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Should tournaments really run both Melee and Brawl?

Kal

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
2,974
Many tournament hosts who were members of the Melee community seem content on running their post-Brawl tournaments as Brawl-Melee tournaments, with the same fee for each event. This seems to be more trouble than it's worth.

Instead, it seems that tournaments should be dedicated to either game, but not both. In other words, we should host Melee-only tournaments or Brawl-only tournaments. Several big name Texas Melee players do not enter Brawl tournaments, and the same holds for big name Texas Brawl players entering Melee tournaments. As such, it seems that, though there is potential for an increase in turnout to host a tournament with both games, the trouble of hosting both games exceeds the reward of having additional players. There exist too many Brawl-only and Melee-only players for venues to run tournaments for both games. Instead of inviting one community to play two games, the Brawl-Melee tournaments invite two communities to play two games.

Similarly, hosting them together enforces the notion that Brawl is the "sequel" to Melee. This discourages people unfamiliar with the smash series from entering the Melee events, as the common conclusion newbies are lead to when they see both games is that Brawl is an upgrade, when in fact it is an entirely different game with a very different meta-game. Because of this, they think "why enter the worse game?" when they should be thinking of Brawl and Melee as different games, and not necessarily of Brawl as an improvement over Melee.

Tournaments are significantly harder to run when there are two games to keep up with. It's hard enough just to run both singles and doubles for one game, let alone two games. It makes sense for people to stop trying to integrate the two communities, and instead let each of them host their own tournaments.
 

Firestorm88

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
1,249
Location
Vancouver, BC
What we're doing in BC for the most part is booking two day events. On the first day we do the legacy games. So 64 Singles, 64 Doubles, Melee Singles, and Melee Doubles. Since Brawl usually has a much larger turn-out, we do Brawl Singles and Brawl Doubles on the second day. Or reverse the order. It's working out pretty well. Although there are a few friends of mine who only play Melee that I don't get to see as often since I only play Brawl. That's also partly because it's too troublesome to book two days off for work =P
 

Axis

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Messages
168
Location
Bay Area
It's true that it is far more difficult to run multiple games at a single event (especially smaller ones) and people are forced to choose. Since Brawl is newer people are excited and are going to go to more events so more TO's are leaning towards it as of right now. I think as time goes by people who are just entering smash with the release of brawl will start to explore melee a bit more and the community will develop in a similar way to the street fighter community when third strike came out. Eventually we will get to where it will be more common for the games to be held in tandem as opposed to as segregated as they are now, it will just take time.
 

pockyD

Smash Legend
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Messages
11,926
Location
San Francisco, CA
There's nothing wrong with running both games; many smashers enjoy them both (and also, in a lot of places, melee-only tournaments can't survive)

It's up to the tournament directors to not bite of more than they can chew though; events don't always have enough setups // time to run that many events. It's not innately bad; it just turns bad when the TD tries to squeeze them in when there are insufficient resources
 

Reioumu

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Messages
1,073
Location
Muppetland 64
Melee is more fun and consistent than brawl, but it should be okay to run a side melee tourney at a brawl place. We've done it, even without the TO at Cyberden, but yeah, I think they should run both, but then time is a factor too :/.
-Rei
 

Zonderion

Smash Ace
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Jun 29, 2007
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I would suppose the most logical thing to do would to bring on more TOs. There are plenty of volunteers that specialize in either Melee or Brawl. Assign TO's specifically to the Melee tourny, and specifically the Brawl tournys. While you will still have the time constraint, after one tourny ends and the next start, the TOs that were on the 1st can finish handling it, while the 2nd set of TOs begin the 2nd tourny.
 

HyugaRicdeau

Baller/Shot-caller
Joined
Jun 4, 2003
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Slippi.gg
DRZ#283
It's hard for me to believe that anyone REALLY thinks the days of Melee have passed. I think Brawl is more popular right now because it's the newer game, and is more relevant right now. I don't really think a lot of people just STOPPED playing Melee forever simply because Brawl came out. From a critical standpoint I think Melee is a better game, but I enjoy both, and I intend to play Brawl more now simply because that's where the scene is right now and because I enjoy building skill at new games. Eventually Brawl will have to stand on its own beyond just being the new game; as that effect wears off, Melee will become more prominence. I don't see what's going on right now as Brawl killing Melee, just overshadowing it, for now.
 

Winston

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
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3,562
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Seattle, WA (slightly north of U-District)
It's hard for me to believe that anyone REALLY thinks the days of Melee have passed. I think Brawl is more popular right now because it's the newer game, and is more relevant right now. I don't really think a lot of people just STOPPED playing Melee forever simply because Brawl came out. From a critical standpoint I think Melee is a better game, but I enjoy both, and I intend to play Brawl more now simply because that's where the scene is right now and because I enjoy building skill at new games. Eventually Brawl will have to stand on its own beyond just being the new game; as that effect wears off, Melee will become more prominence. I don't see what's going on right now as Brawl killing Melee, just overshadowing it, for now.
Yeah, but I get the feeling that at the point you mention, simple inertia will keep the brawl scene going and the melee ranks sparse.
 

