Data Shulk's Frame Data [Deleted]

[Masonomace]

Yo Aerodrome I feel you knew about it but the Shield Arts also increase the bubble shield's regeneration per second.

Almost break your shield & have Hyper Shield activated soon after. Wait 6 seconds, put up shield again, & be amazed from the bubble shield almost being fully healed to Max HP. Crazy regen.

 

[Thor]

Aerodrome this is a little nit-picky or maybe not fixable [due to how it's coded], but shield mode reduces knockback sustained and it's in red, while jump increases knockback sustained and it's green. Shouldn't those colors be flipped to be the other color, since the rest of the chart's color coding suggests that green is a positive for Shulk and red is a downside? [Fall speed increase is arguably bad but I think it tends to benefit Shulk, or at least it's arguable enough to leave it as is.]

 

[Masonomace]

while jump increases knockback sustained and it's green. Shouldn't those colors be flipped to be the other color, since the rest of the chart's color coding suggests that green is a positive for Shulk and red is a downside? [Fall speed increase is arguably bad but I think it tends to benefit Shulk, or at least it's arguable enough to leave it as is.]

Falling Speed is good yet can be a pain. The increase of fall speed helps Jump Shulk resists vertical knockback slightly better than Vanilla Shulk. Although, the amount of damage taken versus the falling speed increase clashing together makes it a mixed feeling I feel.

Falling Speed increases as you use the stronger Jump Arts Decisive Jump & Hyper Jump too.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Aerodrome this is a little nit-picky or maybe not fixable [due to how it's coded], but shield mode reduces knockback sustained and it's in red, while jump increases knockback sustained and it's green. Shouldn't those colors be flipped to be the other color, since the rest of the chart's color coding suggests that green is a positive for Shulk and red is a downside? [Fall speed increase is arguably bad but I think it tends to benefit Shulk, or at least it's arguable enough to leave it as is.]

It's fixable, but the idea generally is that red = decreased, but not necessarily = bad.

Although generally being heavier than a truck is good. :>

 

[Masonomace]

Apologies if this question was answered Aerodrome, but it's in regards to Air Slash's 1st hit.

Would the Jump Arts cause any change in Air Slash's 1st hit frame data since the height increases? Jump Arts extend the hitbox of Air Slash, but I feel that the Air Slash augmented by a Jump Art just speeds up the attack because you're rising much higher than Vanilla Air Slash.

From the data, standard Air Slash Hit 1 is active F10 - F17. After looking at those numbers, I went back to a custom stage I created & used it to help determine the vertical height range of moves, like Air Slash for example. I don't think it will help but I did a Vertical Range Test of the Air Slash, Advancing Air Slash, & Mighty Air Slash along with the 3 different Jump Arts:

Air Slash 1st hit connects from the Floor to the 10th platform
Air Slash 1st hit (Jump) connects from the Floor to the 12th platform
Air Slash 1st hit (Decisive Jump) connects from the Floor to the 13th platform
Air Slash 1st hit (Hyper Jump) connects from the Floor to the 13th platform

Advancing Air Slash 1st hit connects from the Floor to the 10th platform
Advancing Air Slash 1st hit (Jump) connects from the Floor to the 12th platform
Advancing Air Slash 1st hit (Decisive Jump) connects from the Floor to the 13th platform
Advancing Air Slash 1st hit (Hyper Jump) connects from the Floor to the 13th platform

Mighty Air Slash 1st hit connects from the Floor to the 10th platform
Mighty Air Slash 1st hit (Jump) connects from the Floor to the 11th platform
Mighty Air Slash 1st hit (Decisive Jump) connects from the Floor to the 11th platform
Mighty Air Slash 1st hit (Hyper Jump) connects from the Floor to the 12th platform

Spoiler: This is when Air Slash from below starts dealing 5% to the other Shulk standing on the 5th platform

Note: From the Floor to the 4th platform just barely above Shulk's hair, he'll deal 6%.

Spoiler: This is the maximum height Air Slash will hit for 5% on the 10th platform

Spoiler: This is Jump Shulk's Air Slash hitting for 5% on the 11th platform

Spoiler: This is the maximum height that Jump Shulk's Air Slash will hit 5% on the 12th platform

Note: Jump Shulk will not be able to hit the other Shulk if he were to stand on the 13th platform.

 

[Eeveecario]

I might be late about this, but my curiosity won't leave me rest if I don't ask.

When Shulk is in buster, is there a ratio directly applied to the knockback? Or it is applied for the BKB / KBG?
I know that question can't be answered because we don't have a debug mode. But is it possible to compare both vanilla/buster launch speed?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I believe that it's just a knockback multiplier for both Buster and Smash, which explains why Vision on really strong attacks has more knockback in Buster than it does in Smash.

 

[Eeveecario]

Do you have a precise number for the knockback ratio? I might be able to help you with some numbers.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Do you have a precise number for the knockback ratio? I might be able to help you with some numbers.

