Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword SPOILERS Thread (SPOILERS I TELL YA)

[Orboknown]

why would they be mad at you for that?

 

[Spire]

Everyone on the last forum killed me after I posted this. Do I mind? Not at all.

Who shot you down for this? Was it Zelda Dungeon? Zelda Universe? Zelda Informer? Any of the other elitist Zelda sites?

I find it very difficult to stay active on those forums. I've tried, but there are just too many purists/theorist ******s that will take any chance to nip at you. Pretty discouraging actually.

Anyways, I could be totally wrong in my presumption and look like an *** myself for criticizing those sites.

As for what Aonuma said—bring it on! Let's go motion controls, they're only going to get BETTER.

 

[ParaChomp]

Who shot you down for this? Was it Zelda Dungeon? Zelda Universe? Zelda Informer? Any of the other elitist Zelda sites?

I find it very difficult to stay active on those forums. I've tried, but there are just too many purists/theorist ******s that will take any chance to nip at you. Pretty discouraging actually.

Anyways, I could be totally wrong in my presumption and look like an *** myself for criticizing those sites.

As for what Aonuma said—bring it on! Let's go motion controls, they're only going to get BETTER.

Agreed and it was a Pokemon forum that shot me down but then 2 people brought me up.

why would they be mad at you for that?

Nunchuck in your left hand for the shield, Wii-mote in the right hand for the sword. Link is right-handed along with the nostalgia of traditional controls.

I honestly don't care what hand Link uses. As for the need to make him left-handed, they'll make him left-handed in games for the 3DS and Virtual Console alongside future spin-off instalments he stars in (like the upcoming Super Smash Bros. instalments for the Wii U and 3DS).

With Super Smash Bros. in mind, I wonder if they'll change his move-set based on some of the items from Skyward Sword. This is off-topic though, nor do I think it should be discussed.

 

[Spire]

Ahaha, talking Zelda on a forum about a game that never really changes. Pokémon fans are scary.

I'll allow Smash Bros. 4 discussion here, so long as it's Zelda-related.

 

[Problem2]

Talking about the time traveling that was being discussed in the no spoilers thread, Skyward Sword is weird because they use a different logic for time travel than Ocarina of Time. Ocarina of Time uses the logic that when you go back in time, you create a branch in time from the point you interfered.

Skyward Sword kind of uses the logic that the events in time are pretty much predetermined and going back in time was part of the grand scheme of the timeline to begin with. It's very inconsistent though. From the very first time you go to the Sealed Temple, you can peak through the door behind Impa and you can even see the crystal Zelda seals herself in later in the game (how cool is that?!). But then if Demise is unsealed from that stake in the ground in the past, why is he sealed in the same stake in the present? That's the confusing part about the Zelda timeline, and I don't see a way anyone can explain this other than realizing "Nintendo didn't care enough about the continuity".

 

[MechaWave]

This game is not ****ing Professor Layton.

 

[MuraRengan]

Talking about the time traveling that was being discussed in the no spoilers thread, Skyward Sword is weird because they use a different logic for time travel than Ocarina of Time. Ocarina of Time uses the logic that when you go back in time, you create a branch in time from the point you interfered.

Skyward Sword kind of uses the logic that the events in time are pretty much predetermined and going back in time was part of the grand scheme of the timeline to begin with. It's very inconsistent though. From the very first time you go to the Sealed Temple, you can peak through the door behind Impa and you can even see the crystal Zelda seals herself in later in the game (how cool is that?!). But then if Demise is unsealed from that stake in the ground in the past, why is he sealed in the same stake in the present? That's the confusing part about the Zelda timeline, and I don't see a way anyone can explain this other than realizing "Nintendo didn't care enough about the continuity".

Time travel never works out very well in Zelda. Hell, the events of SS could cause ANOTHER timeline split.

 

[Problem2]

we're all preaching to the choir here.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Time travel never works out very well in Zelda. Hell, the events of SS could cause ANOTHER timeline split.

Not to mention the huge plot hole. When we plant the tree of life in the past, it changes the future by having a fully grown tree. When Demise challenges us to a battle in the past, we can travel to the future and nothing has changed at all. Are we meant to assume that Demise was sealed for so long that the hundreds of years between the past and present in Skyward Sword was but a moment to Demise? It's really irritating.

I'll reply to all the stuff about the gameplay and design later; get to write a term paper now oh joy oh joy!

 

[etecoon]

time travel almost never works cleanly in any work of fiction I've seen, there's almost always paradoxes and plot holes caused by it, it's a lot to account for.

 

[ZIO]

Not to mention the huge plot hole. When we plant the tree of life in the past, it changes the future by having a fully grown tree. When Demise challenges us to a battle in the past, we can travel to the future and nothing has changed at all. Are we meant to assume that Demise was sealed for so long that the hundreds of years between the past and present in Skyward Sword was but a moment to Demise? It's really irritating.

