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Simple Questions & Answers Thread (READ FAQ in OP)

ConF1ictz

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ive tried and tried but still cant seem to cancel the lag after the upB even when im close to the stage, i was watching a few videos and someone did it from the height of the platforms in pokemon staium, i have no idea whats going on.

is there a difference between the stage itslef and the platforms on it, because i keep falling on my back?

btw i think im going to drop Ice Climbers as my main and pick up DK, i like him more
 

Chaosgriffin

Smash Ace
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ive tried and tried but still cant seem to cancel the lag after the upB even when im close to the stage, i was watching a few videos and someone did it from the height of the platforms in pokemon staium, i have no idea whats going on.

is there a difference between the stage itslef and the platforms on it, because i keep falling on my back?

btw i think im going to drop Ice Climbers as my main and pick up DK, i like him more
Ok, try this out. Go to battlefield, get on one of the platforms (not the top one), stnad on the very edge of the platform. You should get this like almost falling off animation, when you see that, input the up-b then immediatly hold over on the control stick to go off of the stage. You should land laglessly that way.
 

Jebu-95

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Would Somebody have any advice against ZSS and Wario? I'll probably be playing a Ness main tomorrow who uses both Wario and ZSS as well. These 2 MU's are completely alien to me .__.
 

¿Qué?

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Well, remember with Wario, you got some amazing priority on the Usmash.

Grab release him at about 80% or 90% to be safe, and Usmash. He can't do anything about the grab release. You also have a double Bair combo into rofl copter from grab release which should get him too 70%.

If anything, if you use DK and he knows his disadvantages, he won't use Ness. You get free kills on his recovery.

ZSS is a bit tough for DK. You really need to watch for the Dsmash. She can combo DK infinitely, if I'm not mistaken. ZSS dies early, so Dsmash at 80 or 90% should do the trick. Watch for her sideB and UpB.
 

Chaosgriffin

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Texas, where DK planks
For wario, do retreating back airs, reverse up tilts, and pivot grab his landing. He will try to get inside you from the air. So do not let him, if you are not sure what to do or can not catch on his patterns walking away is a good tactic at first.


ZSS......dont jump
 

Kite0692

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Guys I read that DK´s Bair > Marth Fair. Do you think its a good idea to b-throw him out of stage and abuse of Bair priority over Fair?
 

Chaosgriffin

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Texas, where DK planks
It depends on percent, if you throw him far the back throw I and he can recover low I would not try it, cause he has up b which is extremely hard to beat, and we can not go too low to bair AND recover.

But if the throw does not cause him to go that far so he recovers somewhat around stage level, then i would say go for it.
 

Neon!

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Would Somebody have any advice against ZSS and Wario? I'll probably be playing a Ness main tomorrow who uses both Wario and ZSS as well. These 2 MU's are completely alien to me .__.
Oddly enough I played 2 zss's in my bracket at mlg dallas.
-She can be really hard to approach when she has her armor pieces at first,
dont try to compete with her by trying to catch them and throw them back,
dk's throwing animation is far too slow.
-Approach from the ground mainly and attempt to PS her attacks, shielding by itself
doesnt work too well.
-edgeguard her semi-aggressively and watch out for down-b > spike.
-This match must be played patiently as getting inside he zone can be hard, because her grab is terrible people often assume it isnt there and play too aggressively up close. Keep in mind that she has a 1 frame jab that has plenty of follow up options.
 

Jebu-95

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Thanks to Peachguard, Chaosgriffin and Neon for the advice!
Strangely enough, I didnt even have to play those MUs that day. It was actually a small tourney where I went.

What happened: My first match was against the same Ness main I was talking about. He picked Ness against DK (lolwut) which lead to me 2-0ing him thanks to the CG. Next up I was against someone who used Olimar. He won 2-0 (second match was played on Japes duh). In losers bracket I was up against my friend who uses Falco. It was really close, but he ended up winning 2-1 anyway. I had a tie-breaker match for 5th place against an other Falco (I won 2-1). Ended up placing 5 out of 8 (yeah, this was really small).

I just discovered how horribly annoying GaW and Olimar can be .__.
I never seem to be able to gimp Olimar with bair since they just whistle through it. GaW always seem to get inside with his Bair and Nair. Does anyone happen to have some good MU experience against these 2?
 

Neon!

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Thanks to Peachguard, Chaosgriffin and Neon for the advice!
Strangely enough, I didnt even have to play those MUs that day. It was actually a small tourney where I went.

What happened: My first match was against the same Ness main I was talking about. He picked Ness against DK (lolwut) which lead to me 2-0ing him thanks to the CG. Next up I was against someone who used Olimar. He won 2-0 (second match was played on Japes duh). In losers bracket I was up against my friend who uses Falco. It was really close, but he ended up winning 2-1 anyway. I had a tie-breaker match for 5th place against an other Falco (I won 2-1). Ended up placing 5 out of 8 (yeah, this was really small).