Jam Stunna

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I think it's pretty cool to have both run at tournaments. Melee will always be around. I mean really, no one ever actually stops playing a videogame. They just take a break from it.
 

AlphaZealot

Former Smashboards Owner
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
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Jul 6, 2003
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Melee will never have a year like 2007 again. That is my point. This year in terms of Melee attendance, after the release of Brawl, is looking like a flashback to 2004, maybe 2005.

Brawl is not a terrible enough game (I actually like, which game I like more I'm still undecided on) to warrant a reversion back to a game that, by the time such a reversion even has a chance of occurring, will be 9-10 years old.
 

Wife

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
1,641
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EC, MD
Tournaments for either game have trouble ending on time as it is. To include both games would be a real mistake I think.
 

RDK

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
6,390
Melee will never have a year like 2007 again. That is my point. This year in terms of Melee attendance, after the release of Brawl, is looking like a flashback to 2004, maybe 2005.

Brawl is not a terrible enough game (I actually like, which game I like more I'm still undecided on) to warrant a reversion back to a game that, by the time such a reversion even has a chance of occurring, will be 9-10 years old.
In my opinion, that's not a very valid reason to stop playing a game competitively. People have been playing Starcraft since 1998.

If the game is good (and Melee is very good), there's no reason to stop playing it just because it's aged.
 

SamDvds

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Messages
734
i just came from FAST and here's my opinion on it. Im glad they ran both games. had it been brawl only, I would not have gone, as many other OOS ppl probably wouldnt have either. On the day brawl teams was going on, there was a free melee singles side tourney and 40 ppl entered (who were bored of watching brawl). I am not on the brawl hate bandwagon yet, i enjoy playing it casually but in a competitive atmosphere, especially for brawl singles, it is the most boring thing ive ever had to sit through. It was horrible. The brawl noobs ended up being pool captains and didnt know how to run pools (they played all their matches in a row and then left), and many of them left and took their set-ups after they were eliminated, so there were 0 TV's for friendlies. Pools themselves took 7 hours. I dont see how running a brawl tourney of that size is ever going to be time efficient (at least for singles). My vote would be to have brawl doubles and melee singles at tourney events.
 

Frames

DI
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Sep 29, 2007
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Well, as the host of FAST, I think that running both games is ok as long as everyone finishes on time. The problem we had though was that we didn't have nearly enough setups so that people could play melee or brawl friendlies. Both games at a tournament is ok, but a tournament should NEVER be 4 days long again, it's just too ridiculous, that's too much smash for anyone lol. The problem though if you have a good melee turnout (we only had 30 teams and 78 singles), you need 4 days to do everything, because brawl will need 2 days. If i had planned for our size, I could've done melee in one day, but that wouldn't be fair to the people who love melee. So it's a tough decision, I think the best tournaments will be the ones that choose one over the other.
 

RDK

Smash Hero
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Jan 3, 2006
Messages
6,390
i heard that after fast, there were NO brawl set ups, it was str8 melee.
That's usually how it goes. It's funny how everyone migrates over to the Melee side to watch Melee friendlies over watching actual Brawl matches.
 

Lord Viper

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Should tournaments have both games, It's a yes and no answer. Yes for people that don't own a Wii to practice all the tech. of Brawl, or for people who rather play Melee in toruny wise.

No, unless you have a good amount of money to run them both. Not a lot of people will play a game in the past over a new game. That's just how it is.
 

Tbagz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
483
Location
Toms River, New Jersey
i Strongly agree they are 2 different games,and having melee in the brawl tournaments just takes to much time, since i lost most of my melee skill when i switched over to brawl, and alot of people still prefer brawl over melee, there should be seperate tournaments. for the melee community and the brawl community, your right
 

IShotLazer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
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Falcon kick.
Okay, well my initial opinion was GET BRAWL THE HELL OUT!. However, after a little more consideration I realized that if all tournaments became either one or the other it was going to become much harder keeping BOTH of them alive. Melee people would excommunicate Brawl, while the other side would be doing much the same instead of helping each other out to create a much larger better tournament scene for both games. Yes, it is very VERY painful to watch Brawl singles, in fact by the end of it even in FAST1 finals I was just playing basketball, but I do believe that most tournaments for the time being should attempt on hosting both.
 

IShotLazer

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Sep 23, 2007
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One thing annoyed me though. Even though it was my first major tournament... the Brawl people seemed completely oblivious to how things were supposed to be run, and they were much more greedy about things as well. There were more T.V's for Melee than there were for Brawl, yet there was a much larger Brawl attendance. Yes, Brawl hasn't been out for long so a lot of the people have little to no tournament experience but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you bring a T.V. the tournament will be more fun and much quicker with more friendlies.
 
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