I'll reply to all the stuff about the gameplay and design later; get to write a term paper now oh joy oh joy!

In time travelling perspective, we are to assume we won that battle BECAUSE the present remains the same as you return to it.

The tree is a minor thing, though. It's true that if we were to have done it in the past, it should have really already been there. But, it's nothing to really worry about over the grand scheme of things. Even as you speak to Groose in front of the tree, he speaks of it as if it has been there for so long already.


I wanted to note something about the Timeshift stones. I remember during the Sand Sea portion and the captain. He was very aware of the situation and knew what was going on around him. We weren't in a pocket of time, then. I feel that these stones bring the their surrounding areas back to a state of being from the past. Not that you necessarily are existing in the past. It's the only explanation I can come up with as to why the Captain sees the Pirate's keep in its current day form and makes a comment on it. If it were that these stones had us exist in the past, then to him, he would be seeing the pirate's keep in his day.

The only thing I could think of that would debunk this would be the emergence of life under the influence of these stones, such as enemies, or even the dragon in Lanayru.

 

[etecoon]

I saw this and immediately thought back to this

DBZ spoilers

Spoiler

"Also, Timeline 4 should be 1, as I guess it is the original timeline. which in turn creates timeline 2 which we never see. When Trunks leaving from 1 leaves timeline 2, Cell steals the machine, creating timeline 3. Or maybe both of the futures should be 1 and 2 respectively, (not mattering which is which, since I am not sure you can know for sure, they are identical till Trunks returns) and then 3 and 4 would be the altered timelines created by things from 1 and 2 respectively."

time travel is almost always a messy subject, sometimes it's better to just let the little things go.

 

[Spire]

I had a dream last night that I was venturing around a futuristic Los Angeles with a timeshift stone in my pocket, constantly living within a circular realm of the past.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I had a dream last night that I was venturing around a futuristic Los Angeles with a timeshift stone in my pocket, constantly living within a circular realm of the past.

I wish I had dreams like you. o_o

 

[Spire]

It got pretty sexual from there, so it's fair to say last night rocked

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Oh man.

*high fives Spire*

 

[ZIO]

I just beat the game, finally. Took some time.

Some things will come to mind in time, but the one thing in the forefront of my memory is what Demise noted. His hatred for the gods, Hylia, and the spirit of the Hero.

That which binds the three by the thread of fate to clash when the moment asks of it. Who was this Spirit of the Hero to be chosen to clash with the incarnations of Demise? Hylia all makes sense as well as Demise and why these folks happen to have similar forms (Zeldas, Zeldas everywhere), but who was it that this Spirit is derived from?


There's other things that bug me, such as this elaborate plan to defeat Demise conjured up by Hylia. When she had the Triforce with her, could she not have wished for an end for Demise? Makes me question the extent of the Triforce's power. What has me even question it further is the method the Triforce took to destroy demise in the present.

Where did Hylia get her power?

meh

 

[Spire]

Gods cannot use the Triforce. Only mortals. The Triforce was designed to be used by those who actually had life to value.

 

[ZIO]

I don't think something that can die to be considered gods, but whatever. --By die, I mean, physically, not spiritually

If that's the case, Demise's need for the triforce is silly because he is a god himself and can't do anything with it.

 

[Spire]

I was paraphrasing what was said in-game.

Also, what? You don't think something that can die to be considered gods—where's an example of a god dying?

 

[Holder of the Heel]

This is a bit off topic, but I know the handheld Zeldas aren't all that popular. I bought Phantom Hourglasses ages ago... and I haven't touched it yet. Is it a good game and worth trying? Admittedly I'll start on it regardless of what is said but I'm curious.

And how about that Spirit Tracks?

 

[MuraRengan]

This is a bit off topic, but I know the handheld Zeldas aren't all that popular. I bought Phantom Hourglasses ages ago... and I haven't touched it yet. Is it a good game and worth trying? Admittedly I'll start on it regardless of what is said but I'm curious.

And how about that Spirit Tracks?

I had fun with it. It's no console Zelda, but it was fun. Most people don't like it though, but I'm at a point where I'll buy and play any Zelda just because it's Zelda.

 

[Spire]

I prefer Spirit Tracks over Phantom Hourglass solely because of a very obnoxious, repetitive element within the latter. ST follows a very, very similar formula, but has a charm and progression I'm honestly kind of nostalgic for. In fact, I could see myself replaying ST very soon.

In fact... wow, I think I need to play that game right now.

Edit: inb4 Luigitoilet

 

[ZIO]

What i was saying is that I don't consider something that can die physically to be a God, because I've been under the impression that Gods are immortal.

