I'll check it out tomorrow, I have two 3DS so I should be able to post all the KB values reported by the game.
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Shulk Monado Data Thread
- Thread starter KuroganeHammer
- Start date
Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
Yo Aero I was in the Shulk Q&A, but these questions seem better off asked here.
Questions:
Questions:
- Does Dash Vision's Forward input increase Shulk's lunge distance?
- Does Power Vision's Forward input decrease Shulk's lunge distance?
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Fully Charged F-smash (300% Jiggs, no smash) 372 KB > w/ Smash: 431
Ftilt/12% (300% Jiggs, no smash) 267 KB > w/ Smash: 310
Default Smash seems to be about a 16% increase in KB, from these two samples alone.
Extreme is about 34% ish
Decisive is about 24% ish
Edit: I need to retest counter. The powerful one did 10% randomly.
Ftilt/12% (300% Jiggs, no smash) 267 KB > w/ Smash: 310
Default Smash seems to be about a 16% increase in KB, from these two samples alone.
Extreme is about 34% ish
Decisive is about 24% ish
Edit: I need to retest counter. The powerful one did 10% randomly.
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MrWeavile
Smash Apprentice
Seems like each Monado art lasts 16 seconds, and recovers after 10 seconds.
Still don't know why there's an extra grey art when you try to change after using one.
Still don't know why there's an extra grey art when you try to change after using one.
ChronoPenguin
Smash Champion
Think it's to prevent the ****up swap.
Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
The gray Art I think mostly represents the Art on cooldown, based off the cooldown mechanic from Xenoblade
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imnotdannyboy
Smash Cadet
But we do know there's a special modifier somewhere for shield damage. That's why things like Mr. Saturn, the Fan, or the first hit of Bowser Bomb do bonus shield damage.
It's unlikely that Buster has this special modifier, though.
Virum
Smash Ace
Have we made note somewhere of the lasting time and the cooldown of all the Monado Art variations? If not:
Monado Arts: 16 seconds, 26 second cooldown after activation (or 10 second cooldown after termination)
Decisive Monado Arts: 20 seconds, 26 second cooldown after activation (or 6 second cooldown after termination)
Hyper Monado Arts: 6 seconds, 21 second cooldown after activation (or 15 second cooldown after termination)
I say after activation first since you can obviously cancel Monado Arts and Hyper Monado Arts at any time while they're activated, but the overall cooldown begins when you activate the Art. For example, say with regular Monado Arts I activate an art and then cancel it after 6 seconds I have to wait 20 seconds for it to be available again.
Monado Arts: 16 seconds, 26 second cooldown after activation (or 10 second cooldown after termination)
Decisive Monado Arts: 20 seconds, 26 second cooldown after activation (or 6 second cooldown after termination)
Hyper Monado Arts: 6 seconds, 21 second cooldown after activation (or 15 second cooldown after termination)
I say after activation first since you can obviously cancel Monado Arts and Hyper Monado Arts at any time while they're activated, but the overall cooldown begins when you activate the Art. For example, say with regular Monado Arts I activate an art and then cancel it after 6 seconds I have to wait 20 seconds for it to be available again.
Berserker.
:^)
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 18,990
Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
So apparently Vision "slows down" the opponent's intangibility, or outright prevents intangibility frames from happening.
http://youtu.be/iOjpCC6_TQc?t=1m1s
It looks like a time debuff onto Ike being blue still even after grabbing the ledge.
http://youtu.be/iOjpCC6_TQc?t=1m1s
It looks like a time debuff onto Ike being blue still even after grabbing the ledge.
Virum
Smash Ace
Nah it's just that he had no intangibility because he regrabbed the ledge.
Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
Got home watching this again but instead of 2x speed, I slowed it down to 1x speed & watched the specific clip of action. My mistake.
Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
I answered these questions for myself yesterday when testing some things here & there for the Visions. Basically how the Visions do is this:
-When grounded, Dash Vision's counterattack makes Shulk travel half the length of FD when he's at the very end of the ledge.
-Dash Vision's Forwarded lunge does increase his lunge distance more-so than regular Vision & Power Vision.
-Vision & Power Vision are practically the exact same distance in length, including their forwarded lunges too.
Overall, I tried testing for this fabled Tipper area of the Forward lunging Visions, but I had no luck in doing so with neither Dash VIsion nor Power Vision. Also for the measurements on distance I used the Omega Mushroomy Kingdom stage's square visual blocks, & FD for the half-way point about Dash Vision.