Perhaps masonomace or berserker have numbers.

I'm working right now.

 

[erico9001]

We do not have multipliers.

I'm certain that the knockback Monado Smash and Monado Shield TAKE is just a multiplier at the end. Monado Shield actually takes moves below their base knockback, and Hyper Smash can be 1 hit KO'd by certain high base knockback moves at 0% (this is why we also know that it's a multiplier and not a weight change). Now, the kill percents of Hyper Smash dealing knockback are actually somewhat similar to the kill percents of Hyper Smash taking knockback. However, when Hyper Smash is dealing knockback, there are obviously no 1 hit KO's or anything even close to that.

I think a decent representation of this is the first hit of regular or mighty air slash. The move is purely weighted base knockback. Characters go the same height with it whether hit by buster or smash. However, if Smash or Hyper Smash is hit by the move, they do change the height. We might be able to use this to figure out the multiplier that Smash/Shield have with their knockback taken. Just set up a custom stage, take pictures, and compare height differences in order to figure out the difference. We could do it with both mighty air slash and regular air slash and compare results. This might not work, because it could be something more complex than multiplication... but it's worth a shot!

I'm not sure what is changed in the knockback formula for Smash/Buster dealing knockback. It looks like the moves of Buster deal less than their base knockback, so I would think a multiplier after base knockback in the formula... where the r is. However, Smash does not come anywhere close to one hit KO'ing people, as it would if it was just a simple multiplier. Perhaps there is a different multiplier applied to base knockback and knockback growth!

@ KuroganeHammer , do you know how weighted base knockback works with the formula? I can't find any information about that.

Also, @ KuroganeHammer , could you fix U-tilt's active frames in the frame data? The first U-tilt hitbox is from 11-23, not 11-12. That hitbox is for the red, metal part of the Monado, while the other one is for the beam. They both last until frame 23.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

With Weight Dependent Set Knockback

(((((10/10)+((10*d)/20))*(200/(w+100))*1.4)+18)*(g/100))+b

Variables
d = Weight Dependent Set Knockback
w = Weight
g = Knockback Growth
b = Base Knockback

 

[LimitCrown]

I had tested the amount of knockback that Shulk takes while using the regular and Hyper Smash Monado Arts beforehand. Shulk sustains approximately 1.05x as much knockback while using the regular Smash Monado Art and sustains approximately 1.17x as much knockback while using the Hyper Smash art.

 

[Masonomace]

There's two extra damage values in Back Slash that aren't mentioned but I'm not surprised since it's rare trying to get those damages in the Landing phase. I've gotten used to the three phases aka hitbox portions of Back Slash from this pastebin, which are Startup, Fall, & Landing.

Here's quoted info from the pastebin:

1. Back Slash (startup)
2. Frame 31-41: 16%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 101%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
3. Frame 31-41: 14%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 118%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
4. Frame 31-41: 10%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 166%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
5. Frame 31-41: 9%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 184%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
6. Frame 34-41: 16%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 101%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
7. Frame 34-41: 14%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 118%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
8. Frame 34-41: 10%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 166%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
9. Frame 34-41: 9%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 184%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
10. Max Damage: 16%
11. 
    
12. Back Slash (fall)
13. Frame 1- 2: 16%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 101%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
14. Frame 1- 2: 14%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 118%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
15. Frame 1- 2: 10%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 166%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
16. Frame 1- 2: 9%(+7) 30b/100g (KO@ 184%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
17. Max Damage: 16%
18. 
    
19. Back Slash (landing)
20. Frame 1- 2: 15%(+10) 25b/100g (KO@ 114%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
21. Frame 1- 2: 13%(+10) 25b/100g (KO@ 133%) 140° 1.5-Hitlag Slash Away-Facing-Target-Only
22. Frame 1- 2: 10%(+10) 25b/100g (KO@ 172%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
23. Frame 1- 2: 9%(+10) 25b/100g (KO@ 190%) 361° 0.8-Hitlag Slash
24. Max Damage: 15%

The Back Slash (landing) damage values 15% & 13% also have 25 BKB so it would be something different to add. Though, the 10% & 9% in the Landing phase also have 25 BKB & all four damage results have the (+10) shield damage modifier so there would be a difference. . .plus it would of been silly to look at a bunch of numbers for 16%, 14%, 10%, & 9% because they're all spread across Back Slash's Startup & Fall phases.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Thanks

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Hello all. Just wanted to share the frame data I collected for Shulk. Includes stuff on block as well as data for all of his customs.

I'm probably way off on the counter's active frames since I'm counting off of the character flashing, so I'll be rechecking those when I get the chance (and update the default counter with Kurogane's data). If I missed anything else feel free to let me know.

I also took the liberty of checking the block advantage of each of Shulk's moves in each of his arts, including Decisive and Hyper. The changes in advantage are minor but are still there nonetheless.