And being that Zelda in this game exists, Hylia had to have died. It's all really a moot point in the long run as the events took place as they did.

All of this reminds me of that very convoluted story of the Dissidia game.

 

[Spire]

Hylia didn't die, she used her divine powers to tear herself of her godhood in order to be reincarnated as a mortal. She could do that because she was a goddess.

She did not die, keep that in mind.

Ultimately though, lol, what's a god?

 

[ZIO]

What's a man?

Nothing but a.......

Nope, not doing it.


So as you said. Assuming she couldn't use it as a Goddess, I suppose it all makes sense, but then why have Link do all that work? If she was mortal herself, why couldn't have gone to take the Triforce herself after regaining her memories? Maybe to keep Demise sealed or something, i guess . . . but Link seemed to do good in keeping Demise at bay already.

Oh well. I'm done with that thought.

 

[Banjodorf]

Well I think it's time for me to finally post my thoughts on the game, since I recently finished it and have been avoiding this thread until then.

In general: I loved it; it was a great game, with an incredibly number of amazing ridiculous characters to add to the overwhelming number we already had. (Batreaux, Girahim, the fortune teller)

I loved SOME of the challenging aspects of it, and the story was magnificent. I also love the sheer number of things it set up for theory-crafters, and the Crimson Loftwing is my bro.

ALL OF THAT SAID:

- Motion controls. I hate them so much it's not even funny. The thing about adding motion controls, is the difficulty of the game at points shouldn't ever depend on the player's ability to actually perform the necessary actions. Or be slightly off (Like charging Levias' eyes. **** that.)

- Addendum! I also don't like the capitalization on the controls, where you had to swing a certain way to kill something. Zelda games have never depended on this in the past, and not having it wouldn't have made full motion any different. As a friend of mine put it "fighting shouldn't feel like a mini-game.

- Real-time item menus, not a fan. Just no. Changing items in real time is cool and all, but I much prefer it when there isn't a possibility of a boss munching my face off while I fight the motion controls to select the damn bow.

- Playing SS made me realize just how much I liked Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess for their darker, more serious storyline and atmosphere. SS certainly had those elements (Demise, holy crap, and Girahim + his stuff) but in general lacked the atmosphere that drew me to TP and MM so much. OoT as well.

- Fi, when compared to Midna, Tatl or even Navi was a very lacking companion. I recognize that her stringent, calculating nature was meant to be a foil to Girahim's flamboyance and arrogance, but still, she lacked so much personality. The whole time I just thought "I wub woo, Midna, come back!"

- I realized about halfway through I wasn't a fan of the art direction compared to, again, that of TP. Sure there's the argument that TP was full of darker colors, but by that token, SS was full of so much color to match the atmosphere they were going for, just like TP was, and I just prefer the darker, more realistic look.

- In terms of dungeons, I still found myself looking at MM and TP for their dungeon design, which I found alot more inspiring. (I WILL say that Skyward Sword had some challenging dungeons, and I love Ancient Cistern, it was amazing. Same for the Mining Facility, although I cleared that one with a hangover, so my memories aren't all fond.)

But I felt like these dungeons lacked the variety the preceeding games had with their dungeons. (SS had 6 major dungeons, 2 of each element/environment), TP and MM and OoT had all different dungeons with different elements and themes and such.


- The shield durability system - WHY? Why did they do that? Why was it necessary? Was it just to punish me for being terrible at timing the shield bash? I'm REAL glad I could get the Hylian Shield before fighting Girahim that one last time, or that would have been some terrible ***. I just don't think it was necessary.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


All of that negative nit-picky whatever aside, I found the characters to be really enjoyable. Whenever Girahim's music started I would silently go "Oh **** yes!" and wait for awesome things to happen. The mystery surrounding the Sheikah was made even stronger in this one, and I freakin' love all the characters.

Especially the Mogmas. I use the word hoss all the time, and when the one in the Fire Sanctuary called me hoss, I nearly **** myself laughing.

Now that that's all out of the way, I can happily join in theorycrafting discussion. Woohoo!

 

[Orboknown]

I was paraphrasing what was said in-game.

Also, what? You don't think something that can die to be considered gods—where's an example of a god dying?

Norse mythology. I think it was baldor that was killed by locke,starting ragnarok.

 

[Spire]

@gannondorf4ever - nice read, and wow dude, it's good to see around still. I recall our interactions ca. Brawl's release, typically around the early SSB4 discussion.

@Orboknown - heh, well I was asking for an example within the Zelda universe but hell, anyone want to start comparing Hyrulean mythology to real-world mythology?

 

[Orboknown]

eh.was jusr reading the thread and noticed that. im game for anything.

