Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!

[ph00tbag]

Breaking my balls here ph00t.

I thought we already established you are a lady. If I'm breaking anything, it's your ovaries.

And the hilarity continues.

Why can't it be Zamus?

She has some pretty cool combos with that d-smash and some of her moves are very punishable unless she spaces really well.

Just saying.

Of course that logic applies to a few other characters as well.

What part of, "her shield pressure game sucks," slipped past you? I'm prepared to repeat it several times, in case you miss it again. Sure, she can pressure a shield as well as most, but there are very few who can't rival her pressure game, and many who outright surpass it, contrary to the hint.

Maybe you know something I don't, but I've always found it better to back out of shield pressure situations, because they never end well.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I dunno man, paralyzer shots and well spaced bairs are good for shield pressure.

But others do match her in shield pressure. And yeah some do surpass her, there is no arguing that.

 

[Timbers]

Wow. It's been a few pages, and still no one is bringing up Ivysaur again.

Seriously. Fits the description amazingly well in all aspects, no exceptions.

I honestly doubt SBR is going to break PT into three seperate discussions.

Because it's one character.

...

 

[Emblem Lord]

People think Ivy has good shield pressure?

Wait...what?

 

[theONEjanitor]

im guessin next character is lucario

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I honestly doubt SBR is going to break PT into three seperate discussions.

Because it's one character.

...

they split Zelda/Shiek even though they included shiek in the tip.

 

[Lotsa_Spaghetti]

this hint screams marth

 

[Yukiwarashi]

they split Zelda/Shiek even though they included shiek in the tip.

Mic 128 confirmed that the SBR will discuss PT as one character when the time comes.

 

[PwnyRide]

they split Zelda/Shiek even though they included shiek in the tip.

Neither Zelda nor Shiek are dependant on one another or FORCED (suffer disadvantages) to switch at any time whatsoever.

 

[Grunt]

People say Marth, but i have yet to see a Marth get easily punished.
"Almost all" of Marth's moves aren't easily punishable.

 

[jber4life]

Wicked, i have gotten 5 of the past 6. Lets see if we can make it better.

I have to go with the majority and guess Marth for Number 16

 

[kkkoala]

dk imo...

spacing: hes obviously insanely dependant on spacing
punishable: completely
good punisher: his smashes come out quick compared to their stregnth
sheild pressure: his Fb destroys sheilds and hes got good grabs
combos on certain chars: double bair>Ftilt works flawlessly at good %s on mid/big chars

the only thing he doesnt rly fit is the annoying part... cuz annoying to me says "a cajillion tiny hit-combos", not "get hit 10 times or more and u dies...

 

[Shears]

<->Yoshi<->

 

[kkkoala]

<->Yoshi<->

naw yoshis gonna b another joke hint... somein like "HES A DRAGUN BUT ALSO A DINOSAWR AND HE IS BREATH FIRES W/TEH ANGEL WINGES W/SUPAR SMASH SFEAR. HE IS TROW EGGS TO RECOVER, BUT HE IS TROWS THEM UP, HOW DAT WORC?" or if they say him itll at the very least say somin bout his recov, or like "ez gimp on his recov and he can ezmode gimp others' recovs"

 

[infomon]

Neither Zelda nor Shiek are dependant on one another or FORCED (suffer disadvantages) to switch at any time whatsoever.

Sheik always suffers a disadvantage for not switching to Zelda.

 

[Adapt]

I dunno man, paralyzer shots and well spaced bairs are good for shield pressure.

But others do match her in shield pressure. And yeah some do surpass her, there is no arguing that.

In my first post after this hint I mentioned that Zamus isn't great and shield punishing, a smart Marth will rarely get punished and Lucario's combos seem to work on everyone (better on some for sure, but they aren't really character specific)

None of them fit perfectly imo... I picked Zamus because that's who I want it to be.