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ugh posting to confirm that monado arts seem to have been buffed or changed
speed's damage multiplier is like... 0.8 or more now
speed's damage multiplier is like... 0.8 or more now
Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
Good news pertaining to Hyper Speed's damage multiplier @
KuroganeHammer
. After remembering that I had created a stage that was ridiculously large having 1 very long drop-through platform at the very top & bottom of the screen, I got around to finally challenging Hyper Speed's current damage multiplier (0.63x) by trying to find out what it really is. I'm just gonna point out that Vanilla Dash Attack & F-throw deal 11% in Training Mode, but if we math, 11% x 0.63 = 6.93%. Yet in Training Mode, HSpeed Dash Attack / F-throw comes up as 7%.
In Training Mode, I set speed to 1.5 & kept hitting Bowser with either Dash Attack or F-throw, & when HSpeed's duration ends I just fall through the platform floor so that I could just die & fast fall back down. Rinse & Repeat. Here's my result:
Damages shown on screen from HSpeed Dash Attack or F-throw
7%, 14%, 21%, 28%, 35%, 42%, 49%, 56%, 63%, 70%, 77%, 84%, 91%, 98%, 105%, 112%, 119%, 126%, 133%, 140%, 147%, 154%, 161%, 168%, 175% 183%, 190%, 197%, 204%, 211%, 218%, 225%, 232%, 239%, 246%, 253%, 260%, 267%, 274%, 281%, 288%, 295%, 302%, 309%, 316%, 323%, 330%, 337%, 344%, 352%, 359%, 366%, 373%, 380%, 387%, 394%, 401%, 408%, 415%, 422%, 429%, 436%, 443%, 450%, 457%, 464%, 471%, 478%, 485%, 492%, 499%, 506%, 513%, ---
Note: Dash Attack kills too early for this particular testing so I replaced it with using F-throw & played table tennis essentially by myself until F-throw launches so far that I had to inch oh-so close to the blastline. I could roll & then die because I hit the blastzone, so I tried being exact & correct.
I couldn't go any farther than 513%. Either I made a small error or the CPU couldn't survive with or without my DI assistance past it. Even F-throw's gotta KO sometime.. .So the magic numbers to look at are ~183% & ~352%, because that's the two different values that can help determine the closest answer to HSpeed's damage multiplier (I hope).
183% was shown on screen from 26 hits of Dash Attack or F-throw, so 183 / 26 = 7.038461538
352% was shown on screen from 50 hits of Dash Attack or F-throw, so 352 / 50 = 7.04
Ultimately I couldn't find the exact multiplier though. I just wanna say that it could be 0.64x but that's ofc not precise but it's close enough.
I also apologize if this is a bother but it is the only thing I've noticed that was off about the Monado Art multipliers. Shoutouts to Dash Attack for making me notice this, even though it's one of Shulk's worst moves.
KuroganeHammer
. After remembering that I had created a stage that was ridiculously large having 1 very long drop-through platform at the very top & bottom of the screen, I got around to finally challenging Hyper Speed's current damage multiplier (0.63x) by trying to find out what it really is. I'm just gonna point out that Vanilla Dash Attack & F-throw deal 11% in Training Mode, but if we math, 11% x 0.63 = 6.93%. Yet in Training Mode, HSpeed Dash Attack / F-throw comes up as 7%.In Training Mode, I set speed to 1.5 & kept hitting Bowser with either Dash Attack or F-throw, & when HSpeed's duration ends I just fall through the platform floor so that I could just die & fast fall back down. Rinse & Repeat. Here's my result:
Damages shown on screen from HSpeed Dash Attack or F-throw
7%, 14%, 21%, 28%, 35%, 42%, 49%, 56%, 63%, 70%, 77%, 84%, 91%, 98%, 105%, 112%, 119%, 126%, 133%, 140%, 147%, 154%, 161%, 168%, 175% 183%, 190%, 197%, 204%, 211%, 218%, 225%, 232%, 239%, 246%, 253%, 260%, 267%, 274%, 281%, 288%, 295%, 302%, 309%, 316%, 323%, 330%, 337%, 344%, 352%, 359%, 366%, 373%, 380%, 387%, 394%, 401%, 408%, 415%, 422%, 429%, 436%, 443%, 450%, 457%, 464%, 471%, 478%, 485%, 492%, 499%, 506%, 513%, ---
Note: Dash Attack kills too early for this particular testing so I replaced it with using F-throw & played table tennis essentially by myself until F-throw launches so far that I had to inch oh-so close to the blastline. I could roll & then die because I hit the blastzone, so I tried being exact & correct.
I couldn't go any farther than 513%. Either I made a small error or the CPU couldn't survive with or without my DI assistance past it. Even F-throw's gotta KO sometime.
