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Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***
- Thread starter SamuraiPanda
- Start date
- Status
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
I hardly think that was m2k performing his best when he is falling down on mines, ending his tornado in the air (and getting Utilted as a result).
Let alone considering that we cannot simply weigh on only one match simply because in that match, we have to realize both players are human. The mental strain, physical strain they underwent, etc etc.
So it cant just be , m2k lost to ally dont ban mk.
not to say I do not agree with your argument, just not the reasoning.
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
Why are you people still on this subject? Don't ban MK. Ban Ally, he's broken.
Tarmogoyf
Smash Master
Come back when you start getting banned at tournaments!
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
Yea, that line was pretty classy, though that thing wasn't as good as the two prequels. Haha.
Affinity
Smash Hero
Lain (ICs) beat M2K and Dojo, and Candy (Snake) eliminated Dojo.
Nic64
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,725
True, but at least it's detrimental to some of the sillier arguments in here like "well m2k never loses, once a meta knight learns the matchup you can't really do anything", which was just stupid since this can't be said of any other meta knight. m2k is only an issue because ban supporters made him an issue, now they just want him to be irrelevant?(for now)
Master Raven
Smash Master
Lain and ADHD also beat Seibrik, who used MK for most of the tourney, and ADHD 2-0'd Dojo in a MM in Diddy vs MK.
Yeah, so Apex pretty much trashed 90% of the pro ban argument.
The best Metaknight players (plural) in the country got beaten by Ice Climbers and Snake players. Metaknight is clearly not unbeatable.
1: Ally(Snake)
2: Mew2King(MK)
3: Lain(Ics, DDD)
4: Anti(Snake, MK)
5: Atomsk(DDD)
5: Ksizzle(Lucario, MK)
7: ADHD(Diddy Kong)
7: Anther(Pikachu)
9: Seibrik(MK, DDD)
9: Candy(Snake)
9: NinjaLink(Rob, Diddy, Pikachu)
9: Blackwaltz(Olimar)
Out of the top 10, only 4 players used Metaknight which is not a ridiculous number given that he is the best character in the game. Note that 3 of those 4 also used other characters as well.
And before the argument "you can't base your argument off of one tournament" comes up. Let's remember that the pro ban centralized their entire argument around WHOBO when it ended which, if I remember correctly, had fewer numbers of participants and a smaller concentration of the best players in the country. Apex atleast cancels out any argument coming out of WHOBO.
And for those of you arguing that M2K threw the game so that MK wouldn't get banned, you're idiotic. He stated in private that he did not throw the game. Also it would make no sense for him to do so for numerous reasons I don't care to get into at this time.
No, M2K was not playing his best on that set. It probably had something to do with the incredible amount of pressure and the fact that he had gotten knocked into losers by Lain not long ago. Ally deserved his win. He played better. And if for some reason you want to discount that set, look at all the other players Ally took out as well as other player who don't main MK who beat prominant MK mains.
Unless somehow Genesis actually ends with the obscene numbers of MK mains in the top ten like some people originally predicted and which is highly unlikely after the results of Apex, Metaknight will not be banned. The argument is as good as dead.
The best Metaknight players (plural) in the country got beaten by Ice Climbers and Snake players. Metaknight is clearly not unbeatable.
1: Ally(Snake)
2: Mew2King(MK)
3: Lain(Ics, DDD)
4: Anti(Snake, MK)
5: Atomsk(DDD)
5: Ksizzle(Lucario, MK)
7: ADHD(Diddy Kong)
7: Anther(Pikachu)
9: Seibrik(MK, DDD)
9: Candy(Snake)
9: NinjaLink(Rob, Diddy, Pikachu)
9: Blackwaltz(Olimar)
Out of the top 10, only 4 players used Metaknight which is not a ridiculous number given that he is the best character in the game. Note that 3 of those 4 also used other characters as well.
And before the argument "you can't base your argument off of one tournament" comes up. Let's remember that the pro ban centralized their entire argument around WHOBO when it ended which, if I remember correctly, had fewer numbers of participants and a smaller concentration of the best players in the country. Apex atleast cancels out any argument coming out of WHOBO.
