Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!

[Deleted member]

Zelda most likely, yoshi is a slight possibility, but side b isnt that good for getting past campers.

 

[Popertop]

Marth is much much much faster and more mobile than Bowser, able to close distances much easier than Bowser. He seems honestly to have much more luck than Bowser against campers. Peach has the same mobility advantage, and her ducking allows her to avoid some projectiles, while her floating, turnips, and all around mobility allow her to spam back if need be. Bowser, however, is NOT able to counter spam anyone at all unless either their projectile sucks or they're REALLY REALLY REALLY bad at camping. I know very well that a good Bowser can get around camping, but due to Bowser's immense size (even when crawling, wtf?), very low mobility, immense size, relatively slow-to-come-out projectile for its distance, Bowser as a character is extremely easy to camp when compared to others. Also, Bowser eats fast characters with low range for snacktime. Even when infinite jumping, Bowser's still a gigantic target and is somewhat vulnerable during the rise or something if I remember correctly.

Don't get me wrong, I love using Bowser, but while he might fit this somewhat well, he doesn't fit it AS well as Link or Samus.

Thank you for that nicely put together rebuttal.
Much appreich.

 

[Popertop]

Also I dont like the first sentence: ''This character has a difficult learning curve as spacing is essential''

To me, good spacing has nothing to do with the character... you need to have it no matter what

True, but some character suffer far more from bad spacing than others.

 

[Hylian]

This really seems like Samus.

I really hope this is Samus.

 

[Germanydabassist]

I think it's either Zelda or Lucas.
Zelda has a side B that is faster than most campers, and the side smash MIGHT have a disjointed hitbox (not sure), so spacing might be vital. She probably couldn't stand up to the faster characters, because of the laggy attacks. Not sure, though... she has high priority with attacks.
Lucas' neutral B is also a fast coming attack. with proper spacing, his PK attacks can reach much farther than most people expect. However, his stronger attacks, down and up smash, are very slow and would be killed by a fast character.

 

[Talvi]

Next one may be Samus or Link.

 

[Browny]

This character has a difficult learning curve as spacing is essential. This character can stop most campy characters from camping, spams all over slow characters, but is still too slow to do anything to a fast character. There is no doubt this underplayed character can become amazing in the future, but a few glaring weaknesses will probably prevent this character from ever reaching some of the higher tiers.

omg its liek totally ness

not sure too about spacing, since that applied to everyone...

he can float around and absorb projectiles, very difficult to camp him for anyone not names Link/TL

pkT and pk fire are just so amazingly spammable against slow guys, especially thunder. but ness just cant escape fast people long enough to get things like pk fire, pk thunder to hit.

hes definitely underplayed, but his gimpable recovery and lame CG by marth wont let him get high tier.

 

[Rampage]

Zelda for sure...

 

[betterthanbonds9]

O_o Ganondorf

wait, he was serious.....what?

lucario or zelda...... zelda pwns campers...

ZELDA

 

[Kitamerby]

This really seems like Samus.

I really hope this is Samus.

No you don't. We want Samus top tier. D:

This is the second and last time I'm going to say this. LETS TALK ABOUT GANNONDORF INSTEAD OF WHO WE THINK WILL BE THE NEXT CHARACTER. We're not doing a spec of good this way.

But this is fuuuuuuuuuun~.

 

[Mr.Trite]

Ike lolol.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Holy crap lol at update 8. Love it. Had no idea they would do him so soon.

I say Zelda.

Spacing is everything, especially landing F-airs.

Naryu's love stops campers

Din's Fire spam, uh yeah.

Also she does really badly against people who can quickly pressure her.

I'd also guess Olimar, who is played less than Zelda, but who knows. The hints have gotten harder lol.

The problem is, with Zelda, she's already set for high tier , olimar is the same. Both have too many advantageous match-ups for them to be prevented from reaching high tiers, weaknesses and al.

Take a look at Zelda's match-up chart, fast characters aren't her weakness at all. Same story with olimar.

No, this is Link.