 

[etecoon]

- Real-time item menus, not a fan. Just no. Changing items in real time is cool and all, but I much prefer it when there isn't a possibility of a boss munching my face off while I fight the motion controls to select the damn bow.

it didn't bother me very often so I pretty much forgot but damn this is true, really would've been better off using sensor bar point and click for this function as well

I need to rehack my wii so I can use the text speed codes, I'm literally finding this game unplayable on replay. SS has simultaneously reminded me of everything that made LTTP, LA, OoT, and MM so amazing while also managing to exacerbate almost all of WW and TP's missteps, I've never had a more split opinion of a game where I really WANT to be in love with it but it's just too flawed and constantly gives me reason to be frustrated with it. mostly forgiveable on the first playthrough but I can't play it again vanilla :/

 

[LLDL]

time travel almost never works cleanly in any work of fiction I've seen, there's almost always paradoxes and plot holes caused by it, it's a lot to account for.

hmm EXCEPT IN PRISONER OF AZKABAN!!

 

[Spire]

I'm surprised that after five years of development, they deliver a game that has met criticism rooted in actual gameplay concerns. Twilight Princess's main criticisms came from the difficulty level and the abundance of items, while it was otherwise a fantastic Zelda game.

Skyward Sword is more and more deserving of an 8/10 imo. Knowing the history of the franchise, it could have been SO MUCH MORE. I miss my hidden caves, I miss my means of actual exploration. Too much guidance. Fi didn't help. I'm fond of this game, but it's not as memorable. I feel it will ultimately serve as a transitional title for Zelda Wii U, introducing elements that will be further built upon (perfected?) within the next game. It was very much a test.

 

[LLDL]

I feel the same way. And also, when did they introduce the gossip stones that help you? I have never used one. But I was pissed off when they put it in ocarina of time DS (I feel everyone should figure everything out with no help, that's the point of playing a zelda game is figuring out puzzles and your next objective), and also angry when I saw they were still in Skyward sword. Then when I was playing it in the game room of my college, some kid said they've always been in zelda games. When I tried to argue, he said it was in all the DS games and some game boy advanced games....the zelda games which I've dismissed.

 

[Spire]

Gossip Stones originated in Ocarina of Time 64.

 

[etecoon]

the problem with TP to me is that it's too average, it doesn't do too much seriously wrong like SS does but it doesn't have the highs for me either. the whole feel of it to me is just "eh, it's typical of a zelda game" where SS to me is like "THIS IS GREA-WHAT THE **** FI!?", just this constant pendulum of greatness to terrible

can't say I share the praise for TP's visuals, I think SS and MM are my favorites in the series in that area, only problem with SS is sometimes the character models but I think the environmental art is fantastic. to me I don't think it's as much about dark vs bright but more about color and contrast vs homogeneous and washed out. MM is dark and yet it is very colorful at the same time, I prefer that compared to how TP went about it

 

[Orboknown]

I feel the same way. And also, when did they introduce the gossip stones that help you? I have never used one. But I was pissed off when they put it in ocarina of time DS (I feel everyone should figure everything out with no help, that's the point of playing a zelda game is figuring out puzzles and your next objective), and also angry when I saw they were still in Skyward sword. Then when I was playing it in the game room of my college, some kid said they've always been in zelda games. When I tried to argue, he said it was in all the DS games and some game boy advanced games....the zelda games which I've dismissed.

the first gossip stone showing you the actualm cutscene was oot3ds i believe. but the gossip stones themselves have been there awhile.

 

[Spire]

Majora's Mask was visually reminiscent of nightmares. It was nauseating and unnatural in a multitude of ways (not like any Zelda game is actually realistic).

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I though the real-time item system was really good, it is more realistic (I know not much is realistic anyhow, but one less addition to that is nice). It isn't like Link freezes time to fish through his magical bottomless pockets, despite being the Hero of Time. He just doesn't.

Also, I agree, Twilight Princess, as I may have said before, was just a Super Zelda game, everything typical of a Zelda game was taken and amplified by 100. Link's capability, the exploration, the amount of dungeons (this lessened the quality for me), the fight with Ganondof (now THAT was good, Demise should have been like that), amount of items (which although all of them almost seemed useless in any battle situation and were purely puzzle-oriented, Skyward Sword also felt that way with even less items. The whip, bellows, mitts, the earrings, the scale, they all seemed useless to me outside of story progression). It was great for these reasons, but also not too much because of it as well. Skyward Sword may or may not have more issues, but it did more interesting things.

 

[LLDL]

the first gossip stone showing you the actualm cutscene was oot3ds i believe. but the gossip stones themselves have been there awhile.

Yeah i know they've been there, just wanted to make sure that they didn't actually help you until ocarina 3ds. Phew. I can tell it's going to be a regular addition though :<