 

[Berserker.]

Hello all. Just wanted to share the frame data I collected for Shulk. Includes stuff on block as well as data for all of his customs.

I'm probably way off on the counter's active frames since I'm counting off of the character flashing, so I'll be rechecking those when I get the chance (and update the default counter with Kurogane's data). If I missed anything else feel free to let me know.

I also took the liberty of checking the block advantage of each of Shulk's moves in each of his arts, including Decisive and Hyper. The changes in advantage are minor but are still there nonetheless.

Aw yeees. Thanks for doing this :D

The buster numbers make me really happy lmao

 

[Masonomace]

Yo Kuro I skimmed Shulk's Frame data from & noticed this difference.

This frame data for Bair is from Dantarion / Thinkaman / whoever I didn't mention:

1. Bair
2. Frame 18-22: 12% 35b/100g (KO@ 134%) 361° Slash
3. Frame 21-22: 8% 35b/100g (KO@ 197%) 361° Slash

This frame data for Bair is from your website:

Attack | Hitbox Active | Base Dmg.
Bair | 18-20 | 12
Bair (Late) | 21-22 | 8

I don't know if you knew but I'm gonna throw it out there & say that you know. Also what Erico brought up about U-tilt's sweetspot frame data is correct. The sweetspot does begin on Frame 11 & is active all the way behind Shulk, so if a tall character is positioned closely behind Shulk they'll get hit by the Blade sweetspot 8%. 11 - 23 is the right active hitbox window.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I know about this. It will be fixed when all character pages are complete.

 

[Berserker.]

I made sure that the prefix is 100% accurate :^)

 

[gridatttack]

I have to wonder, does anyone knows the frames when you are invincible while an art has activated? I thought it was the same window for all arts, but I read in the AT thread that it varies between arts, with jump having the smallest window.

 

[Masonomace]

I have to wonder, does anyone knows the frames when you are invincible while an art has activated? I thought it was the same window for all arts, but I read in the AT thread that it varies between arts, with jump having the smallest window.

The amount of intangibility I feel is the same throughout every art. Right now though, no, we don't know the exact window of intangibility frames.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I updated this, so there shouldn't be any errors.

 

[Masonomace]

So the cooldown for Monado arts is actually 11 seconds (660 frames) instead of the presumed 10 seconds (600 frames) eh? Also, super thanks to the max for updating it.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

It never was 10 seconds, I'd always assumed it was 11 and I still never confirmed it so it's still just a guess,

 

[Masonomace]

I see. Did an individual find the frame data for the intangibility within the Monado art activation? I only gave an estimate by going off of labbing in 1/4x (Hold L) speed, so it's not truly correct.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Oh I found it. 1-14 intangible, FAF of 6.

 

[Masonomace]

Oh I found it. 1-14 intangible, FAF of 6.

You're amazing. I was messing around with it in Training mode & also realized that if Shulk were to input an action, the intangibility window gets shortened. So if I inputted something like Jabbing, crouching, dashing, etc., then I'd have less intangibility. Would the FAF being 6 mean that's the earliest frame the intangibility finishes if interrupting Shulk's unique pose?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yes, that's right.

 

[Masonomace]

Oh & may I suggest adding in color coding for Dair (Hit 1) & Dair (Hit 2)? I'd ask about Up smash's ground-targeted-only hitbox getting a color, but it has a row dedicated to it.

Attacks | Base Dmg. | Angle
Down air (Hit 1) | 5 / 7 | 172 / 160
Down air (Hit 2) | 11 /11/10 | 270 /361\361

EDIT: May Shulk also get a (+SD) addition under 1.3 Special Moves specifically for Back Slash? It'd read like this:

Attacks | Base Dmg. (+SD)
Back Slash | 10/9/16/14 (+7)
Back Slash (Landing) | 10/9/15/13 (+10)

 

[KuroganeHammer]

This guide has been removed and is no longer available.

 

[Berserker.]

Guys, just go to this link if you want aero/kuro's frame data for Shulk

 

[Masonomace]

So just coming back to clarify something I asked before, I messed around with the whole "Is Jump Air Slash's frame data any different from a Vanilla Air Slash?" question & just used two Shulks side-by-side hitting with their sweetspot startup & the sourspot at its latest hitting reach (I don't know why I didn't think to try this the first time when I posted about this earlier in May).

A barrel on the floor or on the 4th platform gets hit with the sweetspot for both Jump & Vanilla at the same time, so no change there. Then I tested the sourspot's maximum reach between Jump hitting a barrel on the 12th paltform & Vanilla hitting a barrel on the 10th platform, & both hit their respective barrel targets at the same time.

So no. Jump art doesn't change frame data, but rather it extends the hitbox & travels faster vertically (which is what we kinda knew already, but at least it was worth trying for the sake of trivial information).

 

[KuroganeHammer]

This guide has been removed and is no longer available.