 

[Popertop]

omg its liek totally ness

not sure too about spacing, since that applied to everyone...

he can float around and absorb projectiles, very difficult to camp him for anyone not names Link/TL

pkT and pk fire are just so amazingly spammable against slow guys, especially thunder. but ness just cant escape fast people long enough to get things like pk fire, pk thunder to hit.

hes definitely underplayed, but his gimpable recovery and lame CG by marth wont let him get high tier.

Well now, looks like we can consider Ness...
except for the spacing part.
It seems to me what they mean is spacing is vital to this character.
Some don't have to worry about it as much as others do.
I would know though, I don't play Ness.

 

[Popertop]

O_o Ganondorf

wait, he was serious.....what?

lucario or zelda...... zelda pwns campers...

ZELDA

Not Lucario.
Ewe 4got tha prt ab00t tha fas7r char46

 

[PK-ow!]

Ganon for "devastating aerial game" took me completely by surprise, but despite this indication that the SBR's diction is so dissimilar to my own, I will again chance to pronounce on the hint.

#9 = Samus.

She's felt just like the description to me. You can definitely pwn the slow guys, specifically with projectile spam, and you have all the tools to counter spam but a reflector (just look at Tudor pwn Pit, Rob, and G&W, certainly the most annoying spammers of the lot). Yet as always, the awkwardness makes you very vulnerable to truly fast characters. Spacing is super important to manage all the missiles and grapple, and the new bomb, and... pretty much everything.

And learning curve consists in this very difficulty.

It's anyone's guess what in particular convinced the author of this week's hint to call yet another character underplayed and potent; and I'm curious to know what Samus' specific weakness is, if Kyari was talking about Samus.

*~*~*~
Bonus section: This can't be Ness. He could never be described in relation to speed the way #9 is, and he certainly doesn't fit the bill on spam.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I'm surprised that the backroom thinks Ganondorf is actually good. I play him a lot, and I think he's the worst character in the game and haven't changed my mind on that since the game came out. He has no answers to camping. Camp him and play defensive. He can't approach.

Nobody said that he's actually good relative to any other characters. However, he does have useful techniques, and can kill quickly given the chance. I don't see the backroom suggesting him as a top tier character, but it was his turn to be discussed, and he DOES have pros.... just a lot more cons.

 

[Renufus]

He's also got a lot more potential them people give him. However, he lacks a gigantic glaring weakness other then speed (which isn't very big of a weakness).

You mean besides his sucktastic recovery and gimpability?

Speed is an issue when your recovery is that bad. When you get punished on a laggy attack (which for Link is a lot of things) and you can't make it back to the stage, I'd say that's a pretty big glaring weakness.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

#9 is either dedede, link, or zelda

 

[icewolf2249]

I completely agree on Ganondorf. Top tier? Definitely not. But higher than people give credit for. He's deceptively better than he looks. My friend started using him for the lulz, but then realized he actually has a potential air game. Definitely a WTF?! moment, but I digress.

 

[J0™]

I'm guessing Yoshi for #9

 

[Doodx]

i think he said UNDERPLAYED so its not DDD
i dont think its zelda even though it could be
i would actualy think link
he pwns spammers
he is not too fast but pwns slow chars
he is very underplayed in my opinion
his wealness could be recovery because its pretty easy to destroy and spacing is used alot with him

 

[Hylian]

Samus's glaring weakness would obviously be her lack of a kill move.

 

[Kitamerby]

Samus's glaring weakness would obviously be her lack of a kill move.

...She HAS them. They just aren't guaranteed to work until 130%. <.<

 

[Stormblast]

#9 could be ZSS

 

[Falcon...Puuunch!]

This thread is for the discussion of who the next update will be, not for discussing the current character. That's why there are links to the threads where you can discuss each Character currently covered by the SBR.

IDK who the #9 character could be, it's a little too vague for me to give an educated guess. I suppose it could be DDD but the hint doesn't really encompass him very much.

Woop, my bad, I guess I didn't bother to read the whole first post. O_o. Continue.

