Skill: Let us define the word!

[SAID!]

When talking about any competitive game skill is taking into account and it seems to me that a lot of people may not have the same definition of "skill". This to me seems like it would be harder to discuss tactics if the word skill is not defined in terms we can all agree upon.

I'll give my best definition of skill while playing brawl and anyone who wants can refute it to the best of their ability. The goal of this post is to get to a definition of skill we can all agree upon.

All right since Brawl can be played in many different ways I will define skill as it pertains to standard tournament play. Which is to say anything allowed in tournaments as in characters moves items etc etc.

Skill: In super smash bros. Brawl skill is determined by the ability for someone to time an attack so that it will land before the opponent can land an attack. Ultimately since this game is about bringing your opponents stock to 0 one must either trick their opponent to SD or must hit them enough times to be able to get rid of a stock etc etc. Skill can also be defined as superior timing or rather a mix of judgment knowing what attacks cause the most recovery lag and what attacks you have that have the shortest start up time this of course still brings me back to my first statement.

If anyone else has a better definition please state it and give reason. Also if anyone finds something to be wrong with my definition and needs correcting please say something and I will either argue my point or correct it.

 

[Yuna]

1. the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well: Carpentry was one of his many skills.
2. competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity: The dancers performed with skill.

Lock?

 

[PeeP]

Yuna, we don't care what dictionary.com has to say. The OP wants a definition that applies to BRAWL not life, and s/he wants it to come from you.

I think skill in Brawl is the ability to space and predict and mindgame in a way that is ultimately more effective than the spacing, mindgames, and prediction of your oponnent.

I think a player who had perfect skill would not be hit, because they would space and punish perfectly.

 

[Nixernator]

If you have enough mindgame skill I doubt you'd even need to have the best spacing. I think that in Brawl skill is more spacing at the start and then slowly becomes far more about your mindgaming ability, of baiting, punishing and faking.

 

[Yuna]

I think skill in Brawl is the ability to space and predict and mindgame in a way that is ultimately more effective than the spacing, mindgames, and prediction of your oponnent.

This is true for pretty much every single Competitive fighting game in the world. It is the very definition of "skill", i.e. the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well when it comes to fighting games.

 

[SAID!]

I think we can all agree that the goal of a competitive brawl match is to eliminate your opponent before your opponent eliminates you. If we are all agreed on that then we can all say that skill is determined by how well you can stop your opponent from eliminating you before you eliminate them. More specifically this equates to being able to hit them before they hit you.

We can also include the definition to say: By use of superior mind games, timing, spacing and other tactics, a player will be able to eliminate another player first.

To be honest though I think the most simplified version that pertains to brawl and just about any game is the one I said in the OP.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Skill(Brawl) - A measure of a player's ability to read and outplay an opponent to obtain victory.

 

[Dynomite]

Skill- a noun meaning the use of Metaknite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50S5pS0Frbs

 

[Timbers]

Even when speaking in the sense of competitive gaming, Yuna's (dictionary.com) definition is still dead on. I'm not sure what else you can possibly do except take that definition and twist it into a different phrase that describes the same thing.

 

[SAID!]

yeah I guess so. haha well then maybe that should be stickyied so at least there is a definition everyone can readily access on these forums that we all agree on =P

 

[Yuna]

yeah I guess so. haha well then maybe that should be stickyied so at least there is a definition everyone can readily access on these forums that we all agree on =P

It doesn't need stickying because it doesn't really take a rocket scientist to figure out what "skill" in Smash means if they just sit down for a few minutes to think about it.

Not everything needs to be stickied. We don't need the entire first page filled with stickied threads.

 

[Ulevo]

This thread has been answered. Yuna hit the nail on the head. Further discussion isn't really needed.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Skill:

1. Winning

I may lock this if the discussion stagnates from here.

 

[SinkingHigher]

Skill is a measure of one's mastery of gameplay fundamentals with complete disregard for tier placement, stages, or any other such secondary factor.

Said fundamentals include but are not limited to:

Spacing
Agility
Timing
(To some extent) Hand-eye co-ordination.
Understanding of Brawl "physics"
etc...

 

[OmegaXF]

Skill(Brawl) - A measure of a player's ability to read and outplay an opponent to obtain victory.

 

[Brave Hippo]

Skill: The ability to Pick C. Falcon and place 1st in major tourneys.

I am not even kidding.

 

[MyCurse4Life]

Yuna, we don't care what dictionary.com has to say. The OP wants a definition that applies to BRAWL not life, and s/he wants it to come from you.

I think skill in Brawl is the ability to space and predict and mindgame in a way that is ultimately more effective than the spacing, mindgames, and prediction of your oponnent.

I think a player who had perfect skill would not be hit, because they would space and punish perfectly.

Oh I get the reason of this thread now.....

 

[PK-ow!]

Skill:

1. Winning

I may lock this if the discussion stagnates from here.

This is a good approach, actually.

Start with something simple, then gradually complicate it to deal with the cases where it breaks down, until you don't need to anymore.

I'll go second:

"Winning" can't be skill because then people who win due primarily to random chance would count as skill.
Also of course there's a type-matching problem, which would be good to clear up now. Skill is something a player has more or less of. Skill is also a 'comparator' of two players. It may have to vary with context and time of application, but it is a comparator, not a gerund.

