Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!

[Tenki]

I beriv it is Aiku

I don't know.

This one screams Ike to me.

 

[JCaesar]

Ike for sure

 

[Martial]

Bowser, maybe?

 

[Hit973]

definitely yoshi

 

[AgentAO]

I was going to say Sonic, then I saw the edge guarding part and "effective smashes". Being punished easily sounds like Ike, so I'm going with him.

 

[Vaerix]

I vote Bowser too. Klaw/slam and fortress seem to be essential and f-tilt catches MK out of a lot of approaches.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

wait. WAIT. did Ike become a secret mk counter when i wasnt looking? O.O

 

[ph00tbag]

The beginning of this hint screams Yoshi to me, but then it got to the bit about specials, and I had to question it. Ike and Bowser seem to fit, too. The big question is can either of them perform well against MK.

 

[Tenki]

I don't see the Yoshi boards going around and saying that he has no potential. I mean, he has Draconic Reverse and all.

Ike boards even had it somewhere at one point that all you see in Ike is all you'll ever see. Quickdraw, Eruption and Counter are generally deemed useless (though IMO Eruption is pretty useful). His tilts are good - if they hit. His aerials are super punishable, and one mistake (eg, missed approaching F-air) and you can get grabbed.

Jiggly, meh, there are good Jiggly players out there. `.`; Aside from smart aerial movements, I don't really see alot of 'development' in that area, so it might be. However, I rarely see Jigglypuff mains tilt, so I don't think so.

 

[Krayn]

Next week is Lucario.

 

[Tenki]

wait. WAIT. did Ike become a secret mk counter when i wasnt looking? O.O

He didn't.

But he does outrange MK sometimes.

PS, random video I remember watching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED0uCdKtqUk

 

[eskimo bob]

lol @ the people that thought it was gonna be zamus, but I can't be to rude since I'll admit it did seem somewhat like it.

at first I was thinking shiek, but then it should've said something about her inability to kill and it also said that some of the characters smashes are good so I'm thinking bowser. he doesn't do too bad against mk, has good smashes and an almost useless special (bowser bomb thingie) and can be easily edgeguarded. it can't be ike since he's pretty horrible against mk (bowser is somewhat faster and weighs a lot more.)

this was a hard hint for sure. probably the hardest one yet.

 

[ph00tbag]

I don't see the Yoshi boards going around and saying that he has no potential. I mean, he has Draconic Reverse and all.

Yoshi mains have been notorious for being about as zealous about their character as Ness mains since Melee, at least. No Yoshi main with any pride would admit that Yoshi may not be viable. The opinion of outside players and other competitors matters, too, though. Most non-Yoshi mains have a great deal of contempt for Yoshi.

It still comes down to how his specials are at all useful. Egg Throw is probably his most useful for purposes of projectile spam, but other than that, they're not super awesome.

Ike boards even had it somewhere at one point that all you see in Ike is all you'll ever see. Quickdraw, Eruption and Counter are generally deemed useless (though IMO Eruption is pretty useful). His tilts are good - if they hit. His aerials are super punishable, and one mistake (eg, missed approaching F-air) and you can get grabbed.

Deeming Eruption useless is pretty stupid, IMO. I'd say QD has its uses, too. Counter may be one of those "surprises" Panda is talking about.

The big question is how Ike could possibly be an MK main. I don't really know many people who would say MK has trouble against Ike.

As for Bowser, he has similarly punishable aerials, good tilts, good smashes, effective specials, etc. The issue he has is the same as Ike: I haven't seen many say he's good against MK.

I think I can narrow it down to these three, but it's hard to really make a definitive choice.

 

[Tenki]

to reiterate...

Update #17: ?????

8/04/08

Many people are convinced that this character has no potential, and have barely put time into learning the character. But it seems a select few have seen this character's potential, and are taking it to the next level. Surprisingly enough, this character may even have the potential to put up a fight against characters like MK, but not many people would attest to that. With effective tilts, smashes, and aerials that can be punished if missed or blocked, you should make every attack with this character count. This character also has some specials that are not simply good, but are nearly essential to using this character well, and can be used for catching the opponent by surprise. Even with all of these attributes, taking this character to the next level requires skill, patience, and consistency. A single mistake can put you on the defensive for quite a while, and could even lead to your death if the opponent is good at edgeguarding.

Can you guess who next week's character is?

Ike boards had a handful of debates saying that Ike's metagame was at a standstill and there aren't any AT's for him. As such, "many people are convinced that this character has no potential".

@ MK fight: see video.

Slow attacks, generally with punishable lag? Ike. Little space for missed moves, unless missed deliberately.

Specials:
Aether has horrid landing lag. Miss= punishd.
Quickdraw has post-attack lag issues, and shouldn't be used too often as a recovery due to easy gimping.
Counter is slow, but it's good to throw it in there once in a while.
Eruption is actually a pretty good move, with deceptive range and 'guaranteed KO' at 120+ for most characters, and super armor frames. Definitely good surprise factor if you have control over its super armor.

Certain characters that are good at edgeguarding (eg, Sonic) can gimp Ike too easily. I've nailed a few 20-40% kills on some Ike players using simple things like spring gimps and low trajectories after a double jump.