 

[GhettoSheep]

I'm voting for link,

He's underplayed, spams the hell out of slower characters, and always gets punished by faster characters, thus the high learning curve. Also, his recovery is balls, a glaring weakness since SSB64.

There is no way it can be zelda or ddd, remember hes not ever going to be in the higher tiers with the likes of mk, falco, marth, snake, d3 etc...

Also, look at Kyari's avatar and take a wild guess as to which character thread he was posting in...

 

[Aeothera]

Thank you for appreciating Ganondorf in all his glory! And the next one is most definitely Link.

 

[Zindura]

I'm pretty amazed Ganon's over-B wasn't even mentioned. It leads me to think that he wasn't really discussed in-depth.

Anyways, Link sounds the man for #9. I'm starting to get discouraged, though, since I haven't guessed correctly once. The hints are very general and very vague.

 

[manhunter098]

There are two parts of this extremely vague hint that help to narrow down the possibilities significantly.

First: Spacing is essential.
Second: Too slow to do anything to a fast character.

These two hints are critical because they are the most objective. Its obvious exactly what characters rely a great deal on spacing, and its obvious what characters are rather slow in both attack speed and running speed as well. The list I have come up with only takes these two factors into consideration.


Bowser
Ike
DDD
Link
Pokemon Trainer (Charizard)

In my opinion, I feel that only these 5 characters fit the two most objective criteria we have been given in this hint. Next we go and look at who on this list isnt underplayed. I think that Ike can be kicked off this list with no questions asked, and DDD with very few qualms as well. Charizard might be able to be removed, since Pokemon Trainer is a relatively well used character, if only because he contains 3 different play styles in one, but I still feel that of Pokemon Trainer's arsenal, Charizard is the least used, and I think that in terms of character analysis, that each Pokemon will be counted as something of a seperate chracter, though less so than Zelda/Sheik.


So now the list has:

Bowser
Link
Pokemon Trainer (Charizard)


Now what chracters left on this list can really spam much of anything...and the answer comes down to Link, who is the only one on this list with with a projectile that can really be spammed.



So yeah, I think Link.

 

[Blue sHell]

It was Ganon? Is this an April Fools Joke? O_o

Jk. Lol, I'm also surprised absolutely no one guessed him. I think even the people giving the hints would agree Wario also fit the hints very well.

Ganon's tech chase game is scary as hell. Dairing a grounded opponent is practically a free fsmash if you guess right, or crap another dair if you want. SideB makes opponents wary of playing too defensive, but on the otherhand if you don't play a little defensive vs a good ganondorf you'll just eat his powerful moves in the worst way possible. In my opinion a better recovery and a faster jab would of brought him over the top, but what could we do?

He kept his Uair spike(to an extent) and he still has his ridiculously delicious Dair spike. SideB is a tricky suidide, DownB in the air is a devestating and surprising killer(safe as long as you space yourself not to have the crazy landing lag).

If I had to guess where he'd be on a future tier list, I'd say he'd be one of the top low tiers. Take that with a grain of salt though, because we can't really place anyone anywhere on a tier list just yet. Even if ganon isn't the monster he was last game, and a large majority of ganon mains switched to DK, ganon is still sessy as always.

Sparta Kick. Enough said.

 

[BigRick]

There are two parts of this extremely vague hint that help to narrow down the possibilities significantly.

First: Spacing is essential.
Second: Too slow to do anything to a fast character.

These two hints are critical because they are the most objective. Its obvious exactly what characters rely a great deal on spacing, and its obvious what characters are rather slow in both attack speed and running speed as well. The list I have come up with only takes these two factors into consideration.


Bowser
Ike
DDD
Link
Pokemon Trainer (Charizard)

In my opinion, I feel that only these 5 characters fit the two most objective criteria we have been given in this hint. Next we go and look at who on this list isnt underplayed. I think that Ike can be kicked off this list with no questions asked, and DDD with very few qualms as well. Charizard might be able to be removed, since Pokemon Trainer is a relatively well used character, if only because he contains 3 different play styles in one, but I still feel that of Pokemon Trainer's arsenal, Charizard is the least used, and I think that in terms of character analysis, that each Pokemon will be counted as something of a seperate chracter, though less so than Zelda/Sheik.