. .So the magic numbers to look at are ~183% & ~352%, because that's the two different values that can help determine the closest answer to HSpeed's damage multiplier (I hope).183% was shown on screen from 26 hits of Dash Attack or F-throw, so 183 / 26 = 7.038461538
352% was shown on screen from 50 hits of Dash Attack or F-throw, so 352 / 50 = 7.04
Ultimately I couldn't find the exact multiplier though. I just wanna say that it could be 0.64x but that's ofc not precise but it's close enough.
I also apologize if this is a bother but it is the only thing I've noticed that was off about the Monado Art multipliers. Shoutouts to Dash Attack for making me notice this, even though it's one of Shulk's worst moves.
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I ran a check. It's definitely 0.64x
actually i have a calculator you can use if you want
actually i have a calculator you can use if you want
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Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
That's fantastic, & yes to the max.
I almost forgot about Speed's damage multiplier difference before the v1.0.4 patch. . .0.72x? 0.8x feels like such a blessing now.
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http://kuroganehammer.com/aeromaths.htmlThat's fantastic, & yes to the max.
I almost forgot about Speed's damage multiplier difference before the v1.0.4 patch. . .0.72x? 0.8x feels like such a blessing now.
Berserker.
:^)
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 18,990
ty based aero
Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
Some questions @
KuroganeHammer
(sorry for tagging, I just don't if you have your thread watched or not.)
Are there ways to figure out Decisive Shield Shulk's knockback decrease & shield strength? Accordingly to numbers from the Monado Arts, Decisive Arts, & Hyper Arts, Decisive Arts are the ideal middle strength between regular Arts & Hyper Arts. So what if we add both Shield & Hyper Shield's stats together & then divide it in half? If we did that, the +~44 from Shield & +~87 from Hyper Shield would make Decisive Shield's increase to +~65.5. Though I would rather come to that conclusion through a means of finding that value by testing for it. Would doing the Metal Box test in Training Mode using Falco's F-tilt work?
I've also wanted to help find out just how much the Shield, Decisive Shield, & Hyper Shield Arts increase Shulk's shield strength. Shield Shulk's full bubble shield can handle one thrown Mr. Saturn but that's it. Meanwhile Shield Shulk's bubble shield reset after being broken has enough shield strength to not be broken by Jigglypuff's Pound 11%(+20?). You mentioned once that Hyper Shield Shulk's full bubble shield can withstand Marth's full charged tipper Shield Breaker which is fantastic, & that's 24%(+50?). But Hyper Shield Shulk's bubble shield reset after being broken can't withstand a thrown Mr. Saturn.
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Finding Hyper Buster's Damage Received Multiplier (currently it's 1.35x)
In Training Mode I used two Shulks, one having Hyper Buster active while the other Shulk stay Vanilla while pummeling the Hyper Buster Shulk. I won't type out the numbers but basically I compared some suggested multipliers like 1.355, 1.3559, 1.357 etc. etc..
@
ChronoPenguin
's estimated damage multiplier for Hyper Buster receiving damage was pretty close, so I went off 1.35x & found out that 1.356 is a more precise damage received multiplier. It might not be the exact multiplier but using Aerodrome's aeromaths calculator, every number that was displayed & wrote down in Training Mode matched every number on Aero's personal awesome maths calculator.
TL;DR Hyper Buster's current damage received multiplier is more close to be 1.356x.
KuroganeHammer
(sorry for tagging, I just don't if you have your thread watched or not.)Are there ways to figure out Decisive Shield Shulk's knockback decrease & shield strength? Accordingly to numbers from the Monado Arts, Decisive Arts, & Hyper Arts, Decisive Arts are the ideal middle strength between regular Arts & Hyper Arts. So what if we add both Shield & Hyper Shield's stats together & then divide it in half? If we did that, the +~44 from Shield & +~87 from Hyper Shield would make Decisive Shield's increase to +~65.5. Though I would rather come to that conclusion through a means of finding that value by testing for it. Would doing the Metal Box test in Training Mode using Falco's F-tilt work?
I've also wanted to help find out just how much the Shield, Decisive Shield, & Hyper Shield Arts increase Shulk's shield strength. Shield Shulk's full bubble shield can handle one thrown Mr. Saturn but that's it. Meanwhile Shield Shulk's bubble shield reset after being broken has enough shield strength to not be broken by Jigglypuff's Pound 11%(+20?). You mentioned once that Hyper Shield Shulk's full bubble shield can withstand Marth's full charged tipper Shield Breaker which is fantastic, & that's 24%(+50?). But Hyper Shield Shulk's bubble shield reset after being broken can't withstand a thrown Mr. Saturn.
════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
Finding Hyper Buster's Damage Received Multiplier (currently it's 1.35x)
In Training Mode I used two Shulks, one having Hyper Buster active while the other Shulk stay Vanilla while pummeling the Hyper Buster Shulk. I won't type out the numbers but basically I compared some suggested multipliers like 1.355, 1.3559, 1.357 etc. etc..