 

[Foxtrotter]

I bet that next week will be Lucario. Aura Sphere and Force Palm are pretty much essential to playing him, and his aerials can be punished if dodged.

 

[LosKnoggos]

either ganon or jigglypuff.

 

[ph00tbag]

What video?

Oh that video.

 

[Tenki]

either ganon or jigglypuff.

except Jigglies don't have an exceptional ground game (wut? ask a jiggly main how often they use tilts)

and Ganon's already been discussed.

Edit:
sorry, didn't link to it in that post, but it was linked to a few posts earlier.
Ike vs MK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED0uCdKtqUk

Yeah, it's a water level, with water spikes all over, but it's still impressive.

 

[Doctor X]

Luigi, I say.... though due to the "missed aerials" thing I'm not too confident in my guess.

 

[ph00tbag]

except Jigglies don't have an exceptional ground game (wut? ask a jiggly main how often they use tilts)

and Ganon's already been discussed.

Edit:
sorry, didn't link to it in that post, but it was linked to a few posts earlier.
Ike vs MK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED0uCdKtqUk

Yeah, it's a water level, with water spikes all over, but it's still impressive.

I dunno, it's also a CP stage. I'd like to see how Ike does on a neutral stage against MK.

 

[Jigglymaster]

This is not Jigglypuff.

1. Jigglypuff can't beat MK.
2. Dosn't use tilts often.
3. "you should make every attack with this character count." Jigglypuff does many missed aireals for spacing. Jiggs dosn't get punished if he misses an arieal.
4. "and could even lead to your death if the opponent is good at edgeguarding. " Jigglypuff isn't normally edgegaurded.

 

[Zook]

This just screams 'Yoshi' to me.

"Why Yoshi have to go to bed so soon?"

"Well, like they say in Brooklyn... The bagel."

 

[Sonic527]

Its either Yoshi or Ike but since I think people do see potential in Ike I guess it's Yoshi.

 

[payasofobia]

Its either Yoshi or Ike but since I think people do see potential in Ike I guess it's Yoshi.

Noone sees potential in ike, not even the Ike boards.

 

[EvolveOrDie]

My brain keeps screaming at me that it's olimar.
I don't know why it just seems that way.

 

[HeoandReo]

I'm gonna go a bit off the path of the responses so far and say Donkey Kong. It's the first thing I thought of when I read the hint in its entirety. I don't play DK much myself, and there's some things that I'm not sure about, but bear with me.


"Many people are convinced that this character has no potential, and have barely put time into learning the character. But it seems a select few have seen this character's potential, and are taking it to the next level. "

When Donkey Kong was revealed, many generally thought that he was the same as always, and thus, not many people played him. After some time, though, they discovered potential in him and started using him more, if looking at the DK boards over time showed me anything.


"Surprisingly enough, this character may even have the potential to put up a fight against characters like MK, but not many people would attest to that. "

Last I checked in the matchup chart, DK had at a least decent matchup against MK and several other characters considered to be higher tiered.

(Currently the matchup chart gives him an advantage against the 'Big Two', Meta Knight and Snake.)


"With effective tilts, smashes, and aerials that can be punished if missed or blocked, you should make every attack with this character count. "

All of these types of attacks are effective with DK. While the tilts are good for spacing, and the smashes are good for killing, it seems that any lag can be punishable, and DK being a large target doesn't help matters.


"This character also has some specials that are not simply good, but are nearly essential to using this character well, and can be used for catching the opponent by surprise. "

Giant Punch, anyone? Spinning Kong also has some use. (I hate the new lag at the end of it, though, and the fact it can no longer go backwards.)


"Even with all of these attributes, taking this character to the next level requires skill, patience, and consistency. A single mistake can put you on the defensive for quite a while, and could even lead to your death if the opponent is good at edgeguarding."

Not sure about this one. I know that while Spinning Kong is improved, a good spike can still send DK to his demise easily. Don't know about the mistake part, because I'm sure DK has quick enough attacks he can use to get out of such a situation. (tilts)

Other than that, though, I guess it will be DK next week.

 

[AtotheZ]

After seeing PRiDE at FAST 1, I'm gonna have to say yoshi

 

[Stealth Raptor]

I am sorry this seems to fail at the no potnetial. DK is at the moment a very good char, and MANY people see that not a select few. yes the mk counter fits very well, but other then that it just doesnt fit very well.

 

[Tenki]

It really leans towards Ike more than any other character.

Yoshi boards are at least like "hay guys! how 2 do Draconic Reverse??" and at least have that chain grab-release.

DK has a bunch of odd matchups and strategies/moves (stage spike, etc) so people do suspect and expect good things from him.

Ike?

Noone sees potential in ike, not even the Ike boards.

 

[NxC]

Many people are convinced that this character has no potential, and have barely put time into learning the character.

Most people think that Pit is an arrow-spamming noob character. The Pit boards are held together by a handful of avid players.

But it seems a select few have seen this character's potential, and are taking it to the next level.

We sure have.

Surprisingly enough, this character may even have the potential to put up a fight against characters like MK, but not many people would attest to that.