So now the list has:

Bowser
Link
Pokemon Trainer (Charizard)


Now what chracters left on this list can really spam much of anything...and the answer comes down to Link, who is the only one on this list with with a projectile that can really be spammed.



So yeah, I think Link.

''spacing is essential'' is not objective at all... no matter what char you play you will always get ***** if you cant space properly

yes Link fit the characteristics but I wonder why ppl simply put Samus or Peach out of the equation... bias?

 

[ShadowLink84]

Link
10char

 

[ShadowLink84]

Not really. Some characters don't need to space as much as other characters.

MK sure does not need to space as much as Ike or Link.

 

[manhunter098]

I can agree, spacing is definitely important with every chracter, I suppose that saying the difficulty in learning to space with that character would have been the best way to put it, but importance does play some issue in it as well. For some chracters spacing takes serious practice since their attacks are slow or they have projectiles that travel in an arc. Slow (and punishable) attacks make spacing extremely important, since if you miss, you will get punished, with faster attacks you wont be punished as often for poor spacing, so for those chracters it is less essential to their game. The projectiles that travel in an arc mean you cant just shoot from anywhere, you have to be close enough to hit, but far enough away so that you are not right next to your opponent.



I dont list Samus or Peach mostly because I feel that they can deal with faster chracters. Samus can autocancel every aerial she has and Peach can float cancel. Furthermore Samu's projectiles lend themselves to be a bit better at limiting the movement of her opponents especially because of the seeker missiles, which while they arent really a threat, can disrupt an opponents approach quite well. And her bombs come out very quickly, so you can drop a couple and clear the area if you are getting pounded by attacks. Peach I suppose might fit, but I really still dont see her having as much trouble with faster chracters as Link does, after all she does have some relatively fast attacks with good knockback and priority.

 

[BigRick]

Ok I see your points.

However, I dont really agree with what you said about Samus not having too many problems with fast chars.

MK can simply run under neutral-B's and over B's like they're not there its not even funny.

 

[Talek]

Theres no doubt in my mind that this weeks character is Link.

Link has a high learning curve due to the fact that you need to learn how to use all of his projectiles in order to be effective with him. Spacing is also a key part in learning/playing Link due to the fact that not all of Link's moves aren't as fast as you would like them to be.

Link can also out camp many campers with his variety of projectiles at his disposal, not to mention his shield can block/cancel out most projectiles. The slower characters can be spamed all over because of there lack of running speed and the fact that Link is faster than most of the slow characters. Unfortunately for Link he is not fast enough to deal with faster characters which means that if he doesn't play smart he could get wrecked.

Link is a very underplayed character that can be a force to be reckon with in the right hands but as far as tier list go i don't see him being high tier due to many of his weaknesses such as his recovery, slow running speed, laggy attacks, etc.

Hopefully i'm right about this weeks character because it would suck if i posted all that only to be wrong lol

 

[manhunter098]

Ok I see your points.

However, I dont really agree with what you said about Samus not having too many problems with fast chars.

MK can simply run under neutral-B's and over B's like they're not there its not even funny.

Well thats why you mix up the missiles a bit. The slower speed of the seeker missiles makes them easier to avoid, but they disrupt the gameflow more making it harder for characters that rely on the momentum of a fight a lot.

 

[Doctor X]

Jk. Lol, I'm also surprised absolutely no one guessed him. I think even the people giving the hints would agree Wario also fit the hints very well.

I did. And Wario doesn't fit the hints seeing as none of his B-moves are really spammable with any amount of success. The bike is too important for his recovery and the others speak for themselves.

As for this week... I guess it might be Samus. Underplayed, lots of glaring weaknesses, can spam well enough, and needs spacing to use missile cancels and zairs effectively.

 

[JhMS]

Bah Im not sure between Link or Samus.
Well my guess is for....SAMAS(the announcer in funny XD)

 

[S2]

Well, Zelda fits most of the description, but I get the feeling it's not her.

Link seems like a pretty good guess though.