I just discovered how horribly annoying GaW and Olimar can be .__.
I never seem to be able to gimp Olimar with bair since they just whistle through it. GaW always seem to get inside with his Bair and Nair. Does anyone happen to have some good MU experience against these 2?
Not so much Gdubs, but olimar i know pretty well. I mm'd logic at dallas and learned a few things. We have all the tools to completely wreck him, but its very hard to get inside his zone.
This can be an annoying match if he doesnt approach at all and just camps, but there are ways around it. Watch for purple pikmin and kill them, use uair to kill attached pikmin. When he's running low on pikmin, rush him down. dash-downB works and can surprise him, jab is great for punishing and puts him in the air, pursue his landing with down-b or up-b. Edgeguard aggressively, bait the whistle.

You have to be very careful how you approach, these are the moves you should be using (and they all must be spaced very well to avoid getting grabbed)
-Bair, use it to kill pikmin he throws at you and for zoning, at low percents can combo into ftilt
-Ftilt, use to poke or punish
-ground pound, can kill pikmin on ground, out ranges all of his ground moves.
-utilt, juggles him well
-jab, use to punish up close
-up-b, use to punish landing or use it as a mixup

I practiced this matchup alot online (where its even harder for dk) and i think its 60:40 in olimars favor.
 

PolarBear

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Guys I read that DK´s Bair > Marth Fair. Do you think its a good idea to b-throw him out of stage and abuse of Bair priority over Fair?
Marth's fair is so annoying because it comes out so quick. DK has more range I believe, but be careful when you're challenging the fair and make sure you're spacing.

I know this has been asked a million times...but I need help with the full invincibility when leaving a platform. It seems that sometimes the invincibility doesn't last through out, even when I leave the platform in the first few frames. Can somebody tell me the frames I need to leave on and give some general advice?
 

Chaosgriffin

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Marth's fair is so annoying because it comes out so quick. DK has more range I believe, but be careful when you're challenging the fair and make sure you're spacing.

I know this has been asked a million times...but I need help with the full invincibility when leaving a platform. It seems that sometimes the invincibility doesn't last through out, even when I leave the platform in the first few frames. Can somebody tell me the frames I need to leave on and give some general advice?
Well first off its not invincibility its super armor when up bing from a platform.

What i do, is stand on the ledge and move the edge, until you get the almost falling off animation. Then do up b and immediately hold to the side so you fall off the platform and you should have super armor.
 

PolarBear

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Well first off its not invincibility its super armor when up bing from a platform.

What i do, is stand on the ledge and move the edge, until you get the almost falling off animation. Then do up b and immediately hold to the side so you fall off the platform and you should have super armor.
That's what I do, use the up b during that animation, and I can land lagless. Only thing is that it seems like it doesn't work all the time. Maybe certain moves cancel it out, I'm leaving too soon (don't know if that's possible) or leaving too late. Either way, I thought if you could initiate it in the frames it takes to land lagless, the super armor should be through out.
 

Ripple

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if you're landing lagless but not getting the SA, then you are leaving TOO EARLY.

I personally always run off the platform. use your up-b when your 2/3 of the way across the platform
 

Jebu-95

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*Jebu is once again writing a message into this thread*

Does anyone have any advice for one's first tournament? Tomorrow, I'll be going to my first real tournament with about 18-22 people (my 2 previous ones were mini-tourneys with only 8 ppl). It's going to be Finlands first Brawl-only tourney since our Brawl scene has just started growing even though we do have a ton of Melee players.

I'll be using DK in the tourney :) Some of my biggest threats as players are most likely going to be a Falco main, a MK main, a Diddy main, a Olimar player, a DDD main (the player alone makes this MU 90-10. He's just too good) and a Pika main.
I would really really appreciate any advice from the more "pro" players. I usually tend to be a bit nervous in MMs and Tourney Matches which has appearently led to a few SDs before.
 

Dumbfire

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a DDD main (the player alone makes this MU 90-10. He's just too good)
Yeah, Skin is pretty good.
Just don't get nervous. Its just a game and all. The around 15 euros really won't matter that much in your wallet, and you get grat fun with it, no reason to get nervous.
 

MechWarriorNY

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How do you perform the platform invincibility glitch, if there is one?
Is it a timing thing more than anything?
I can perfect land while upbing off a platform, but without
the invincibility.
 

Ripple

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How do you perform the platform invincibility glitch, if there is one?
Is it a timing thing more than anything?
I can perfect land while upbing off a platform, but without
the invincibility.
no invincibility, just super armor
 

¿Qué?

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If I'm not mistaken, certain moves strong enough can break it.

Like Wario's Fsmash. It has Super Armor as well, so it beats out DK's invincible rofl copter.
 