Paralyzer is really slow... I guess you can use it once and then use other attacks. I do enjoy using paralyzer on shields and then timing a dashgrab but its very risky if you miss your timing. (you can punish spotdodges as well in the same manner, just different timing)
Dtilt can be used for poking shields, spaced bairs are good for pressuring shields, I agree, and dsmash can be used at it's very extent as well (closer and you get punished) but what else does she have?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Sheik always suffers a disadvantage for not switching to Zelda.

not true.... but, you're right, most times shiek could make use of Zelda's killing power.

 

[Browny]

At what times could Shiek possibly have an advantage over Zelda when it comes to KO power. Zeldas utilt is stronger than all of shieks KO moves lol

 

[Equus]

Okay, I'll try not to be biased here: it's probably Lucario

-If anybody wants to ever be good with Luc, they HAVE to master spacing.

-Many of his attacks are somewhat laggy, and even though they have weird disjointed hitboxes, some of said hitboxes are kinda narrow, so he's easy to punish.

-Most of his attacks are suitable for punishing his opponents.

-Dair and Ftilt are great for shield pressure.

-A/A/Force Palm chain grab, Dthrow/Fair/Fair, etc.

Could anybody explain again why it could be Zamus? I'm curious.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Could anybody explain again why it could be Zamus? I'm curious.

Read the last 3 pages.

 

[Browny]

what...
narrow hitboxes? lucario is the master of non-linear hitboxes. utilt, fsmash, usmash and all his aerials have crazy huge hitboxes that either cover his entire body or extend huge arcs to protect him.

his laggy attacks are usmash, dsmash, DT, force palm and the landing lag from a u-air, thats it. Theres very few reasons to use those attacks though. Theres rarely, if ever a need to use them in a match.

and he doesnt have character-specific combos... it cant be Lucario

 

[kal2000]

Ike!
definitely dependent on spacing
punishable attacks and can punish as well

I'm not quite sure about combos, but I'm sure Ike has some character-specific combos somewhere.

And I guess his range would help him a lot for shield-pressuring?

I'd say Ike fits the hint perfectly except for the combo part, but I'm sure there are some Ike combos.

DK seems good too

 

[The Star King]

Mic 128 confirmed that the SBR will discuss PT as one character when the time comes.

Ivysaur deconfirmed! (not a real word Smashboards...)

 

[Trapt497]

F-smash is a horrible move, agreed on by pretty much every ZSS main; the lag is just too long and the knockback not high enough to compensate (nearly 40 frames of no hitboxes at the end and doesn't KO until 149%). Also, the back hitboxes on f-smash are nearly useless, because in all honesty, when are you going to f-smash in the opposite direction of your opponent? Her u-tilt is insanely punishable as she has this elaborate break-dancing maneuver she does after she kicks the opponent. Her grab animation is nearly 1.5 seconds long and doesn't have hitboxes out for less than half of that. Don't even get me started on her d-air, I hate it.

Ok, so the knockback doesn't help at all. But does the huge range and backwards range not contribute to spacing, like this character does? I mean, if someone tries to roll around the forward smash the backwards range helps keep her from getting punished. It's not useless, is it?...

Ok, ok, I guess your right. I just got pwnd...>.< lol. It still could be her though.

Oh! I just thought of something! Before I didn't think it was DK, but...he is great at spacing with a lot of his moves, correct? And he has the most unusual combo in the game!!! side b>d-taunt>neutral b!!!!

what...
narrow hitboxes? lucario is the master of non-linear hitboxes. utilt, fsmash, usmash and all his aerials have crazy huge hitboxes that either cover his entire body or extend huge arcs to protect him.

his laggy attacks are usmash, dsmash, DT, force palm and the landing lag from a u-air, thats it. Theres very few reasons to use those attacks though. Theres rarely, if ever a need to use them in a match.

and he doesnt have character-specific combos... it cant be Lucario

dj, the fsmash is a laggy attack, it has ending lag, first off. Second, that thing has soo much freakin range. The u-smash's odd hitbox throws people off. And FP contributes to unusual combos. And what do you mean 'character specific' combos? Unless we are thinking of a different kind of combo I think Lucario has a ton.