Pit eats Snakes for breakfast and gimps other character's recoveries like it's no one's business.

With effective tilts, smashes,

F-Tilt, F-Smash and D-smash are our kill moves. U-tilt and d-tilt are extremely useful, as well. I'm also part of a very small group that loves u-smash to pieces.

and aerials that can be punished if missed or blocked, you should make every attack with this character count.

b-air is our best kill move, and we can wall of pain with f-air. D-air has a ton of lag if you miss and connect with the ground, same with f-air. Our other aerials aren't THAT laggy...

This character also has some specials that are not simply good, but are nearly essential to using this character well,

I don't think I need to explain how this ties to Pit.

and can be used for catching the opponent by surprise.

About 80% of our "ATs" are mind games.

Even with all of these attributes, taking this character to the next level requires skill, patience, and consistency.

Pit is easy to learn but difficult to master.

A single mistake can put you on the defensive for quite a while, and could even lead to your death if the opponent is good at edgeguarding.

WoI gimping: it's scary as ****.

Can you guess who next week's character is?

Yes.

 

[Forsworn]

If I was a betting man, I'd go for Yoshi.

 

[Mmac]

Many people are convinced that this character has no potential, and have barely put time into learning the character.

This almost screams Yoshi. I mean, really, People say he has no potential all the time

But it seems a select few have seen this character's potential, and are taking it to the next level.

Dragonic Reversing, QDS Pivots, ECE's, ETS's, Along with various other techniques. I say that's taking it to the next level...

Surprisingly enough, this character may even have the potential to put up a fight against characters like MK, but not many people would attest to that.

Again, This is also Yoshi. Yoshi actually has an evenish matchup against MetaKnight, and does ok against the other Higher Tier characters (Dedede, Wario, and even Snake).

With effective tilts, smashes, and aerials that can be punished if missed or blocked, you should make every attack with this character count.

And this is what gets me. With this quote alone, it seem to completely shifted from Yoshi, to Ike. Yoshi's Tilts, Smashes, and Airs are good, but only a few of them (Ftilt, Fsmash, Dsmash, Fair), are the only non Special attacks that he can be punished from if missed/shielded. While all of Ike's can be punished.

This character also has some specials that are not simply good, but are nearly essential to using this character well, and can be used for catching the opponent by surprise.

This seems to drift more towards Yoshi again than Ike. Both of them are not impressive in their own right, but still need to use them for their game. Yoshi's UpB Eggs are a good and versatile, and work best as an Anti-Air, Counter-Projectile, or to force non-Projectile users into the offencive. DownB on the ground can really be surprising, especially if they are in the air. And it works extremely well point blank. Egg Roll is pretty bad, but it can still catch people off guard, and it can help as an escape tactic. Egg Lay just... sucks.

Aether does work pretty well, and can actually work quite well against people in the air. Quick Draw can sometimes catch people off guard if used right. Counter works good as... well... a Counter, and Eruption can also work pretty well if used right

Even with all of these attributes, taking this character to the next level requires skill, patience, and consistency.

While Yoshi is much harder to use at first, Ike doesn't really require much. only when you move into serious play is where you need to step things up with him. It could be either.

A single mistake can put you on the defensive for quite a while, and could even lead to your death if the opponent is good at edgeguarding.

Again, this is completely an Ike Quote. And Edgeguarding, Ike has it much worse than Yoshi when it comes to recovery, and even worse against Edgeguarders.

Only problem I see, Is that I don't know how Ike fairs well against MetaKnight, and the other Higher Tier Characters

 

[Zero_Gamer]

It does sound a bit like Lucario, his DownB, UpB, and OverB suck, but they are essential. UpB is still a decent recovery and OverB can be combo'd from his jabs after canceling the first or second jab. Although, his attacks aren't easily punished, Fsmash has too much range and his Fair combos into any other aerial he wishes to use and Lucario can always do the Fair --> Footstool Jump Cancel Dair on a shielded opponent. A lot of people see potential in him too, so I doubt it's him. Pretty much, only the Specials part is true-ish, the rest is proof enough that it isn't Lucario.

I'd go with Yoshi over DK, because DK's popularity is rising pretty well and Yoshi's is not.

Edit: or Ike, Ike gets screwed over by edgeguarding, but I don't think he can deal with Meta Knight very well, if at all.

 

[Mmac]

I don't see the Yoshi boards going around and saying that he has no potential. I mean, he has Draconic Reverse and all.

But how many Non-Yoshi user's say that he has potential? I see all the time about people saying that he has no potential. Hell, I still hear people who say that he's the Worse Character in the game!

 

[GoForkUrself]

Ike. He fits all the descriptions. I got the last one right with Marth, so I am going to try to get a streak going.

 

[hotgarbage]

yoshi? Heck if I know.

 

[comboking]

ike

10 ikes

 

[Grunt]

Yoshi
10yoshi

 

[MiraiGen]

Probably Ike.

If you're careful you can keep people at bay with his range and power and KO at low percents. For Metaknight, outranging and outpowering is exactly what destroys him cause he's so light.

 

[Xsyven]

I'm guessing DK.