol? Meta Knight is definitely broken ._.
The only reason I voted NO is because he may be broken but he's not unbeatable, If Metaknight is banned then what will the argument be be to not ban characters that actually do have unabeatable match up problems(Fox vs. Pikachu) or what if they just ban the IC's? Banning Metaknight would just cause a lot more unnecessary bans >_>

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ That post is pass a week old Icy, plus Fiction is for the Ban now, so I hear. ☆

 

[Overswarm]

Evolution probably won't be disproved in 2 years, but you never know...

Recent discoveries have actually showed we certainly have our theory of evolution wrong and it needs to be updated.

Gravity probably won't be disproved in 2 years, but you never know...

Our theory of gravity actually HAS been proven wrong before, a couple of times. We've updated it a lot.

1+1 might not equal 3, but you never know...

It does, for extremely large values of 1.



Also, MK should be banned.

The only reason I voted NO is because he may be broken but he's not unbeatable, If Metaknight is banned then what will the argument be be to not ban characters that actually do have unabeatable match up problems(Fox vs. Pikachu) or what if they just ban the IC's? Banning Metaknight would just cause a lot more unnecessary bans >_>

1. MK not being beatable was never an argument >_>

2. You're paranoid.

 

[BOB SAGET]

MK=ARCEUS UBER!! MK wont be banned because the sbr dont have the to do so.

 

[CRASHiC]

Our theory of gravity actually HAS been proven wrong before, a couple of times. We've updated it a lot.

lol string theory.
Gravity comes FROM ANOTHER UNIVERSE

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

lol? Meta Knight is definitely broken ._.
The only reason I voted NO is because he may be broken but he's not unbeatable, If Metaknight is banned then what will the argument be be to not ban characters that actually do have unabeatable match up problems(Fox vs. Pikachu) or what if they just ban the IC's? Banning Metaknight would just cause a lot more unnecessary bans >_>

No because why ban those charecters? they have CP's that can actually beat them.

baning MK would be hard on the MK pros, not everyone else. They might revolt and try to ban other charecters, I could probably see that but not the whole smash community going ban crazy

 

[Overswarm]

lol string theory.
Gravity comes FROM ANOTHER UNIVERSE

also, nothing is being pulled. Space and time are actually being DISTORTED BY THE EXISTENCE OF MATTER

 

[|RK|]

Oh, geez. I disproved the fact that MK is broken TWICE already. Drop it, please.

 

[bobson]

Oh, geez. I disproved the fact that MK is broken TWICE already. Drop it, please.

Well, that's it guys. The final authority has spoken.

Might as well close the thread.

 

[BOB SAGET]

lets close the thread. the same thing has been said over and over again.