So, I'll say

Skill is a totally-ordered* value such that higher skill players "win more," "in the long run."

This roughs out the effect of random chance, but is vague.
Anyone else?


*a total ordering (with respect to some comparison relation) is an ordering of elements of some type such that every element can be compared to every element.

 

[MBreeto]

The ability to read, and adapt to situations in a favorable way. That would be my definition, because i think reading your opponent is the most important aspect of playing well

 

[:mad:]

I'd say skill is almost nonexistant.

 

[Blad01]

Pk-Ow :

Skill in Brawl is Winning in a competitive environment.

The more you win, more you have skill.

 

[Eddie G]

What I have and all of you don't.

Just kidding, <3 you all.

Honestly, skill may be just one of those topics that are defined as an individual sees it. A good comparison would be the old saying "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder".

 

[itsthebigfoot]

skill = ability to do well

so whoever hits the other guy the most while getting hit the least is the most skilled

 

[SKnickers03]

Pk-Ow :

Skill in Brawl is Winning in a competitive environment.

doesn't this def. and the others posted that are similar to it describe what should be considered a slang definition of the word. as in "kobe bryant's got mad skills"

skill is something thats measured, meaning someone could have incredible skill eg, kobe bryant, and others have terrible skill eg. anyone other than kobe bryant (obviously an exaggeration)

so technically everyone has "skill" i guess the differentiation comes in determining what kind of skill you have whether it be exemplary or horrible.

 

[OmegaXF]

Wow, people are going in detail about this. This is......just not kosher....

 

[Sliq]

The ability to be at an extreme disadvantage on your opponent's counterpick, essentially fighting 1 worthwhile match.

 

[Natch]

Ctrl+F "Don't get hit."
ERROR 404
ITEM NOT FOUND

 

[IxxI]

To me brawl is just a faced paced game of chess. Outplaying, and reading your opponents mind. Melee was just better. '-'

 

[PK-ow!]

Pk-Ow :

Skill in Brawl is Winning in a competitive environment.

The more you win, more you have skill.

This looks good too, except it has the type problem again - under this definition, skill is something I do. "He skill in tournaments the world over." and "What competitors are trying to get to is a point where they are skill." and "That guy thinks he's good but he is not skill."

The part of speech is just wrong.

And of course, it's relying on 'competitive'. So the definition defers to the meaning of competitive. This is okay if we know what competitive is and we're sure we need no more qualifications. I think we know what competitive is, but we would have to watch out that times, when the meaning of 'competitive' depends on context or other things, are correctly tracked by our definition of skill.

Finally, something to note is your line says that skill is determined on a game-by-game basis. A player's skill can be different at different times, and in particular, is only evaluable *when* he is in a competitive environment. My skill, right now, is undefined, unless you want to say I am "not skill" simply because I am not playing this instant.

The ability to be at an extreme disadvantage on your opponent's counterpick, essentially fighting 1 worthwhile match.

"The ability to be"? I don't understand. Anyone who can win one of the games can be at an extreme disadvantage on the opponent's counterpick. He just picks a terrible character - terrible on the CP stage against the character the player chose the first game.

Ctrl+F "Don't get hit."
ERROR 404
ITEM NOT FOUND

If this is the definition, then only some people have skill, and none of them have more skill than others.
And by 'some people', I mean no one, since everyone gets hit sometimes.

And if you want to say people who get hit less have more skill, I'm going to say I don't think you really want to say that, since for some characters in some instances, taking the hit still leads to victory, whereas an alternative would have reduced the chances of winning.
The definition has to accommodate something like the way the word is used, and it is just used for way more than 'don't get hit.'

Indeed, we are sure this is not the definition, because not getting hit is considered good advice because it is nontrivial. Don't get hit astounds people with simplicity because it is an observation - a noticed truth - what skilled people do. If skill meant don't get hit, then it would be a trivial association and would actually not be an insightful thing to say at all. "Don't jump into the ****" would not be a protip, it would be a reminder of the fact that "skill is a good thing."

 

[Pr0phetic]

@PK-ow: A person is only as good as their max potential. Hence why people have a range, and some people say "he's done way better." Their maximum skill is what is counted.

 

[PK-ow!]

@PK-ow: A person is only as good as their max potential. Hence why people have a range, and some people say "he's done way better." Their maximum skill is what is counted.

... I'm sorry, I'm not able to see where what I said leads into this point.

This is always hard to say - I'm not trying to be an *** or make your point go away; I really, honestly just don't know how your statement connects to my own, whether you're contradicting it, supplementing it, or otherwise.

There are two possibilities. One, I'm incredibly dense and have lost all track of what we're talking about. Two, you have misunderstood my statements and have committed an unwitting non sequitur - a statement that does not deal with the issue as it was being discussed prior at all.

... See? The preceding looks extremely haughty, but I swear there's no way to point it out and look any nicer doing so. But pointing it out is necessary because a disconnect like a non sequitur has to be called out as such.

So... the question is... "What?"

 

[Vanst]

Skill-is the developed mindset to do your best in every situation and to have the determination of wanting to succeed.

 

[XienZo]

Skill-the ability to optimize both the chances of success in certain situations and the chances of the situations occuring.

 

[ExCeL 52]

1. the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well: Carpentry was one of his many skills.
2. competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity: The dancers performed with skill.

Lock?

Wow, I think im agreeing with Yuna on this one.