 

[TheStig]

next week is jigglypuff?

 

[zaf]

could next week be marth? he is very dependent on spacing. When you make a mistake he punishes you, very hard =[..

he also punishes shields with shield breaker,

just my 2 cents

 

[ph00tbag]

Ok, so the knockback doesn't help at all. But does the huge range and backwards range not contribute to spacing, like this character does? I mean, if someone tries to roll around the forward smash the backwards range helps keep her from getting punished. It's not useless, is it?...

The extent of this move's range in front of and behind Samus is two weak hitboxes which are so weak your opponent can punish you before you're done with the Smash, and charging has no effect on them. Next hitbox in is moderately strong, but its strength and damage are unaffected by charging, thus is only useful without charging, and in every situation, Plasma Whip is better. The only useful part of the move has horrible range, and takes forever to charge. It's just a bad move. It just is.

 

[Gkryptonite]

It's obviously DK guys. A lot of your guesses are good but DK is NOTHING BUT spacing and punishment.

 

[Grunt]

If you think it's Marth, you're obviously missing the "Most of this character's attacks are punishable" part.

Ike and DK are way more possible than Marth

 

[GodAtHand]

I guess Olimar

 

[Contrary]

I say DK also!

 

[mr.fizwidget]

i think pika might be a good secondary for my falco

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

Thought it was Ike (I really want to see what's said about him) until the "good shield pressure" part.

I'm thinking it's DK.

 

[Browny]

dj, the fsmash is a laggy attack, it has ending lag, first off. Second, that thing has soo much freakin range. The u-smash's odd hitbox throws people off. And FP contributes to unusual combos. And what do you mean 'character specific' combos? Unless we are thinking of a different kind of combo I think Lucario has a ton.

its laggy, but its unpunishable. no character in the game has a roll-dodge longer than the fsmash range, if its countered, it doesnt hit lucario, and it lingers for such a long time if anyone slower than MK tries to run up and dash attack after the attack is over lucario can put up his shield, it has very little ending lag

 

[Jibbles]

If you think it's Marth, you're obviously missing the "Most of this character's attacks are punishable" part.

Most of Marth's attacks are punishable without proper spacing.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

At what times could Shiek possibly have an advantage over Zelda when it comes to KO power. Zeldas utilt is stronger than all of shieks KO moves lol

shiek is MUCH MUCH better at gimping and edgeguarding most charcters where that's a legitimate strategy, and has a MUCH better approach game...

try Zelda vs Ike... then try Shiek Vs. Ike.

 

[Frate]

shiek is MUCH MUCH better at gimping and edgeguarding most charcters where that's a legitimate strategy, and has a MUCH better approach game...

try Zelda vs Ike... then try Shiek Vs. Ike.

tilt lock?

 

[Samsquamptch]

I haven't played DK too much, but can't you shield grab a good portion of his attacks because of his lack of disjointed hitboxes?
That would seem to take away the shield pressure hint.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

tilt lock?

that's more used to **** fox, falco, wolves and other shieks... but, yes... you can essentially "tilt catch" ike (he doesn't quite stay stuck in it as bad as the space animals or shiek) but he DOES get caught into it and it CAN be chained into a smash.

but shiek just completely counters Ike. Massive speed allows shiek to get inside ike the second there's an opening, and his heavy weight allows shiek, already a good juggler, to just wrack up the damage.

Needles destroy quickdraw as a viable approach, chain easily edgehogs, nair, fair and bair all edgeguard exceptionally well.

really, if shiek doesn't make many mistakes, it's an AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL matchup for any ike... so what if you can kill shiek at low damages.... it doesn't matter if you can't connect with your attacks.

So what if shiek can't knock you off the edge until you have massive damage? it doesn't matter if shiek can gimp your recovery the moment you get knocked off.

 

[Browny]

so i heard this wasnt the matchup thread