@
ChronoPenguin
's estimated damage multiplier for Hyper Buster receiving damage was pretty close, so I went off 1.35x & found out that 1.356 is a more precise damage received multiplier. It might not be the exact multiplier but using Aerodrome's aeromaths calculator, every number that was displayed & wrote down in Training Mode matched every number on Aero's personal awesome maths calculator.TL;DR Hyper Buster's current damage received multiplier is more close to be 1.356x.
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Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
Eyy I have updates on the shield health points for Monado Shield, Decisive Shield, & Hyper Shield.
For testing, I used two of the same character using the same move & held shield in the respective Shield art. Here's my results:
Monado Shield's bubble shield can withstand two Ganondorf Warlock Punches, but cannot withstand two Bowser fully charged Fsmashes. Warlock Punch deals 30% & two make it 60%, while Bowser's fully charged Fsmash sweetspotted deals ~32% making two deal ~64%. The decimal placings for ~64% could make it closer to 65%, but I won't go that far. Another example is using two Lucarios at 136 - 138% Aura using fully charged forward smashes deal a total amount of ~62% ALMOST breaks Monado Shield's bubble shield. At 139% Aura though, two Lucario fully charged forward smashes deal ~63%, which breaks Monado Shield's shield.
TL;DR I think Monado Shield's shield health is 63 HP.
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Decisive Shield's bubble shield can withstand two Ganondorf fully charged Fsmashes dealing ~67%. I couldn't really find a move that deals a flat amount of 35% to deal 70% so. Testing two Lucarios' fully charged forward smashes in training mode at 162% Aura simultaneously hitting deal ~68% (very close to 69%) ALMOST breaks Decisive Shield's bubble shield. Once the two Lucarios were at 163% Aura, their fully charged forward smashes deal a total of ~69%, which breaks Decisive Shield's shield.
TL;DR I think Decisive Shield's shield health is 69 HP.
════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
Hyper Shield's bubble shield can withstand two Ganondorf B-Reversed Grounded Warlock Punches, but cannot withstand two Gannondorf Aerial Warlock Punches. B-Reversed Grounded Warlock Punch deals 37% making two deal 74%, while two Aerial Warlock Punches performed on a custom stage deal 76%. Two Lucarios at 182 - 185% Aura fully charging forward smash deals ~74%, ALMOST breaks Hyper Shield's bubble shield. Then you put the Lucarios at 186% which deals ~75% almost almost breaks Hyper Shield's shield, but at 187% Aura dealing ~75% the forward smashes will break the shield.
TL;DR I think Hyper Shield's bubble shield health is 75 HP.
For testing, I used two of the same character using the same move & held shield in the respective Shield art. Here's my results:
Monado Shield's bubble shield can withstand two Ganondorf Warlock Punches, but cannot withstand two Bowser fully charged Fsmashes. Warlock Punch deals 30% & two make it 60%, while Bowser's fully charged Fsmash sweetspotted deals ~32% making two deal ~64%. The decimal placings for ~64% could make it closer to 65%, but I won't go that far. Another example is using two Lucarios at 136 - 138% Aura using fully charged forward smashes deal a total amount of ~62% ALMOST breaks Monado Shield's bubble shield. At 139% Aura though, two Lucario fully charged forward smashes deal ~63%, which breaks Monado Shield's shield.
TL;DR I think Monado Shield's shield health is 63 HP.
════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
Decisive Shield's bubble shield can withstand two Ganondorf fully charged Fsmashes dealing ~67%. I couldn't really find a move that deals a flat amount of 35% to deal 70% so.
Testing two Lucarios' fully charged forward smashes in training mode at 162% Aura simultaneously hitting deal ~68% (very close to 69%) ALMOST breaks Decisive Shield's bubble shield. Once the two Lucarios were at 163% Aura, their fully charged forward smashes deal a total of ~69%, which breaks Decisive Shield's shield.TL;DR I think Decisive Shield's shield health is 69 HP.
════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
Hyper Shield's bubble shield can withstand two Ganondorf B-Reversed Grounded Warlock Punches, but cannot withstand two Gannondorf Aerial Warlock Punches. B-Reversed Grounded Warlock Punch deals 37% making two deal 74%, while two Aerial Warlock Punches performed on a custom stage deal 76%. Two Lucarios at 182 - 185% Aura fully charging forward smash deals ~74%, ALMOST breaks Hyper Shield's bubble shield. Then you put the Lucarios at 186% which deals ~75% almost almost breaks Hyper Shield's shield, but at 187% Aura dealing ~75% the forward smashes will break the shield.
TL;DR I think Hyper Shield's bubble shield health is 75 HP.
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