DtJ S2n

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How do you perform the platform invincibility glitch, if there is one?
Is it a timing thing more than anything?
I can perfect land while upbing off a platform, but without
the invincibility.
There is no invincibility glitch off of platforms, but the Super Armor glitch is still useful. It's definitely the timing, you need to leave the platform during the grounded super armor frames (10-16), which is basically a little after he puts his arm up before he spins. Also, if you plan on landing laglessly, you have to leave the platform towards the start of those frames, not sure when.

And I don't think you can beat the aerial super-armor up-b like that, if that's what you meant PeachGuard. You can't clank the aerial version and the super-armor on ours lasts longer than theirs.
 

¿Qué?

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There is no invincibility glitch off of platforms, but the Super Armor glitch is still useful. It's definitely the timing, you need to leave the platform during the grounded super armor frames (10-16), which is basically a little after he puts his arm up before he spins. Also, if you plan on landing laglessly, you have to leave the platform towards the start of those frames, not sure when.

And I don't think you can beat the aerial super-armor up-b like that, if that's what you meant PeachGuard. You can't clank the aerial version and the super-armor on ours lasts longer than theirs.
OHH okayy.
 

¿Qué?

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Well, Kirby's grab is quick as hell. It might be possible he can grab us in between hit frames.
 

DtJ S2n

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We definitely can be grabbed during it. Tether grabs can get it, some pivot grabs can. Snake's grab can, he grabs well above his head when he does it. I imagine Bowser's klaw, and yoshi's egg lay could too, not sure about Wario's bite. I'm not exactly sure what happens when you try and super armor up-b into a tornado, I think bad things would happen :urg:.

And peachguard, I'm pretty sure all grabs are the same start-up, sans tethers and Zelda.
 

DtJ S2n

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Oh that's me! I'll go through what I know for all the stages.

Normal- Hopefully you can figure this out for yourself. The platforms are at a really good height for you to abuse. In general it's a really long stage, so if you control the center/push your opponent towards the edge, you'll live pretty long.

Ground- Check out that Cubone. If both you and your opponent are fighting on the left side of the stage, your down-b goes up and down the slope really well, it actually gets a range boost because of the slope. If you fastfall into the slope with an aerial, or just fast fall into it, you'll get a significant slide down it, making some aerials safer. If you're on the left, and he's on the right, your best option is probably to just wait it out. If you want to stay aggressive, you'll want to get around the opponent and get on his right, use the platforms to keep out of reach. If you're on the right and he's on the left, your u-tilt and b-air can hit through the ground if he's too close. Otherwise, just go to the right and pester him with down-b or whatever. If you're both on the right, you probably want to be on the right side of him to abuse the wall; even if you don't infinite you can do some pretty sweet combos off it.

Electric- Preferably, you want to control the center here. Stronger attacks like giant punch and f-smash can knock a shielding opponent onto the treadmills if they're shield camping there. When you're in the center, just watch your opponent and react, keep them from approaching. When you're on the sides, it's not as bad as you'd think. Pretty much everything you do can become relatively safe when you're on the treadmills, because the treadmill carries you away during your lag. You can even approach with f-air if you want, but that's still stupid. Running up and down-bing is good, so is running up and giant punching. If you want, you can up-b through the middle and make it to the opposite treadmill for safety if it doesn't work out.

Ice- Simply, don't move much. We're already huge enough to reach our opponent mostly wherever they are. It'll be harder for the opponent to get in your range if you stay still. Air game isn't effected by the ice, so feel free to use that normally. Oh, and down-b is awesome here too. When your opponent starts moving in a direction, they pretty much have to commit to that, so you can punish that with down-b.

Flying- Stay grounded! DK's fallspeed is actually pretty lame. Obviously down-b is great here, since they can't punish it by jumping generally, they'd jump up too high and you could stop in time. If you're fighting someone with less fallspeed than you, you can try and jump and juggle them or hit them and you'll be alright generally. If you're fighting someone with more fallspeed than you, never jump unless you're sure you'll hit them. Just try and stay on the ground and punish their landing, you're big and scary. They'll make a mistake generally, like airdodging too early.

Characters you shouldn't take to PS2: MK, GW, Marth, ZSS, Fox. Should be mostly obvious why.
Characters you should take to PS2: Olimar(every stage messes up his pikmin, they get lost/disconnected), Ice Climbers(Nana is dumber than pikmin, transforming stages break grabs), Luigi(Ice, air, and electric RUIN him).
For everyone else, the most important thing is personal experience. If you're facing someone who doesn't know this stage, and you know how to play the stage, you might want to think about taking him here. Just play the stage a lot, it'll come to you eventually.

Edit: PFFFT just read that this is the "Simple Questions & Answers Thread". Short version: Use down-b a lot, be experienced at it.
 

-LzR-

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Yeah, Skin is pretty good.
Just don't get nervous. Its just a game and all. The around 15 euros really won't matter that much in your wallet, and you get grat fun with it, no reason to get nervous.
It's 50 euros and that really matters on your pocket.
 
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