And for those of you arguing that M2K threw the game so that MK wouldn't get banned, you're idiotic. He stated in private that he did not throw the game. Also it would make no sense for him to do so for numerous reasons I don't care to get into at this time.
No, M2K was not playing his best on that set. It probably had something to do with the incredible amount of pressure and the fact that he had gotten knocked into losers by Lain not long ago. Ally deserved his win. He played better. And if for some reason you want to discount that set, look at all the other players Ally took out as well as other player who don't main MK who beat prominant MK mains.
Unless somehow Genesis actually ends with the obscene numbers of MK mains in the top ten like some people originally predicted and which is highly unlikely after the results of Apex, Metaknight will not be banned. The argument is as good as dead.
wakka444
Smash Ace
well said tyr well said
Not really, but go ahead and claim what you want. About the only things getting disproven in this thread are from people putting words in the opposing side's mouth then gleefully proving them wrong.
SexTornado
Smash Journeyman
I agree 100%. Mk should not be banned.
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
STOP SPITTING OUT LIES!!!
What you say is untrue and false, blatantly lied, and you're just trying to denounce the Anti-Ban side with postings like this very one I quoted.
IT WAS THE PRO-BAN SIDE THAT BROUGHT UP WHOBO AS PROOF FOR META KNIGHT DOMINATING!
So if we use the SAME ARGUMENT as you do, we're putting words in your mouthes?!?
STOP. LYING.
capemkills
Smash Journeyman
Took the words (somewhat) right out of my mouth lol.
Also note that only 2 of the top 10 MAINED metaknight, the other 2 used mk as a secondary.
He wouldn't throw the game with 1 grand on the line. Get the **** off this BS
It doesn't mean he threw it, but it may mean he wasn't playing nearly at the top of his game.
Quit pretending this one match (Or even overall tournament, really) has some huge significance.
Oh, and before the "But pro-ban said this tourney would be big for MK" -- I never once said that, I never supported that, and I couldn't care less what other people said. That line of reasoning doesn't make sense no matter which side uses it. Figure out who did if you want to tell someone they were wrong, it wasn't me saying it.
L666
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- May 6, 2009
- Messages
- 31
I agree.
Nothing has adequate significance unless it supports the ban.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
What does pro ban have if not 'MK is over used and too good'.
So we should just stop bringing up big tourneys that include lots of top players, which is hard evidence that ***** the pro ban argument. Right.
So we should just stop bringing up big tourneys that include lots of top players, which is hard evidence that ***** the pro ban argument. Right.
The argument has been as good as dead since it started. MK never applied to any of the set ban criteria. The only two valid concepts I feel pro-ban brought up were the fact that MK, like many other characters in fighting games, breaks a system we don't depend on-- the counterpick system and in much more reasonable bounds than the other games.
The second concept was brought up by anti-ban pure awesome I believe, and he raised the question can we ban something which we want to for that reason alone, which I believe we can as we are the one that shaped competitive smash into what it is, we have that right, but to ensure it's a competitive decision, it should be left to the educated players in our community to prevent majority rules to bringing back things like items or banning something because players are tired of seeing it.
In any case though, good stuff Ally, I knew Lain would be somewhere up there if he went, and better luck next time M2K.
GGs.
Nic64
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,725
He said a month or two ago that he was getting worse because he doesn't really practice anymore, idk how true that may be or if it had any impact but I don't think he was sandbagging at all.
It's still significant to me because so many ban proponents used him as an example that once the best meta knight learned a matchup he owned it and would always win, sure, it wasn't a rational argument to begin with, but it's good to have it pretty definitively debunked anyway, the less irrational pointless arguments the better(of course now we have sandbagging conspiracy theories instead lol)
Master Raven
Smash Master
M2K did things that blatantly indicated he was trying to win the set, like attempting to stage spike Ally, or purposely getting himself blown up by Ally's C4 so he could save himself from SDing, or in general his **** gimps. Of course there were some funny moments (he didn't seem to play that well on Halberd compared to his other matches, and I don't know what to make if him getting blown up by C4 like that on Delfino, unless he didn't see it there), but if anything else, Ally is adapting to M2K's playstyle better, and M2K himself did think Ally needed some habits to fix to do better vs him (M2K).
The claims of M2K sandbagging reek of cognitive dissonance.
The claims of M2K sandbagging reek of cognitive dissonance.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
You're right, but for the wrong reasons.
ICs chaingrab can be eliminated by killing Nana, and it can be toned down by separating them. This can be done by you or a simple counterpick to a stage like Rainbow Cruise, Norfair, or whatever else they have.
Jocko
Smash Rookie
Yes, Meta Knight can be beaten, but it doesn't change the fact that it's an overwhelming uphill battle for nearly every character in the game. Meta Knight has the advantage against every character in the game, making Meta Knight the best counter to himself. That's sad, and no fun. Even Sagat in SF4 has EVEN matchups against mid and low tier characters.
The fact is, if Meta Knight was out of the picture, there'd be more variety in character turnouts in tournaments, and it would make the majority of the smash population happier. Sure, the majority of MK players would just move down to Snake, but Snake has even matchups and *gasp* counters.
The fact is, if Meta Knight was out of the picture, there'd be more variety in character turnouts in tournaments, and it would make the majority of the smash population happier. Sure, the majority of MK players would just move down to Snake, but Snake has even matchups and *gasp* counters.
Then maybe people should get off their ***** and work harder. No game can be perfectly balanced.
M2K, the best MK in the world lost to IC a mid tier character.
Dantarion
Smash Champion
I have changed my mind on this topic.
I think the real problem is that MK feels broken because there are SO MANY **** MK's, and many pro MK's compared to other characters.
I think the real problem is that MK feels broken because there are SO MANY **** MK's, and many pro MK's compared to other characters.
Darxmarth23
Smash Champion
No one should work harder than the other person who mains the other character.
We should try to make the game as balanced as it could be.
Jocko
Smash Rookie
Yes, let's make every other player have to be twice as skilled to beat someone using Meta Knight
And wow, an Ice Climbers beat m2k's Meta Knight. Once. Ever.
L666
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- May 6, 2009
- Messages
- 31
I agree.
Tournament results have no significance. None.
Ban every character except MK.
Alus
Smash Champion
No I think that the problem is that people (as in a majority) look at his machups...and when they see lots of green they are like "OMG WTF!?"
Darxmarth23
Smash Champion
M2K had only two defeats.
Were the grand finals a set? That would be a more legitimate way to pin us pro bans down.
You are just using the big pic to get what you want.
****
Were the grand finals a set? That would be a more legitimate way to pin us pro bans down.
You are just using the big pic to get what you want.
****
Kinzer
Mammy
I dunno.
What would happen, if Captain Falcon took first at tourneys, with players like M2K and any other top-player, or some random Falcon guy beating said top-players?
Wow, two posts before this one.
What would happen, if Captain Falcon took first at tourneys, with players like M2K and any other top-player, or some random Falcon guy beating said top-players?
Wow, two posts before this one.
Darxmarth23
Smash Champion
Then falcon needs to be seriously re examined.
Mk is the dude who has his own tier ABOVE the dude who has his own tier.
It was always
S tier, then A- tier
Now its SS, S, A- tier.
L666
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- May 6, 2009
- Messages
- 31
Ally won 3-1. The last game wasn't even close, and it was M2K's CP.
What if a bird flied into your room, transformed into Wario, and farted in your nostrils?
Nic64
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,725
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
The second sentence... I agree with, and the only reason I included it is so you know that I read the whole post.
The first sentence? Are you ****ing kidding me?
Darxmarth23
Smash Champion
Kinzer
Mammy
At least Falcon winning a tournament is more realistic than this.
Point is tournament results do have some influence, and Darx quote/replying to me is proof that there is something seriously wrong with Falcon being at the bottom of the bottom tier if he can actually accomplish this.
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
Using the splitting system of the tier list is a very bad argument.
The SBR-members decided to split the tiers based upon the gaps in the average voting score. If you check out the jumps in between the digits from one tier to the next, you will notice bigger differences than to the numbers before.
Also, don't dare to say that Meta Knight is "perfect" because he got a voting score of 15 - cause that 15 just means that everyone agreed on Meta Knight being the best character in Brawl.
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